With regards to shanedk and MasterGhostKnight

[Blog of Reason]

Discussion thread for the blog entry "With regards to shanedk and MasterGhostKnight" by AndromedasWake.

Permalink: http://blog.leagueofreason.org.uk/youtube/with-regards-to-shanedk-and-masterghostknight/

 

[GegoXAREN]

Discussion thread for the blog entry "With regards to shanedk and MasterGhostKnight" by AndromedasWake.

Permalink: http://www.leagueofreason.org.uk/youtube/with-regards-to-shanedk-and-masterghostknight/

+1
that is all...
but YT hates me so i am not going to watch the video ^_^

 

[rabbitpirate]

I think this is very well put TK. LoR is a place where anyone can put forward their opinion, no matter how stupid, wrong or disagreeable that opinion may be. But it is important to remember that those opinions belong to the people making them and not to the LoR as a whole.

I am really sorry that Shane had a bad experience here and hope that he won't hold it against all of us. I really enjoy his vidoes and agree with most, but not all, of the things he says. I would like to add that he is always welcome here and I believe he could bring an interesting take to almost any subject.

This whole thing makes me rather sad.

 

[shanedk]

The following will be reposted over at the Bogosity.TV forums; feel free to come and discuss it there if further discussion here is undesirable.

I'd like to thank AndromedasWake for his comments. I'd also like to take this opportunity to apologize for my error stating that the video was in any way sanctioned by the League of Reason site.

I would, however, like to criticize a few things he said in his post:

MasterGhostKnight did not post his video under the auspices of the League of Reason. In actuality, he posted a video with the logo attached. And that's it. Anyone is free to include the logo in their video, as it is intended merely to advertise the site to a wider audience...MasterGhostKnight is not a contributor. He is not listed as a contributor. Even if he was, videos made by him would not automatically reflect LoR policy.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you can have this both ways. How is someone supposed to know, when they see that opening, whether the video is an official release by the LoR as opposed to some luser with Windows Movie Maker who's just spitballing? It seems to me that, from this statement, you're wanting the additional recognition such use of the logo gives you while absolving yourself of any and all consequences stemming from its use.

Might I suggest a modified version, with some added text such as "an informal member of" at the top, to distinguish from actual LoR releases?

In his video, shanedk also accuses the site of being completely misnamed. Once again, I maintain that our contributors are strong proponents of reason...Our forum provides a facility for a wide variety of people with a wide variety of opinions to discuss and debate any topic they like. They are not required to do anything other than obey the forum rules, which permit the most zealous of unreasonable folk to make their case, provided it is not copypasta spam.

Then, with respect, it's not a League of Reason--it's a League of People Saying Whatever the Fuck They Want, and there are plenty of those on the internet!

A League of Reason should be just that: a place where free discussion can flourish without degeneration into pointless attacks and flame wars. With all the humility that comes from being such a small site (we currently have a mere 66 members, as opposed to the 3400+ of the LoR), I would suggest that Da Rules over at the Bogosity.TV forums are a much better model to keep these problems at bay while not stifling free speech. As someone who has been on the Internet since before it was called the Internet, I am very familiar with how these problems occur; flame wars and other forms of thread-killing are an impediment to free and open discussion, and should not be tolerated on any forum dedicated to reason.

By extension, one could suggest that the Richard Dawkins network message board is completely misnamed if any of the posters disagree with his beliefs and opinions, or to take it further if a single user is not called Richard Dawkins. This is clearly ridiculous.

I agree that your strawman version of my argument is ridiculous. Now, if I may fix your comparison so that it properly matches my argument, go to the RichardDawkinsDotNet channel on YouTube and look at one of the RDF-TV videos. Imagine that someone―say, a creationist―were to take that logo and put it in front of a video, where a very scientific-looking person was saying that there are no transitional fossils and that evolution violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Or, imagine that they did it to make a video saying something completely ridiculous, so they could use it to mock and discredit Dawkins later on. How would the Foundation respond to that? I hardly think they would be as blasé about it as you are.

So, while I offer my sincerest apologies for stating that a relationship existed where none did, I will not be returning to the League of Reason forums if all I can expect there is the same treatment I can get anywhere else on the internet.

 

[borrofburi]

MasterGhostKnight did not post his video under the auspices of the League of Reason. In actuality, he posted a video with the logo attached. And that's it. Anyone is free to include the logo in their video, as it is intended merely to advertise the site to a wider audience...MasterGhostKnight is not a contributor. He is not listed as a contributor. Even if he was, videos made by him would not automatically reflect LoR policy.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you can have this both ways. How is someone supposed to know, when they see that opening, whether the video is an official release by the LoR as opposed to some luser with Windows Movie Maker who's just spitballing? It seems to me that, from this statement, you're wanting the additional recognition such use of the logo gives you while absolving yourself of any and all consequences stemming from its use.

On the flipside how is LoR to police all instances of an image? Also, as far as I understand, there are no official LoR videos.

 

[shanedk]

On the flipside how is LoR to police all instances of an image? Also, as far as I understand, there are no official LoR videos.

Not even on the LeagueOfReasonTV channel?

 

[borrofburi]

On the flipside how is LoR to police all instances of an image? Also, as far as I understand, there are no official LoR videos.

Not even on the LeagueOfReasonTV channel?

Oh, huh. Well then on the flipside again, would it not be safe to assume that all "official" videos would appear on that channel?

You can point to RDF and say "they wouldn't allow use of their image/logo", but they are a business with much more resources, including copyright. Nevertheless, an "this is an advertisement" logo could use more identification as such.

 

[Aught3]

Having watched MGK's video I can see that it might be possible to mistake his video for one made by the league of reason. Although as a regular visitor to this site it was obvious to me that MGK's views were not endorsed by this website, a less frequent visitor might have made a mistake on this issue. One would hope that if the league of reason ever did start making videos they would be of slightly higher quality and I would doubt they would attack minor errors in someone else's video.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Since it appears that I was somewhat to cause to the LoR controversy. I do like to apologize that to have involved the name of the League of Reason, I do assure that my intentions was merely to advertise the board.
Although in my defense I would like to add that it is with great hypocrisy that ShaneDk comes back into this board trying to poison to people into vilifying my character and the League of Reason itself.
After the League of Reason assisted you on fighting your cases of censorship, and even after we (me included) helped you the first thing that you did was to criticize it. You know too damn well my position in regards to the league of reason, if I may remind you the reason why you left this forum was because of my criticism embarrassed you so hard that you have never set foot ever again until now. The posts have not been deleted; anyone can look for them if they want.
And in your pride in not admitting that a single person alone could have done it, you have blamed the LoR for it, and that is the official story that you tell to your viewers. Never did the collective of the League of Reason did you anything wrong, and yet you insist on vilifying it even before I posted any of my videos, and I can prove it with sources from your own forum:
http://www.bogosity.tv/forum/index.php?topic=174.0
http://www.bogosity.tv/forum/index.php?topic=321.0
You had no excuse to have done whatever you did.

The rest of the video was pretty much expected, and I will be answering in a couple of days. All I can assure you is that it will be quite funny.

 

[borrofburi]

the reason why you left this forum was because of my criticism embarrassed you so hard that you have never set foot ever again until now.
...
And in your pride in not admitting that a single person alone could have done it, you have blamed the LoR for it

Whether true or not, the way you phrase it brings the word "asshole" to mind.

 

[monitoradiation]

Then, with respect, it's not a League of Reason--it's a League of People Saying Whatever the Fuck They Want, and there are plenty of those on the internet!

That is only true insofar as we're able to filter out people saying only whateverthefucktheywant, versus people that have the intent of having a reasonable discussion. Surely you understand the difficulty of such a thing, as someone who has been "on the internet since before it was called the internet".

The reason why LoR is so named is not because we claim to only have people who are reasonable. That would be ludicrous, because we decides who can sign up? That would be an arbitrary decision and much too painful for any administrator to endure. Instead, I posit that the name, and intent, of this site is to draw in people who desire to discuss issues rationally. We do not discriminate nor skew to those who, as you so eloquently put it, post whateverthefucktheywant. As long as the person maintain some semblance of rationality and isn't clearly trying to troll, they can speak their mind.

Now back to the issue at hand. On the one hand, I do not agree that MasterGhostKnight should have used the LoR logo as it does seem like he is representing LoR. If some creationist made an absurd video about how evolution is wrong and tacked RDF's logo in front, I think I would call that an misrepresentation of RDF. However, there is no official "doctrine" or "dogma" of LoR, it's just a bunch of people on the internet who post here because we're interested in rational discussions.

I understand that the logo is being used as advertisement for LoR, but the risk of being misinterpreted as a forum for crackpot conspiracy theorists or whatever is rather high when people have different opinions. Perhaps the logo at the end of the video instead, or a link to LoR with some clarifications that the video is not endorsed (who the heck endorses videos in LoR anyway... This isnt an official organization) by LoR would've made things better.

 

[Aught3]

The reason why LoR is so named is not because we claim to only have people who are reasonable. That would be ludicrous, because we decides who can sign up? That would be an arbitrary decision and much too painful for any administrator to endure. Instead, I posit that the name, and intent, of this site is to draw in people who desire to discuss issues rationally.

Perfect, this is the way I think about it.

 

[shanedk]

lthough in my defense I would like to add that it is with great hypocrisy that ShaneDk comes back into this board trying to poison to people

See, it's these kind of OUTRIGHT LIES that I'm talking about! You know perfectly well that I'm here responding to AndromedasWake!

The fact that you even have the audacity to CALL yourself a skeptic should offend every genuine skeptic here to his very bones!

After the League of Reason assisted you on fighting your cases of censorship,

They did NOTHING. I got CRAP from you people. I TRIED, but the ONLY help I received was from my own subscribers. My ratings are STILL down as a result.

if I may remind you the reason why you left this forum was because of my criticism embarrassed

No, it was because I WAS TIRED OF YOUR FUCKING LIES!!! I was tired of the personal abuse and STALKING coming from you, ImprobableJoe, and others--like when I HELPFULLY tried to post information about protecting and defending oneself from false DMCA claims!

You fucking assholes...your motto is, "No good deed goes unpunished,"

And in your pride in not admitting that a single person alone could have done it,

It WASN'T you alone. Stop stoking your own ego in public! It was also IJ, MP, and the NUMEROUS others like you. Pathetic, disgusting, lying WORMS!!!

And again, I got NO HELP WHATSOEVER from the LoR during it all.

Never did the collective of the League of Reason did you anything wrong,

Oh, you FUCKING LIAR!!! You know PERFECTLY WELL the LIES you and others told about me, that I had to spend WEEKS defending myself against--even AFTER I left!!!

You're a disgusting LIAR, nothing more.

 

[shanedk]

That is only true insofar as we're able to filter out people saying only whateverthefucktheywant, versus people that have the intent of having a reasonable discussion. Surely you understand the difficulty of such a thing, as someone who has been "on the internet since before it was called the internet".

Again, see the rules on MY forum. That shit would NOT be tolerated there.

The reason why LoR is so named is not because we claim to only have people who are reasonable.

I don't make that claim on my forum, either.

That would be ludicrous, because we decides who can sign up? That would be an arbitrary decision and much too painful for any administrator to endure.

I don't either. But basic rules enforcing common decency are easily and non-arbitrarily set, and when consistently enforced, work wonders. NO ONE should have to put up with the kind of cyberstalking I had to keep defending myself from.

As long as the person maintain some semblance of rationality and isn't clearly trying to troll, they can speak their mind.

Except that MGK and the others CLEARLY ARE!!! What about how MalognantPenguin completely derailed my helpful thread on the DMCA? What about when he, MGK, ImprobableJoe, and the others flooded post after post of their crap and completely derailed a discussion on health care? They ARE trolls!

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

http://www.bogosity.tv/forum/index.php?topic=154.0

And this is how conversations with you allways goes.
You don't like the answer you call people a liar. you are incorrectible.

 

[shanedk]

http://www.bogosity.tv/forum/index.php?topic=154.0

And this is how conversations with you allways goes.
You don't like the answer you call people a liar. you are incorrectible.

And what specifically did I say that you claim is a lie? You don't. Whereas I've caught you DIRECTLY in lie after lie after lie.

You wouldn't last a DAY on the Bogosity forum. I don't think you have it anywhere in you to abide by Da Rules, as reasonable as they are.

 

[monitoradiation]

Again, see the rules on MY forum. That shit would NOT be tolerated there.

Then I see no reason why anyone would want to go to your forum. People go to forums to speak whateverthefucktheywant. Sad fact of life, it seems.

I don't make that claim on my forum, either.

I'm not talking about your forum. This, unfortunately, isn't going to dwindling into a discussion of what YOUR forum is about. This is about LoR, and I'm merely clarifying that people CAN say whateverthefucktheywant as we don't claim to only have memberships for people who are rational. Take it or leave it.

I don't either. But basic rules enforcing common decency are easily and non-arbitrarily set, and when consistently enforced, work wonders. NO ONE should have to put up with the kind of cyberstalking I had to keep defending myself from....

... Except that MGK and the others CLEARLY ARE!!! What about how MalognantPenguin completely derailed my helpful thread on the DMCA? What about when he, MGK, ImprobableJoe, and the others flooded post after post of their crap and completely derailed a discussion on health care? They ARE trolls!

You do not have the right not to be offended. And you don't have to stay here (and you clearly haven't) if you think their behaviour is disruptive. I would start a new thread, or leave the issue be, or remind whoever is on the thread of the original topic.

As to the behaviours of IJ, MGK and whoever MalognantPenguin: I cannot speak on their behalf. I have no reason to believe that Joe is anything more of a jerk who happens to be reasonable most of the time I've heard him contribute. MGK has never been a problem for me. And I don't know who MalognantPenguin is.

 

[monitoradiation]

Shanedk:

It's quickly becoming evident by your screaming-match with MGK that you're disrupting the topic. Can I start calling you a troll yet?

Ironic, isn't it?

 

[shanedk]

Then I see no reason why anyone would want to go to your forum. People go to forums to speak whateverthefucktheywant. Sad fact of life, it seems.

Have you even read Da Rules? Or are you passing judgement on something without even reading it first?

What, if anything, in there is at all unreasonable? Tell me: I'd really like to know!

I'm not talking about your forum.

Doesn't matter. You're acting as if they are the only options. A false trichotomy. I'm pointing out that there are other ways of doing it. And instead of considering that, all you do is whinge. It's ridiculous and sad, but not out of line with what I've come to expect from this place.

This, unfortunately, isn't going to dwindling into a discussion of what YOUR forum is about. This is about LoR, and I'm merely clarifying that people CAN say whateverthefucktheywant as we don't claim to only have memberships for people who are rational. Take it or leave it.

And I left it. Unfortunately, the liars here keep making it necessary for me to keep defending myself.

You do not have the right not to be offended. And you don't have to stay here (and you clearly haven't) if you think their behaviour is disruptive.

It's not about my choice; it's about your choice. You can take my advice and make this truly a place where rational people can have good discussions about whatever subject they want, and it would only take a couple of very simple changes, or you can leave things as they are and have this a board full of trolls who just want their own ideas supported.

And I don't know who MalognantPenguin is.

If he's not a regular poster, he may have followed me here from my YouTube channel. He continually and unashamedly broke the rules (pretty much the same rules as on Bogosity.TV), and I blocked him. He's been cyberstalking me ever since. (There's a rule against that on Bogosity.) He came into the thread to tell everyone that I'm a censoring SOB who hates anyone who disagrees with him, ever.

Again, not the kind of thing one should expect on a forum called "League of Reason."

 

[shanedk]

Shanedk:

It's quickly becoming evident by your screaming-match with MGK that you're disrupting the topic. Can I start calling you a troll yet?

Ironic, isn't it?

ME??? I haven't started anything! I'm just defending myself!!!

Why don't you get on HIS case? Just because he's one of your fellow butt-buddies or something?