Why I want YOU to pray

[Vanlavak]

Prayer has long been something misunderstood not only by hard-on dedicated Christian, Muslim, and Jews, but also by supporters of these groups' antithesis. Prayer can easily be compared to a mantra or a personal dedication. Prayer to a Metaphysical god is sorely misunderstood as I said because the metaphysical is also sorely misunderstood and therefore strikes fear in the ignorant. The reality of the metaphysical, however is very strikingly simple. The entirety of the real, physical world is what we can observe with our devices. The metaphysical is not at all metaphysical except in the mind, in which in the case, the metaphysical god is really a belief in hope and power that goes beyond your sub-conscience limitations on yourself. So when you pray to what you believe to have infinite power (reality maybe) and believe really hard, you actually bring yourself to a new level of possible accomplishment because by submitting to something you believe is more powerful then you or infinitely powerful, of course at a conscience and sub-conscience level. Give up your bias and do things that work.

 

[nasher168]

:lol:

If I'm looking for spiritual fulfilment or inspiration, I'd rather go for a walk, look at the stars, help someone else out with something, listen to awe-inspiring music or some combination of the above.

 

[Vanlavak]

:lol:

If I'm looking for spiritual fulfilment or inspiration, I'd rather go for a walk, look at the stars, help someone else out with something, listen to awe-inspiring music or some combination of the above.

I love how you show not only that you didn't read the paragraph I so kindly wrote for you, but you also and using classical atheist ignorant bias toward any mention of prayer. I said NOTHING about spiritual fulfillment, what I actually said can be found in the original post. This isn't about spiritual inspiration or shit I wright for your laughs, it's a clear debunking of the mystical aspect of prayer and an observance of it's real benefits.

Try harder next time.

 

[Avatra1]

"Give up your bias and do things that work."

The reason why I do not pray.

 

[Prolescum]

I'm not sure it's wise to be following the examples set by "hard-on dedicated Christian, Muslim, and Jews", even if they do contend their god has the biggest phallus.

Jokes aside, you're attempting to conflate positive thinking and prayer with a bit of "you might as well" or "just in case" thrown in; these aren't very good arguments at all. Nice try, or as my mother would put it "that's fuckin' stupid, but also fuckin' hilarious".

In summary, if prayer worked there wouldn't be any homosexuals.

/thread

 

[Vanlavak]

I'm not sure it's wise to be following the examples set by "hard-on dedicated Christian, Muslim, and Jews", even if they do contend their god has the biggest phallus.

Jokes aside, you're attempting to conflate positive thinking and prayer with a bit of "you might as well" or "just in case" thrown in; these aren't very good arguments at all. Nice try, or as my mother would put it "that's fuckin' stupid, but also fuckin' hilarious".

In summary, if prayer worked there wouldn't be any homosexuals.

/thread

I never said that prayer could eliminate homosexuals, it can, however bring desirable personal results.

You guys are so bias at the mere mention of prayer. If you don't think god exists, why are you so irrationally afraid of him?

 

[Anachronous Rex]

I'm not sure it's wise to be following the examples set by "hard-on dedicated Christian, Muslim, and Jews", even if they do contend their god has the biggest phallus.

Jokes aside, you're attempting to conflate positive thinking and prayer with a bit of "you might as well" or "just in case" thrown in; these aren't very good arguments at all. Nice try, or as my mother would put it "that's fuckin' stupid, but also fuckin' hilarious".

In summary, if prayer worked there wouldn't be any homosexuals.

/thread

I never said that prayer could eliminate homosexuals, it can, however bring desirable personal results.

Just not to homosexuals, apparently.

You guys are so bias at the mere mention of prayer. If you don't think god exists, why are you so irrationally afraid of him?

Afraid of, "a belief in hope and power that goes beyond your sub-conscience limitations on yourself?" You see, this is why we are dismissive of people like you. You may spout that god is actually just positive feelings and sunshine, but at the end of the day you're the same old anthropomorphists.

 

[Unwardil]

Just because I have a morbid curiosity about this, how exactly does the process of prayer go? Is it like meditation where you just mutter the same thing over and over again, or what. What is the conscious mechanism being applied here? Does one ask the darkness for specific things... and is an answer expected even though you must know from experience that no answer is going to be forth coming that doesn't sound suspiciously like what you imagine your own internal monologue to sound like?

I actually have no idea, having never thought it a good use of my time to randomly ask oblivion to solve my problems for me, which is always what prayer appears to be, but if this is not how the process goes, please, enlighten me.

 

[Prolescum]

I'm not sure it's wise to be following the examples set by "hard-on dedicated Christian, Muslim, and Jews", even if they do contend their god has the biggest phallus.

Jokes aside, you're attempting to conflate positive thinking and prayer with a bit of "you might as well" or "just in case" thrown in; these aren't very good arguments at all. Nice try, or as my mother would put it "that's fuckin' stupid, but also fuckin' hilarious".

In summary, if prayer worked there wouldn't be any homosexuals.

/thread

I never said that prayer could eliminate homosexuals

At no point did I suggest you had said that.

If you did not understand the purpose of that sentence, you need only spend some time thinking about it. I like that you leap to defend yourself against non-existent criticism though, and it's interesting that you chose to address that (and in that way, particularly) instead of my central point (that your argument is daft).

it can, however bring desirable personal results.

So if I pray really hard, really really hard, with my eyes tightly shut and everything, my voice all squeaky and cute, there's a chance the TARDIS'll show up and take me on an epic journey through time and space despite me not even being a girl?

You can assert whatever you like, but if you cannot back up a claim, and if it's as stupid as "you should try prayer, you might get that new car you wanted", don't be surprised when it is laughed at.

You guys are so bias at the mere mention of prayer.

Because earning is better than wishing. I'm sure whichever of the dozens of gods you pray to would agree. They love espousing generic common sense, these deities. Makes it easier to fool the plebs into acquiescence, I suppose.

If you don't think god exists, why are you so irrationally afraid of him?

1) Which god? YHWH? Enlil? Danu? Quetzalcoatl? Elvis?
2) Which part of my post gave you the impression I am afraid of gods?
3) Is this a risible attempt at reverse psychology?

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Define "Prayer" -
Is it the action? The intent? The being we pray to?

...

and here comes the shit storm.

 

[Vanlavak]

Define "Prayer" -
Is it the action? The intent? The being we pray to?

...

and here comes the shit storm.

The definition used here is: A fervent request.
In this instance, you are praying to the idea of something bigger than you.
The results are going to probably be in the form of unproved brain orientation toward your "prayed for" goals.
If your afraid of praying just because you believe your above it or that it has weird qualities to it, then your being a bit superstitious, which is a bit unexpected for an atheist.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Define "Prayer" -
Is it the action? The intent? The being we pray to?

...

and here comes the shit storm.

The definition used here is: A fervent request.
In this instance, you are praying to the idea of something bigger than you.
The results are going to probably be in the form of unproved brain orientation toward your "prayed for" goals.
If your afraid of praying just because you believe your above it or that it has weird qualities to it, then your being a bit superstitious, which is a bit unexpected for an atheist.

Buddhists don't pray, and at it's core, Buddhism is an atheistic religion. They meditate, and contemplate in order to obtain inner peace through daily practices.

I'm not an atheist, btw. I pray, but there's a complex reasoning behind the mechanics of prayer -
here's the thing. You explain to us how "Prayer" would work.

 

[DepricatedZero]

Prayer works, but only on the personal, eh? So if an amputee prays hard enough, he'll regrow that limb? And it's just the power of his mind that does it, of course, not some supernatural deity.

Bullshit.


Prayer is bunk. Worse, prayer is outright destructive. I see in the news all the time stories of children who have died because their parents believed in the power of prayer.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32252045/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/wis-jury-father-guilty-prayer-death-case/#.TstGaFbO98E
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Prayer-Killed-the-Baby-by-Bob-Johnson-111004-453.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-6162918-504083.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/firstborn/firstborn42.html
http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=132

Prayer is wishful thinking and is absolutely no substitute for action.

The definition used here is: A fervent request.
In this instance, you are praying to the idea of something bigger than you.
The results are going to probably be in the form of unproved brain orientation toward your "prayed for" goals.
If your afraid of praying just because you believe your above it or that it has weird qualities to it, then your being a bit superstitious, which is a bit unexpected for an atheist.

A fervent request from whom?
The superstition is in the belief that wishful thinking will help you accomplish your goals. Positive thinking, yes, a good attitude goes a long way, however there is no set of magical words you can speak, such as, "Dear Cthulhu give me the power to obliterate my enemies," that will grant you "unproved brain orientation toward your . . . goals."

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Two hands with tools are 100% more effective than a thousand clasped in prayer.

 

[Squawk]

I'm somewhat intrigued. If you are suggesting that prayer may have benefits similar to meditation, or even just to conscious positive thought, on the subconscious, then I agree. I don't have hard evidence to back it up (can't be arsed to look since to be frank), but I can imagine that the act of prayer can serve to put someone in the right frame of mind to accomplish something they otherwise couldn't. Just as long as no claim is made about a supernatural source for this positive frame of mind I see no issue.

 

[Thyssane]

Prayer works, but only on the personal, eh? So if an amputee prays hard enough, he'll regrow that limb? And it's just the power of his mind that does it, of course, not some supernatural deity.

Bullshit.


Prayer is bunk. Worse, prayer is outright destructive. I see in the news all the time stories of children who have died because their parents believed in the power of prayer.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32252045/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/wis-jury-father-guilty-prayer-death-case/#.TstGaFbO98E
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Prayer-Killed-the-Baby-by-Bob-Johnson-111004-453.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-6162918-504083.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/firstborn/firstborn42.html
http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=132

Prayer is wishful thinking and is absolutely no substitute for action.

The definition used here is: A fervent request.
In this instance, you are praying to the idea of something bigger than you.
The results are going to probably be in the form of unproved brain orientation toward your "prayed for" goals.
If your afraid of praying just because you believe your above it or that it has weird qualities to it, then your being a bit superstitious, which is a bit unexpected for an atheist.

A fervent request from whom?
The superstition is in the belief that wishful thinking will help you accomplish your goals. Positive thinking, yes, a good attitude goes a long way, however there is no set of magical words you can speak, such as, "Dear Cthulhu give me the power to obliterate my enemies," that will grant you "unproved brain orientation toward your . . . goals."

This post sums it up quite nicely. Although I admit that the words "dear Cthulhu", in that order, make my brain bridle at the inherent paradox. The Sleeper in R'lyeh will undoubtedly refuse to answer any prayer that begins with those words

Also, why are you saying that we have a fear of god(s)? Speaking for myself, i don't fear anything that doesn't exist.

Regards,
Thyssane.

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

Two hands with tools are 100% more effective than a thousand clasped in prayer.

You mean infinity percent. 100 multiplied by 0 is still 0.

 

[Snufkin]

Give up your bias and do things that work.

That's begging the question don't you think? What makes you think prayer works?
If you are basing this on yourself only, a sample size of 1 is not a good enough indicator.

Any referenced studies proving that the type of praying you described works?

 

[Prolescum]

Hey Vanlavak, why did you skip my post and answer Hytegia? Are you afraid of me?

 

[nasher168]

Try harder next time.

Oh, alright then.

I love how you show not only that you didn't read the paragraph I so kindly wrote for you,

Well I most certainly did, but perhaps I misunderstood it. It seemed to me you were saying that God is not necessarily real but is instead a concept we create inside our minds.

I said NOTHING about spiritual fulfillment,

Spiritual fulfilment seemed to be the implication, even if I phrased it differently to you. When you said prayer is not mystical, I thought you were implying the benefits are purely psychological. Another way of talking about the psychological benefits like this would be to call them "spiritual fulfilment".

what I actually said can be found in the original post.

...which I have apparently misunderstood. Would you mind explaining again?

it's a clear debunking of the mystical aspect of prayer and an observance of it's real benefits.

"Debunking" implies some kind of evidence or logical argument addressing (and usually crushing) opposing viewpoints. You provided neither. You merely made statements on the prior assumption that they were true.