Andiferous
New Member
Squagnut said:Here's where the problem lies:
Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.'
'Exactly!' affirmed the customer. 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.'
There is pain and suffering in the world because people don't go to God for help? I've not taken my car to a mechanic for repair for many years - not because it hasn't needed any repair, but because I do all the repairs myself.
There's a subtext to the conclusuion of that argument, one which imposes guilt on to people - pain and suffering is caused by people who don't turn to God. The argument says, effectively: "Our game of make-believe is only any good if everyone plays - if you don't play then the consequences are your fault." This message of guilt-in-love's-clothing has been putting me off religion for several decades now.
Yes, it's very manipulative and there are many subtexts at play. I find this particular bit really upsetting given the horrible things that happen to people regardless of their faith. I mean, just take a look at Haiti. An alternate reading might be that faith numbs the pain, as if religion were a kind of anesthesia for the suffering of this world. Either way, it makes me feel a little sick to think about.
Durakken said:Andiferous said:Firstly, I'm not making an argument. I'm just summing up the argument.
Secondly, when is the last time you've seen your barber?
I mean everyone, not you. The problem of Evil/suffering is a bad argument. The point of the argument. Or rather the true conclusion you're supposed to draw from it is x god can't have this trait and that trait logically thus x god can't exist. The argument is first off, failed, because if i can conceive of just one god that can fit that description the argument fails even though, Secondly, the argument is all together invalid, and Thirdly there is a fallacy in the argument.
Not going to argue either way right now, as it tends to be a weak argument anyway, and has been twisted and dumbed down for a parable by someone with an agenda.