Why are you NOT vegetarian

[Nemesiah]

I have been vegan for about 8 months now, while it gives me great pleasure to eat nothing but plants (and fungi yes) The other day I was discussing my veganism with a friend (for some reason everybody feels they can give me nutritional advice) and I asked why he felt he had the right to murder animals so he could chew on them; after a while it boiled down to his god given right to do use the earth and the animals as he saw fit because he has human and not some souless panda....

From a christ..g I see where this is comming but then I thougt, "So what is an atheist rationalization?"

I'll give you mine (from before my change in lifestyle) I hope you give me yours and we can see if there is an actuall valid reason to eat cow, fish, chicken, eggs, milk, or honey

I'll go first

a) I need them, Its the basis of sound nutrituion
b) I'm sure they are killed in a humane way
c) They live relatively confortable lives
d) I couldnt last a week without them they are delicious
e) I'll find a way of cloning beef so no animal will suffer from my addiction
f) I don't want to be an outcast
g) Vegetarians have nothing to eat

These are the ones that I remember now, so, what are yours?

 

[ArthurWilborn]

Deliciousness is a key one.

Humans are omnivorous, we've evolved to eat some meat every now and again.

The total feed animal lifespan is huge thanks to humans eating them; if we didn't there would be far less. This is more of a counter-argument to the "oh poor piggy" stance...

Milk is much healthier to drink then many other choices you could make.

 

[Aught3]

I don't have any apart from the convenience of eating what I'm used to and not having to re-learn how to prepare and cook adequate meals. I believe the logical case for vegetarianism is quite solid, I just don't care enough to overcome my inertia.

That and I absolutely despise chickens, so the more of them that get eaten the better.

Excellent topic btw.

 

[Memeticemetic]

I don't really have justifications for being a member of an omnivorous species. Any more than I have any justifications for being a member of a bilaterally symmetrical species.

 

[Independent Vision]

When I still ate meat (about ten years ago) my justification for it was the fact that my father was a hunter. The culling of moose was needed in Sweden to ensure the animals didn't starve because of the lack of predators. (No longer an issue)
We knew the animal had spent it's life in a good environment, it had been a clean kill and we took care of all the animal meat. I used to love moose tongue.
The only commercial meat we ate was a Swedish version of haggis and black-pudding.

So my argument back then was:
It's had a good life
It died to prevent widespread starvation and suffering
It was a clean kill
All edible parts, and some inedible parts were taken care of.

 

[lrkun]

I am not vegetarian because I enjoy eating meat.

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

Milk is much healthier to drink then many other choices you could make.

I used to think that until I actually looked at the facts. The most compelling and something we in the west take for granted, is only about 25% of the world's population can even drink the stuff.
http://genome.wellcome.ac.uk/doc_WTX038968.html
Whole Milk (aka full cream ilk)
150 Calories
8.2( Total fat
5.1g Saturated fat
2.4g Monounsaturated fat
0.3g Polyunsaturated fat
0g Dietary fiber
8g Protein
11g Carbohydrate
33mg Cholesterol
120mg Sodium
74re Vitamin A
2.4mcg Vitamin D
0.4mg Riboflavin
0.9mcg Vitamin B12
290 mg Calcium
228mg Phosphorus

Your basic Soy Milk for example contains (There are many different types of soy milk available these days, so results may vary)
lecithin and vitamin E
Lacks casein
Contains far less saturated fat than cow's milk.
Contains isoflavones
90 Calories
41 Calories from Fat
4.5g Total Fat
0.5g Saturated Fat
0mg Cholesterol
29mg Sodium
5g Total Carbohydrates
2g Dietary Fiber
1g Sugars
7gProtein
10% Vitamin A
8% (80mg)Calcium
25% Vitamin D
4% Vitamin C
20% phosphorus
25% (0.38mg) Thiamin (Vitamin B1)
9%(0.16mg) Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
2% (0.36mg) Niacin
5% (0.098mg) Vitamin B6
8% (1.4mg) Iron
15% (0.3mg) Copper
20% (0.4mg) Manganese


With the exception of the calcium (which you can buy soy milk with added calcium for little to no extra) soy milk is the healthier choice.

This is without looking into rice milk or wheat milk.

 

[Aught3]

I used to think that until I actually looked at the facts. The most compelling and something we in the west take for granted, is only about 25% of the world's population can even drink the stuff...

I think Arthur was probably referencing soda pop, alcoholic drinks, and the like. Regardless this post seems a little off topic?

What were/are your reasons for eating meat -
Taste?
Convenience?
Up-bringing?
The naturalistic fallacy?

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

I used to think that until I actually looked at the facts. The most compelling and something we in the west take for granted, is only about 25% of the world's population can even drink the stuff...

I think Arthur was probably referencing soda pop, alcoholic drinks, and the like. Regardless this post seems a little off topic?

What were/are your reasons for eating meat -
Taste?
Convenience?
Up-bringing?
The naturalistic fallacy?

Not really, it's still discussing a vegetarian alternative.

To answer the op

I'm not a vegetarian because I enjoy meat. I actually only eat meat once or twice a week, and only free range or game - on no pork. Pigs passed the self awareness test, and while I'll essentially eat anything in an emergency, say while lost in the alps... I as a matter of personal morality, do not eat organisms that have passed the self awareness test as a matter of a regular diet. That is not the only criteria for not eating particular types of animals, but the most relevant to the common western diet.

 

[nasher168]

Barely a day goes by in which I don't eat meat. I'm eating a bacon sandwich right now (or rather, I was when I started writing). It's just too delicious. I don't have the willpower to become a vegetarian, nor do I feel any particular need to.
There isn't yet any reasonable substitute for meat. Quorn captures the taste fairly well, but the texture is all wrong. Once a substitute becomes available that actually feels like meat, I will perhaps consider going vegetarian. But this included substitutions for ALL meats. That's chicken, turkey, duck, pork, bacon, gammon, beef, minced beef etc. As long as no substitute exists for one of those, I doubt I would go fully-vegetarian.

 

[BrainBlow]

Meat is delicious.
Also, I live on a farm. I'm sort of desensitized to the whole "they are living beings" thingy. And the "animal cruelty" propaganda doesn't bite at all.

But yeah, humans are omnivorous. And I've never found it interesting that we can live "without" meat, since many of the plants and nuts needed to replace it are either
a, from different parts of the world.
b, were bred by humans.
So it sort of annoys me when people go on about "we are meant to eat plants".
I'm not ashamed of being omnivorous.

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

Meat tastes good and it is also pretty healthy (when eaten in the right amount, most people, including me, eat too much meat). The thing is meat contains amino acids which we cannot make in our bodies and a lot of plants don't have these (or don't have them in large enough amounts) that meat pretty much becomes necessary to gain these amino acids. You can get them from things other than meat but it is more expensive, harder to get, and most vegetarians don't realize you need it. And I actually had a professor who said not giving your child meat is child abuse because there are a lot of vegetarians who do not have enough knowledge of a healthy diet to ensure that the amino acids they are missing from eating veggies get replaced leading in malnutrition and bad development.

 

[australopithecus]

Because the day I don't want to eat a roast chicken or a juicey steak is the day you might as well kill me, because I'd be dead inside.

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

Meat tastes good and it is also pretty healthy (when eaten in the right amount, most people, including me, eat too much meat). The thing is meat contains amino acids which we cannot make in our bodies and a lot of plants don't have these (or don't have them in large enough amounts) that meat pretty much becomes necessary to gain these amino acids. You can get them from things other than meat but it is more expensive, harder to get, and most vegetarians don't realize you need it. And I actually had a professor who said not giving your child meat is child abuse because there are a lot of vegetarians who do not have enough knowledge of a healthy diet to ensure that the amino acids they are missing from eating veggies get replaced leading in malnutrition and bad development.

Bias assumptions - a good many vegetarians know full well what their dietary needs are. Example; Spirulina platensis algae provides not only all the amino acids you need (in the same if not better quantities than the commonly eaten meats) but its also 65% to 70% protein. They contain all the vitamins you need with the exception of vitamin C in which it has little (but there are plenty of other sources for that). It's far more efficient than meat production, far cheaper, AND can aid in human waste disposal (if you're not squeamish) - the biggest downside to Spirulina algae is it tastes pretty much exactly as you expect algae to taste. BUT you just take it in pill or powder form, or mix it with something a little more flavoursome.

There are some other down sides, such as the rare strains that contain toxins and a nasty bacteria - but as with any other food production quality control will counter that (its actually safer than pork as example)


-----

You know, the arguments for eating meat are comparable to that religious argument for believing in god - it's comforting. There are some serious logical arguments for turning MOSTLY vegetarian - probably done, vegetarian produce is more efficient and cost effective to grow be orders of magnitude, essentially the lower on the food chain an organism is the more efficient they are in production.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_pyramid

Barring the use of industrial pesticides and nitrogen enriched fertilizers, increasing the production of various plants, fungi and algae for consumption will increase the global carbon sinks (this won't matter to the climate change denialist retards) and create a massive surplus of food (which can be re dispersed... unlikely considering a lot of people's views on foreign aid)
.

 

[MRaverz]

I eat meat because it tastes good and it's good to eat, in the right amount.

Additionally, there's a point to be made the a lot of chickens etc. wouldn't be alive if we weren't eating them.

On the side point of the Giant Panda, you'll find that it's an animal with the digestive system and all the capacities of a carnivore. As such, it is maladapted to consume the bamboo it eats and this has been a major factor in its small numbers. As such, this makes the case for 'if you're adapted to eat meat, eat meat'.

On a side point of that side point, it seems that Giant Pandas have lost the umami taste receptor gene and therefore cannot taste meaty flavours. Thus potentially leading to its change in diet.


Oh and as a biologist I see animals to have the same amount of life as a plant, bacteria or fungus does. The idea that we shouldn't eat animals because they suffer devalues the fact that when you eat a fungus or a plant, you're killing it. Therefore, I eat food and prefer that it wasn't killed horrifically but I don't make some moot point about some organisms being 'more alive' than others.

 

[FaithlessThinker]

It's (g) for me since where I'm right now, tasty vegetarian food is really hard to find while different kinds of non-vegetarian foods are available plentifully.

Also, my upbringing has made my tummy tamed for the digestion of meat.

Finally, I love meat. But I also love vegetables along with it. (I prefer a balanced meal.)

And as for those vegetarians claiming we can make a real difference in the world by choosing to be a vegetarian, it's a load of bull. It ain't gonna happen coz a vast majority of humans eat meat and they are not suddenly going to be vegetarian overnight. The minority can keep dreaming.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I'm just going to say what everyone else has said:
I'm a human. I am designed for both the intake of meat and vegetable alike - I possess both the characteristics of a herbivore, where I can substantiate myself off plants if I require... But evidence of experience strongly suggests that a nice medium-rare steak or hamburger is just asfsdghFHJDGJFKHKLGJLASD AMAZINGGGGG. I think that it could be the fact that I run several miles every morning, and exercise like a fucking boss on a daily basis. I see myself as a carnivore - minus the actual hunting down of the creature, and instead spending my talents on other conquests such as learning my trade or taking college.

Justify why those poor animals have to die so I can have a bite to eat?
Because I'm at the top of the food chain. My ancestors worked damned hard to get me here. I have earned the ability to pick and choose my next meal - simply because I have, at my disposal, both the technology, means, and economic equation of value for my time and experience in my field (money) to. I can justify all day why I should be able to do something that the Lion of the Wolf can do.

Should we eat in excess? Hell no. I've seen someone GAIN WEIGHT on Salads... -_- It was a fucking disgrace.
Should we have a nice balanced diet? Fuck yes.

DERAILING:
There are three kinds of vegetarian mentalities from my experience:
1) Guilt-trip "THOSE POOR ANIMALS LETS SAVE TEH WORLD"
2) "OMG IM FAT"
3) Meat is made out of the same stuff I am errgh *puke*

I think that the OP is #1, but could be any of the others.

 

[Squawk]

On purely philosophical grounds I can't justify eating meat, it's an immoral thing to do.

However, meat is tasty, it's a great source of nutrients (don't limit meat to just red meat here) and I find my life as a whole is more pleasant for eating meat than not eating it.

Would I kill a cow in order to eat meat? Yeah, probably. I've killed fish in that past with that goal.

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

DERAILING:
There are three kinds of vegetarian mentalities from my experience:
1) Guilt-trip "THOSE POOR ANIMALS LETS SAVE TEH WORLD"
2) "OMG IM FAT"
3) Meat is made out of the same stuff I am errgh *puke*

I think that the OP is #1, but could be any of the others.

There are three kinds of non-vegetarian mentalities from my experience

1) The Tool. I'm teh fuckin' top of food chain, I can do what evah teh fock I want!11!! Consquencez r 4 pussies! So nothing like the monotheistic argument that god gave us dominion over the animals, only Christians and Muslims think that way.
2)The Check My Brain in at the Door: I was brought up that way - nothing at all like those that adhere to pointless traditions like female circumcision or breast ironing simply because that's how mummy and daddy did it.
3) The Brainless. Huh? There's food that is meat? Maybe if I shift my gut out of the way I can read that book on nutrition that I was using to prop open door.

I think you're #1

Appeals to ridicule are fun.

 

[Laurens]

I'm veggie, do I win this topic? :mrgreen:

I thought I would present a contrast, and give the reasons as to why I don't eat meat.

1. I do not agree with the treatment and living conditions of many animals, whose only purpose is to suit our needs, and spends its life in a tiny space only to be killed in one way or another, and often abused.

2. Although I understand the argument that meat is what increased our brain size and that we are essentially evolutionarily designed to eat meat - we can get by in society without it now. We can source protein from elsewhere. Also it's so far removed from the manner in which our ancestor's relationship with animals began. Our ancestors would have hunted in a sustainable manner, the animals were roaming free and the fittest of them would stand a good chance of evading capture. The industry we have now is so far removed from that, and it is far more cruel. I think that if you couldn't kill an animal you should not eat it. Everyone is so detached from the meat we see in the shop, nobody gets up to their elbows in blood and guts (aside from within a few professions) and nobody could care less that something had actually died.

3. A lot of the cheap meat you get is full of shite, and most likely to have come from a dishevelled chicken that can't move that was pumped with antibiotics etc. I would consider eating meat that was caught in the wild, in a sustainable manner, I don't think I would have huge moral issues with that, but I think in terms of industry, the meat industry is an example of mankind exerting its dominance over "lesser" forms and treating them in a horrendous manner.

Essentially I have ethical issues with the meat industry.