Why "religion is not a race" is only half true

[Giliell]

As for the meat, I'd suggest Sucuc, kind of Turkish salami, but only if you like garlic

As for the moderates: Ever heard of Raki? One of the two reasons while Greece and Turkey will argue until the end of the universe. The other one is Kebap. Or if you ask the Greek, Ouzo and Gyros And last time I spent so quality time with a bottle of Raki, you could get horribly drunk of it. That would be alcohol, the national beverage of a predominantly muslim country. The girl in the Turkish grocery store is dressed not different from me.
I won't say that there aren't problems with mostly muslim Turkish imigrants, but those are to blame on both sides. The issues are mostly of language and culture.

For the threat to the western world: How come the western world fostered and promoted exactly those forces that are now the most violent and dangerous? The ghosts I called....

 

[Prolescum]

And maybe, the US mindset can help adjust and better the Muslim way of thinking.

Are you mad? The US mindset is outwardly characterised by maximum profit, minimum care; I hardly think that's the way to reduce an extreme stance... :lol:

 

[ImprobableJoe]

You have a point, however, I'm not much of a positive thinker, hehe. I do fear muslims, and maybe that is why I am biased against them. Viewing the whole thing in an objective way, then sure, it is best to give them a chance and let the experiment begin. Provided that they leave their religion's extreme world view behind, then I approve. To be accurate, as long as they are in accord with the US Constitution, and obey the laws of the land.

And maybe, the US mindset can help adjust and better the Muslim way of thinking.

And maybe it would help you to think about the fact that one in five people worldwide is a Muslim. The vast majority of them haven't done a single thing to earn anyone's distrust. Here in America, there's a few million Muslims and there have been only a handful or Islamic terrorist attacks on U.S. soil EVER. Most of the violent extremists in America are white Christians, and there are a hell of a lot more of them, but our culture has redefined terrorism to exclude white Christians. A white terrorist threw a pip bomb into a local mosque just a few months ago, and there's been zero retaliation from Muslims.

Yeah, Muslim terrorism isn't the threat it is made out to be. It isn't a nonexistent threat, but it isn't something I've ever lost a single night's sleep over.

 

[lrkun]

You have a point, however, I'm not much of a positive thinker, hehe. I do fear muslims, and maybe that is why I am biased against them. Viewing the whole thing in an objective way, then sure, it is best to give them a chance and let the experiment begin. Provided that they leave their religion's extreme world view behind, then I approve. To be accurate, as long as they are in accord with the US Constitution, and obey the laws of the land.

And maybe, the US mindset can help adjust and better the Muslim way of thinking.

And maybe it would help you to think about the fact that one in five people worldwide is a Muslim. The vast majority of them haven't done a single thing to earn anyone's distrust. Here in America, there's a few million Muslims and there have been only a handful or Islamic terrorist attacks on U.S. soil EVER. Most of the violent extremists in America are white Christians, and there are a hell of a lot more of them, but our culture has redefined terrorism to exclude white Christians. A white terrorist threw a pip bomb into a local mosque just a few months ago, and there's been zero retaliation from Muslims.

Yeah, Muslim terrorism isn't the threat it is made out to be. It isn't a nonexistent threat, but it isn't something I've ever lost a single night's sleep over.

I am persuaded to agree with you with regard to the people, but I am firm on my stance that the religion itself is wrong. It's the religion, not the people that I am attacking here.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Now that, I think, is going too far. Whether or not Islam is an existential threat to the West, not everyone who thinks of it as such is ignorant, cowardly, or bigoted.

I don't think ignorance can't be benign, but it is still wrong. Then again, maybe I'm wrong, and someone has presented the case that the couple of hundred Al Qaeda fighters in caves in Afghanistan can destroy whole countries.

Put correctly the argument goes that Islamic extremist can take over whole Islamic countries. This has happened, and is something of a legitimate threat.

Maybe somewhere there is proof that the threat is somehow as great or greater than the threat from the Soviet Union...

I'm not sure that anyone is arguing that it is.

that not coincidentally also turned out to be blown out of proportion...

No arguments here, although lest we forget they still possessed world-as-we-know-it ending power whether it be exaggerated or not.

without standing armies, sophisticated weaponry, or the capacity to get significant numbers of fighters anywhere where they can do real existential damage.

The danger is that they might acquire these things, which is easily within the realm of possibility.

I'm not talking about "terrorists can blow up a building"... of course they can. The idea that they can end Western civilization is a fucking joke.

It does seem on the extreme end of unlikelihood, and would likely require the application of numerous nuclear weapons of which the Islamic world at present has only a few. The potential is real, however; if not manifest.

Now you can argue that such things are a tad paranoid and you might be right. It was probably a tad paranoid for various parties to assume the threat of Communism to be so grave; we cannot know, of course, what would have happened if they had not. History is, however, full of examples of civilizations regretting having not taken a threat seriously.

Of course, "ending" Western civilization would never occur in any case. It would be unprecedented; Eastern civilization never "ended" even with its fall under Temujin Khan, it was merely augmented into something that, while still itself, was largely unrecognizable to those who had known it previously. In that sense, the "ending" of what we know as Western civilization is not only possible, it is inevitable. What remains to be seen is what it is to become; radical Islam easily has the power to affect that outcome, for good or ill.

Regardless this seems a broad dichotomy. There is a large gray area between "can end Western civilization" and "can blow up a building" which need be taken into consideration. I don't think many thinkers would take solace at merely having Europe and Americas economy trashed, or a few major cities turned to cinders.

 

[Aught3]

I think I would agree that there is probably a large racist and xenophobic element within the overall movement that criticises Islam. The problem is if they are only criticising the religion and making accurate criticisms it seems rather disingenuous to label them racists.

 

[Andiferous]

::thumbsup:: Giliell

I've argued this a few times, at the risk of repeating myself: regarding DMD.

I've said the same in the past; basically the root of the problem is that many people can't make the distinction between Islam and a racist stereotype.

 

[Giliell]

I think I would agree that there is probably a large racist and xenophobic element within the overall movement that criticises Islam. The problem is if they are only criticising the religion and making accurate criticisms it seems rather disingenuous to label them racists.

Well, but since they hardly make accurate criticism, it's not too hard