Why we can never win - a report on the Colbert Report

[Gnug215]

So yeah, I saw this today:





Surprising? In a sense, yes, and in a sense, no.

This is the kind of study that to me says that we will never win this entire debate we're permanently engaged in.
I mean, for the love of... These people don't even have the intelligence to grasp satire made on their own views!

*groan*

 

[Otokogoroshi]

I agree, its both shocking and... not at all shocking.

I watch his show alllllll the time and just adore it. A friend of mine loved the daily show but didn't think the Colbert Report was very funny. I explained to him what he was satirizing and he still didn't get it. So I sat him down bit the bullet and made him watch some O'Reily, every since then he's adored the Colbert Report. That's not really an example of people seeing what they want but maybe not getting it without understanding what he's mocking.


I think the thing that surprises me the most is well...... HE'S NOT SUBTLE!!! Frankly if someone watches his show and really honestly thing that he feels that way... is a fucking bloody moron. I've seen him out of character, read articles about him. He's... not... like that!



Off topic slightly... I once had a sex dream about Colbert... it was... odd... I haven't been able to look at him the same way since.

 

[Gnug215]

Off topic slightly... I once had a sex dream about Colbert... it was... odd... I haven't been able to look at him the same way since.

LOL

 

[ebbixx]

I think the thing that surprises me the most is well...... HE'S NOT SUBTLE!!! Frankly if someone watches his show and really honestly thing that he feels that way... is a fucking bloody moron. I've seen him out of character, read articles about him. He's... not... like that!

Confirmation bias is like that. I thought this was self-evident -- that hardcore conservatives would tend to believe that underneath the satire that some of them do pick up on, Colbert is "secretly" on their side.

I'd suggest viewing James Burke's The Day the Universe Changed if you still have any residual feeling that this is a "winnable" argument. How can it even be an argument if each side is using a different scoring system, and one side remains attached to ideas that seemed to have died centuries ago? Could it be that they are as uncomfortable with the rate of change in the real world and its disruptive effects as many in the developing and barely developing world?

If people were more generally familiar with the tenets of Mormonism I'd almost recommend viewing VenomfangX's (RIP) co-screed with the eternally washed-out (lighting-wise) LetsTalkChrist guy here:



The point being, that these folks don't just miss the boat on several centuries of science. They're so enamored of hearing their own voicesl and imagining themselves as heroes or martyrs, that they didn't bother to learn enough about the "cult" they're opposed to realize that calling Mormonism heretical in terms of the Nicene Creed and doctrine of the Trinity is simply confirmation (from the Mormon POV) of Mormons' claims to have "restored" Christianity as it existed before Constantine pushed the early Christians into adopting a single set of beliefs, a set of beliefs that couldn't have even been formulated without the aid of Greek philosophical terms of art, and notions that never existed in the Hebrew worldview or language.

I think there's something in that Bible of theirs about "bearing false witness" though, isn't there? Awww... it probably doesn't really apply to them now, does it?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Stephen Colbert describes the character as a "well-intentioned, poorly informed high-status idiot," who is so egotistical that he can turn any tiny fact about himself into big news, and shrink down the biggest news story to really be about him. He's basically said that his character is based on a bunch of TV idiots with stupid viewpoints based on arrogance and ignorance. The people who believe he's a conservative seem to be similarly entrenched in arrogance and ignorance.

It also explains why right-wingers aren't funny.

 

[GoodKat]

I freaking love Colbert, in fact, he voiced someone on a cartoon I used to watch, and I could never figure out why I liked that character so much, until I found out.

 

[Aught3]

It's kind of like Poe's law isn't it? No matter how outrageous you make the satire there will always be someone who takes you seriously.

 

[Ozymandyus]

Poe's law should only apply to beliefs so ridiculous that its not possible to make obvious satire.... I'm not quite sure that conservatives are THAT ridiculous. But I guess that some of them take it seriously is telling about how silly some conservatives can be.

 

[ebbixx]

Poe's law should only apply to beliefs so ridiculous that its not possible to make obvious satire....

Anyone who heard that piece as saying that conservatives don't realize the "act" is satire should probably listen again and closely.

The researcher was only making the case that they understand it as satire, but manage to hold onto the belief that, somewhere, way deep down, Colbert actually agrees with them... just not in such an idiotic and egocentric way, perhaps. At least that was what I heard her say.

 

[acerba]

This study makes me want to start my own satirical tv show... and get it on a channel that supports the very views I'm mocking.

 

[DeistPaladin]

If conservatives or Christians ever ran a parody of a similar kind, if they could, I don't think there would be any confusion on our part about it being a parody. I wonder why that is.

 

[Gnug215]

If conservatives or Christians ever ran a parody of a similar kind, if they could, I don't think there would be any confusion on our part about it being a parody. I wonder why that is.

That is a very good... eh, wonderment indeed.

I've been wondering the same. I have a satirical video on my channel, which pokes fun at Creationists mostly, and their silly questions they often pose to "evolutionists" and atheists. And I've been getting some theists come by and comment. And strangely enough, even though they realize (or are made aware of) the fact that it's a parody, it's still as if they're missing the point completely.

So is it something in their minds that is missing? Or is it just hard to laugh at someone parodying "you"?

Actually... I just got to thinking about an example some of you can "test yourselves" with:
Do any of you remember that South Park episode about Dodgeball? (Or whatever the name of the game was exactly)
They went to China for the world championship, and there were these two Chinese commentators, and they were making fun of Americans, parodying a clichéd American.
Anyone remember that?
Maybe you Americans could watch that and see what you think of it.

It kinda works for most Westerners, I guess, but... ah well.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Something I was thinking of... it would be hard for anyone to test this on progressives, since regressive right-wingers are sorely lacking in comedic skill, especially when it comes to any sort of humor requiring subtlety. Usually, their comedy is based on being hateful, or just lying about people... with a healthy dollop of racism, misogyny, and homophobia thrown in for good measure. There's something strongly not-funny about the right-wing mind, possibly because they see everything as black and white, and comedy requires a broader viewpoint.

That's not to say that there aren't effective ways to mock progressives. The problem is that it generally falls to other progressives (and centrists to some degree) to tell those jokes too.

 

[Spase]

If conservatives or Christians ever ran a parody of a similar kind, if they could, I don't think there would be any confusion on our part about it being a parody. I wonder why that is.

Sadly I disagree. If you haven't met some of the nuts from the far left count yourself lucky. I listened to a woman tell me once that the government under Bush was sending hurricanes down from Alaska... and that they caused hurricane Katrina. Seriously.

There are people so far to one side or the other that they're willing to believe anything that maligns the other.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Sadly I disagree. If you haven't met some of the nuts from the far left count yourself lucky. I listened to a woman tell me once that the government under Bush was sending hurricanes down from Alaska... and that they caused hurricane Katrina. Seriously.

There are people so far to one side or the other that they're willing to believe anything that maligns the other.

There are Americans on the far-left? Where? The example you provide doesn't sound "far left" as much as simply delusional.

 

[Spase]

There are Americans on the far-left? Where? The example you provide doesn't sound "far left" as much as simply delusional.

Haha!

She was both. When you get far enough right or left you run into people that are delusional. Some things that I see as far left views include; pharmaceuticals are bad in almost every case, patent laws are evil because they make medicines less available for poor people (yes, there's an argument, but without examining the other side I have no respect for the position), capitalism is evil and communism is a perfect system.

Those beliefs by themselves are not completely indefensible but the same people all too often are very quick to take absolutly insane conspiracy theories seriously as long as the people behind the conspiracy are the right wing and/or religious.

Because I identify as mostly left it's hard for me to be critical of some positions that I know a lot of people take issue with... Oh! yeah, also activist groups like ELF are nasty. PETA being against critical research where it involves animal testing is far left, "evangelical" vegans... etc.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Haha!

She was both. When you get far enough right or left you run into people that are delusional. Some things that I see as far left views include; pharmaceuticals are bad in almost every case, patent laws are evil because they make medicines less available for poor people (yes, there's an argument, but without examining the other side I have no respect for the position), capitalism is evil and communism is a perfect system.

Those beliefs by themselves are not completely indefensible but the same people all too often are very quick to take absolutly insane conspiracy theories seriously as long as the people behind the conspiracy are the right wing and/or religious.

Because I identify as mostly left it's hard for me to be critical of some positions that I know a lot of people take issue with... Oh! yeah, also activist groups like ELF are nasty. PETA being against critical research where it involves animal testing is far left, "evangelical" vegans... etc.

PETA is far-right... you're confusing "issues" with "political activities." Being a vegan isn't a political position. Being a lunatic animal rights activist is a particularly right-wing activity, when you look at their behavior.

Then again, we live in a country where the Democrats are the conservative party, and the Republicans are the radical authoritarian party, and there's NO progressive party that has any real power, so things get a little confusionalistic.

 

[DeistPaladin]

Far left and far right are easy to confuse. Even back during my Reagan-loving conservative days, I believed in the "wrap around" theory of political wings. Whether its the government taking over the corporations (communism) or the corporations taking over the government (fascism), either way, the results are the same. I realize I'm over-simplifying a bit here but my point remains the same.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Far left and far right are easy to confuse. Even back during my Reagan-loving conservative days, I believed in the "wrap around" theory of political wings. Whether its the government taking over the corporations (communism) or the corporations taking over the government (fascism), either way, the results are the same. I realize I'm over-simplifying a bit here but my point remains the same.

No, your point stands... it is like a ring, more than a line. At the top of the ring are all the sane folks, who more or less agree on generalities and only disagree on specifics and emphasis. At the bottom are the lunatic fringe, who use the same tactics and have the same mindset no matter what issue they are applying it to. In that sense, the PETA fanatics are just like the militia idiots.

In America, the Democratic Party holds the center and center-right positions, progressive groups are pushing to add a center-left voice to the Democrats, the far-right lunatics have taken over the Republican Party, and the left-nuts are completely on the fringe and have no effect on American politics. The way you can tell? When progressives talk about examples of right-wing nuts, we mean people with TV shows, radio shows, and book deals. When the right-wingers find people with really radical leftist views, they are anonymous bloggers and professors at tiny schools no one has ever heard of.

 

[ebbixx]

Something I was thinking of... it would be hard for anyone to test this on progressives, since regressive right-wingers are sorely lacking in comedic skill, especially when it comes to any sort of humor requiring subtlety.

I'd agree it's hard to think of any recent examples, but I'd consider the late William F. Buckley a master of dry and subtle right-wing wit, much as I disagreed with most of his political positions, aside from drug decriminalization. Then again, perhaps Rush Limbaugh is a parody? Still, not a parody of progressive politics.