I did read them and I explained why you are wrong. Even if there were hostile alien forces out to destroy us, further overpopulating the planet will not help avoid being exterminated by their advanced weaponry and we will probably ruin our own civilisation by implementing your plan.valerytozer said:
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world population and ET
- Thread starter valerytozer
- Start date
Thomas Doubting
New Member
Aught3 said:
Don't say that! We could offer them few billion people as slaves for their home planet if they leave us alone.. or something like that. Also we could fling more feces at them if they don't accept.
@valerytozer
I can only suggest you to be more precise and to try to make more sense... otherwise you will only get your butt handed to you.
valerytozer
New Member
Family Planning , or Planed Parenthood AKA The Washer machine (in South NJ )
if they had there way , I would not be here, nor all of my children,
there are so many times i went there, they were
Religious people, who want you not to have sex, use condoms in emergency when "you can't control yourself"
who said the world was to populated and and if you needed to have an abortion they would not help you,
till you have proven to them the babies would not live, so if you were "disabled then you can't have babies"
Then they had no problems helping you, it made me feel like shit.
No one has the right to tell anyone if they can have an abortion or not.
just the same no one should be allow to tell you should not have babies.
witch Leeds me to my other point
1.
have a child or not, well if, the child was alive, there is a Chance for that child you cure aids, cancer, ect..
but if that child never born, we will never know.
2.
that child could invent some thing like the the replicator, or a shield of sat-lights around the earth with an advanced weapon, new engine to get to mars.
but if that child never born, we will never know.
3.
life is a rare commodity on the universe. (Humanoid lifeforms)
4.
that child will grow up and one day save you life,
but if that child never born, we will never know.
5.
the whole reason we are here is to pass on our our DNA, to evolve better then what we are today, but if we don't have babies.
Family Planning , or Planed Parenthood AKA The Washer machine (in South NJ ) like religion, It dose not belong shoving its ideas, into others.
if someone wants or dose not want to have a child, No one has the right to interfere in that, the default should be, fuck have babies.
if you watch my videos on youtube you will understand where i am coming from, when i get my new cam i will be making new videos about this issue. i cannot type very well, it took me 3hr to type this.
if they had there way , I would not be here, nor all of my children,
there are so many times i went there, they were
Religious people, who want you not to have sex, use condoms in emergency when "you can't control yourself"
who said the world was to populated and and if you needed to have an abortion they would not help you,
till you have proven to them the babies would not live, so if you were "disabled then you can't have babies"
Then they had no problems helping you, it made me feel like shit.
No one has the right to tell anyone if they can have an abortion or not.
just the same no one should be allow to tell you should not have babies.
witch Leeds me to my other point
1.
have a child or not, well if, the child was alive, there is a Chance for that child you cure aids, cancer, ect..
but if that child never born, we will never know.
2.
that child could invent some thing like the the replicator, or a shield of sat-lights around the earth with an advanced weapon, new engine to get to mars.
but if that child never born, we will never know.
3.
life is a rare commodity on the universe. (Humanoid lifeforms)
4.
that child will grow up and one day save you life,
but if that child never born, we will never know.
5.
the whole reason we are here is to pass on our our DNA, to evolve better then what we are today, but if we don't have babies.
Family Planning , or Planed Parenthood AKA The Washer machine (in South NJ ) like religion, It dose not belong shoving its ideas, into others.
if someone wants or dose not want to have a child, No one has the right to interfere in that, the default should be, fuck have babies.
if you watch my videos on youtube you will understand where i am coming from, when i get my new cam i will be making new videos about this issue. i cannot type very well, it took me 3hr to type this.
Welshidiot
New Member
@valerytozerThomas Doubting said:
This is true, but if it starts to happen you can always deny everything you've said, and then accuse others of doing exactly what you did in the first place.
Thomas Doubting
New Member
I know what you are pointing at, can only suggest you to read more thoroughly and use your brain to analyze what was said instead of just interpreting it and twisting their words around and to mock them and give them shit. Just a friendly tip.
australopithecus
Active Member
valerytozer said:
Massive assumption.
Massive assumption.
Massive assumption. Also, there is nothing special about the human form, most life gets on quite well without it.
Massive assumption.
It's a reason, not THE reason. Besides, "better" is relative.
There are too many people as it is, we don't need more. More is over rated.
Thomas Doubting
New Member
if we have to imagine what would have been with all the people who were not born.. we would have to start thinking about all the sperm which never even reached the egg of a female and think about what would happen if they all were born.. And of course we can turn it around and ask things like "how many more 'Hitlers' could have been born without abortion blabla"
In short, such "what ifs" are ridiculous.
In short, such "what ifs" are ridiculous.
Laurens
New Member
valerytozer said:
That person could also become a serial killer, what is your point?
I don't get what you're trying to say by appealing to what a child might or might not do. Millions of men world wide masturbate every day and leave billions of sperm cells on a tissue or a crusty sock - each of which could potentially have become a person and could potentially have cured AIDS or cancer, but they didn't, so what?
How do you know that? Without having encountered life from other planets, how do you know that the universe isn't teaming with humanoid lifeforms?
The problem is that there are too many people on this planet. We currently have a population of around 7 billion - already a large amount of people who do not have enough food and water. The population, if current trends continue is set to rise to 9 billion by 2050 - the resources on this planet simply will not be able to support this many people. The best thing we can do to ensure that there is not a pandemic of thirst and starvation in the not too distant future is to educate and encourage people to have smaller families.
:roll: Enough of this already...
Technically yes. However, our species is intelligent and self aware (for the most part) and we have realised that if we continue to consume resources and continue to increase in number we're fucked - but thankfully we have the intelligence to make responsible decisions and do something about it.
We need to do as much as possible to make people aware that having large families is not a responsible decision if we don't want to live in a world in which a huge number of people will not have access to enough food and water. Whilst I agree that no one should be forced to do anything - I do not think that family planning clinics ever do this. If someone does or doesn't want a child it is indeed their choice, however it is important that people are educated about the implications of their decisions - and that is what family planning clinics do. Responsibly informing people about their decisions in life is not the same as interfering and shoving ideas down peoples throats.
EDIT: Watch this http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/how-many-people-can-live-on-planet-earth/ - you might understand why its important to be responsible about the number of children you have.
The real reason that this 'They could grow up to do X' is at the very least misleading is that inventions are not created in a vacuum. They are not the product of a genius' epiphany, but rather the product of an age of minds all coalescing around an idea with perhaps an especially brilliant individual to just go the last steps to actually come out with the thing it's self, but in almost ALL instances of great technological advancements, it's actually a race between several competing groups or individuals to develop the technology first.
If there was no Alexander Graham Bell, there would still be telephones. He was one of something like 8 people all working on it at the same time, his was just the first patent to be made. Einstein was not the only guy working on relativity and besides, all the ground work had been done already, it just took an Einstein to put it all together.
This doesn't take away from the individual achievements, but it should contextualize them. There's a reason that steam power never took off in the ancient world when it was first discovered. There was no wealthy middle class at the time. There were the powerful land owners and everyone else, the vast majority being the slaves of the land owning few. When you are an agrarian society, slave labor is hundreds of times more efficient for doing the kinds of things that steam replaces. They had Triremes to putter around the Mediterranean which could go faster than a steam ship, were powered by slave labor and didn't have the unfortunate backside of occasionally lighting themselves on fire and exploding. There was no textile industry which steam could enhance. The notion of overland transportation by rail would have seemed like science fiction to them if such a thing existed... which it didn't. There was no infrastructure to mine coal so you'd have to power these things with charcoal which is HIGHLY labor intensive to produce and was needed for iron age steel production. You'd never been able to produce the quantities of coal from charcoal that you'd need to power a boiler.
So when it was discovered in ancient Alexandria that you could make things turn by heating up water they thought "Huh, isn't that neat..." and left it at that. It took an industrial revolution to actually take that discovery and turn it into a thing that anyone would think note worthy which wouldn't come for another millennia and a half, give or take a century or two.
If there was no Alexander Graham Bell, there would still be telephones. He was one of something like 8 people all working on it at the same time, his was just the first patent to be made. Einstein was not the only guy working on relativity and besides, all the ground work had been done already, it just took an Einstein to put it all together.
This doesn't take away from the individual achievements, but it should contextualize them. There's a reason that steam power never took off in the ancient world when it was first discovered. There was no wealthy middle class at the time. There were the powerful land owners and everyone else, the vast majority being the slaves of the land owning few. When you are an agrarian society, slave labor is hundreds of times more efficient for doing the kinds of things that steam replaces. They had Triremes to putter around the Mediterranean which could go faster than a steam ship, were powered by slave labor and didn't have the unfortunate backside of occasionally lighting themselves on fire and exploding. There was no textile industry which steam could enhance. The notion of overland transportation by rail would have seemed like science fiction to them if such a thing existed... which it didn't. There was no infrastructure to mine coal so you'd have to power these things with charcoal which is HIGHLY labor intensive to produce and was needed for iron age steel production. You'd never been able to produce the quantities of coal from charcoal that you'd need to power a boiler.
So when it was discovered in ancient Alexandria that you could make things turn by heating up water they thought "Huh, isn't that neat..." and left it at that. It took an industrial revolution to actually take that discovery and turn it into a thing that anyone would think note worthy which wouldn't come for another millennia and a half, give or take a century or two.
valerytozer
New Member
ok I watched that video.
I did not know about that. or think about it.
I understand and I Retract my statement. I Am sorry.
But , I am confused (i know that seems easy to do),
If we inform everyone about this, over population issue, and they don't Liston, then what?
Do we implement a 1 child policy? and how would we regulate it?
And i am probably wrong on this but, isn't this like what Hitler did? and what can we do to prevent something like that from happening?
I did not know about that. or think about it.
I understand and I Retract my statement. I Am sorry.
But , I am confused (i know that seems easy to do),
If we inform everyone about this, over population issue, and they don't Liston, then what?
Do we implement a 1 child policy? and how would we regulate it?
And i am probably wrong on this but, isn't this like what Hitler did? and what can we do to prevent something like that from happening?
valerytozer
New Member
I know what you are pointing at, can only suggest you to read more thoroughly and use your brain to analyze what was said instead of just interpreting it and twisting their words around and to mock them and give them shit. Just a friendly tip
I have a learning disability and i am trying to under things, i have also been, sheltered, abused and lied to about just about everything, so i am trying
So why am I here ?
I am trying to learn.
I have a learning disability and i am trying to under things, i have also been, sheltered, abused and lied to about just about everything, so i am trying
So why am I here ?
I am trying to learn.
Laurens
New Member
valerytozer said:
The main things we can do:
1. Make contraception easily available to everyone
2. Educate people
3. Stop the oppression of women (allowing women to get a decent education decreases the likelihood of them having huge families, as stated in the doc)
I don't think we need to implement any specific policies to stop people from having more than one child. I'd like to think that people are intelligent enough to be responsible, once they have been given a full education on the implications of their decisions. I'd say education is the important factor here, plus access to contraception.
Thomas Doubting
New Member
valerytozer said:
Sorry mate, i was replying to Welshidiot, that one had nothing to do with you directly.
Master_Ghost_Knight
New Member
valerytozer said:
The reason why I have asked was because you seem to display an unusualy naive character.
Despite your claimed aged and experience with the world, you seem to think that the entire extent of human activity and requiered biomass necessary to sustain it can be sumarized to a plot of land, never mind the entire dinamics of expertise, ressources, industry, economics, society, relations, technology, suport structures, contigencies and so on and so forth. Real life is much more complicated than a plot of land.
Is the world over populated? Absolutly. Our current activity is beyound any sustainable levels, and in particular the world today is closer to the brink of starvation then what would be confortable. You have no idea how things can go very ugly very fast and there is nothing we can do because there are so many people.
And yeah what you have pointed out is pseudo-tech hogh wash, what you have pointed out is what we usualy call a ploter, they are predecessors of modern printers where drawings were made by a mechanical harm grabing an actual regular pen and sketching. The technology is older than you. And there is a reason why we do not plot objects the way they have presented, because we can do it faster, cheaper, better and with mechanical properties, structural properties and quality finish that you could have never achieve by ploting. Such a device would not bring anything new that we can not do light years better today.
I would advise you to save your money, because this utopian pitch is what we usually call a scam, it is a scam to decieve people out of their money by convincing them that they are helping improving some futuristic technology that actualy doesn't ammount to nothing more than a party trick. I guarantee you if it was any good, then all major industries would be on top of it making money like crazy out of this thing.
Anachronous Rex
New Member
Not saying that movies are necessarily the best sources when attempting a serious discussion of extraterrestrial life, but as thought experiments they can be useful. For instance:
Anyone here ever watch Skyline?
Not a particularly good movie, indeed I would go so far as to call it a pretty crap movie, the premise of which is that the aliens are invading Earth and stealing all its people. Their apparent motivation for all this is that they seem to need our brains to run their machinery (and why not? Our brains our very capable computers after all, and so easily reprogrammed... oh wait.)
Now on the off chance we find ourselves up against something like these aliens, increasing our population will probably only bring the axe down that much sooner.
Or there's the Screwfly Solution.
Slightly better movie, this time aliens hit humanity with a virus designed to decimate our population by confusing the circuits of sexual arousal in human males with those that produce violent behavior. Thus, in a matter of months, half the world's population turns into Ted Bundy. Their motivation? Not entirely clear, but we're lead to believe that their concerned for the fate of our ecosystem.
Again, increasing our population would be a mistake here.
I could go on, but the point I'm trying to get across here is that if we're going to allow for the sort of leaps of logic that you, valerytozer, were throwing around so casually earlier, we're not likely to arrive at a coherent strategy for dealing with ET. In the meantime I suggest doing what is in the best interest of our species in purely terrestrial terms, which is to say reign in our population before it gets us into even more trouble.
Anyone here ever watch Skyline?
Not a particularly good movie, indeed I would go so far as to call it a pretty crap movie, the premise of which is that the aliens are invading Earth and stealing all its people. Their apparent motivation for all this is that they seem to need our brains to run their machinery (and why not? Our brains our very capable computers after all, and so easily reprogrammed... oh wait.)
Now on the off chance we find ourselves up against something like these aliens, increasing our population will probably only bring the axe down that much sooner.
Or there's the Screwfly Solution.
Slightly better movie, this time aliens hit humanity with a virus designed to decimate our population by confusing the circuits of sexual arousal in human males with those that produce violent behavior. Thus, in a matter of months, half the world's population turns into Ted Bundy. Their motivation? Not entirely clear, but we're lead to believe that their concerned for the fate of our ecosystem.
Again, increasing our population would be a mistake here.
I could go on, but the point I'm trying to get across here is that if we're going to allow for the sort of leaps of logic that you, valerytozer, were throwing around so casually earlier, we're not likely to arrive at a coherent strategy for dealing with ET. In the meantime I suggest doing what is in the best interest of our species in purely terrestrial terms, which is to say reign in our population before it gets us into even more trouble.
Welshidiot
New Member
@ Dean
"Hominid"?
"Hominid"?
From the looks of it, to me, it might actually be quite a funny film, and intended so. I too am deeply concerned with human caused destruction of our ecosystem. I am quite interested in environmentalist ethics. The fossil-fool economy needs to end soon if we want a route of escape, plus hominid population growth needs to be greatly diminished. Perhaps our governments could even pass laws restricting humans to 1 child per family. That could work. (And on a more voluntary basis, it is for that exact reason that I personally chose to have a vasectomy, as "rad" as that may sound.Anachronous Rex said:
)P.S.: Interesting topic. How did I miss all of this? :|
You may have noticed that I have a tendency to use that term interchangeably with Homo. S. "Sapiens". And I know that this usage of the term ignores chimps and Bonobos, etc. The other primates that belong to that group. However, that term is intended to reflect back. We could do far better than all the rest of the great ape family, and some of us actually do, but that doesn't change the fact that the net result of the subspecies Homo. S. "Sapiens" is dismal.Welshidiot said: