Why are you an Atheist? (disclaimer included)

[Aught3]

Always been an atheist, didn't always know what that word meant but I always knew I didn't believe gods existed.

 

[Andiferous]

Aught3: in regards to child development, I somewhat find that difficult to understand, because children don't really have beliefs either way and learn by experience and play. So didn't at one point you at least pretend to belief?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Two things:

1) I had terrible nightmares when I was a kid. Like, almost night terrors. I slept in Superman pajamas and a cape, and kept a glow in the dark sword by my bed for protection. Too much imagination, and I was reading WAY above my grade level. I remember being in like 2nd grade and older girls dragging me over to their friends to hear me read things.

Anyways, my parents got a bit sick of me sneaking into their grown-up books and freaking myself out all the time. Lots of mythology books in the house for some reason too.I think the final straw was Cujo, if I recall correctly the book starts with the kid seeing a monster in the closet. My parents explained to me that stories with talking animals and magic and monsters were just make-believe, and I shouldn't expect Stephen King novels to come true at 3AM.

2) Never believed in Santa Claus. My mom grew up in a crappy family, and her birthday is two week before Xmas, so her parents would throw her a birthday party. AT the end, they would take the presents back, and re-wrap them for Xmas. She was always heartbroken about it, and didn't want us to feel that way. So, no Santa and we knew exactly what we were getting. It was explained to me that Santa was something that parents made up and pretended to believe in order to make them behave themselves.

So, that was my atheism in a nutshell. The crazy shit in the Bible was just like the crazy shit in comic books, movies, and novels. The God/Jesus bit was like Santa, keeping the naughty/nice list as giving out gifts and punishments. My parents didn't mean for it to happen that way, and I didn't realize that people actually believed any of that Bible bullshit until I was 11-12 years old. I sort of had a conversation with an adult that went "Come on, we both know none of that is true, I'm old enough for you to drop the act." And then they flipped the fuck out and I realized that the adults in my life were all batshit crazy.

 

[Aught3]

Aught3: in regards to child development, I somewhat find that difficult to understand, because children don't really have beliefs either way and learn by experience and play. So didn't at one point you at least pretend to belief?

When would I have done that? We never went to church, I never met a priest, and only saw someone praying once when I was a child (I thought it was so weird). I distinctly remember the first time I even thought about religion, it was my first year of intermediate and I got a form to fill in about myself. One of the questions asked which religion you were. My response: I don't have a religion.

 

[Andiferous]

Two things:

1) I had terrible nightmares when I was a kid. Like, almost night terrors. I slept in Superman pajamas and a cape, and kept a glow in the dark sword by my bed for protection. Too much imagination, and I was reading WAY above my grade level. I remember being in like 2nd grade and older girls dragging me over to their friends to hear me read things.

Oddly, me too, to an extreme. (Although I wasn't allowed to read Stephen King).

2) Never believed in Santa Claus. My mom grew up in a crappy family, and her birthday is two week before Xmas, so her parents would throw her a birthday party. AT the end, they would take the presents back, and re-wrap them for Xmas. She was always heartbroken about it, and didn't want us to feel that way. So, no Santa and we knew exactly what we were getting. It was explained to me that Santa was something that parents made up and pretended to believe in order to make them behave themselves.

I didn't need Santa as an incentive, there. I just used him to get presents and play magic Christmas with my parents. Say what you will, those were some of the best memories I have of childhood.

So, that was my atheism in a nutshell. The crazy shit in the Bible was just like the crazy shit in comic books, movies, and novels. The God/Jesus bit was like Santa, keeping the naughty/nice list as giving out gifts and punishments. My parents didn't mean for it to happen that way, and I didn't realize that people actually believed any of that Bible bullshit until I was 11-12 years old. I sort of had a conversation with an adult that went "Come on, we both know none of that is true, I'm old enough for you to drop the act." And then they flipped the fuck out and I realized that the adults in my life were all batshit crazy.

I never really saw Santa as a tyrant, after all, mom was the one to buy the presents.

Adults were crazy. I started arguing about religious formalities fairly early on, and I learned quickly that they lacked logic. So I just stopped arguing stuff with them. i took religious studies classes through to eighteen years old, and by 14 I learned how to ask challenging questions in subtle ways, so as to not be rebuked immediately. I sat on my criticism for a long time, wrote a somewhat inflamatory essay for my highschool government exam, and had to go through quite a bit of controversy in the grading process.

Aught3: in regards to child development, I somewhat find that difficult to understand, because children don't really have beliefs either way and learn by experience and play. So didn't at one point you at least pretend to belief?

When would I have done that? We never went to church, I never met a priest, and only saw someone praying once when I was a child (I thought it was so weird). I distinctly remember the first time I even thought about religion, it was my first year of intermediate and I got a form to fill in about myself. One of the questions asked which religion you were. My response: I don't have a religion.

But I even pretended I was a greek god.

I'm still baptised, so not even sure what to sign on forms.

 

[Thomas Doubting]

But I even pretended I was a greek god.

I'm still baptised, so not even sure what to sign on forms.

LOL! in that case i would write "Ares", my name is actually the name of a slavic war God.. So Ares would be the closest choice when it comes to the Greek mythology and my personality :mrgreen:

I used to write eskimo when they asked me of my religion, that was my way to tell them to f**k off

 

[Andiferous]

I applaud your bravery, there. Yes, I played many roles between Princess Leah, to Wonder woman and Super Girl, to Artemis. You play god too?

Just as an aside, we do have 'eskimo' in my country, and they go by the term 'inuit.' Each tribe also has its' own name and practices, so they frown on the old word 'eskimo' around here. (in Canada, btw. ) They generally don't live in igloos any more too, which seems to be a common joke.

 

[Thomas Doubting]

I was buidling igloos with my brother when i was a child, and eskimo is just a term i liked to use, not meant to insult them or anything, more the opposite.
They are coexisting with the nature more than any of us and they call themselves "human" (i think that is what inuit means) which is the best point to start with, i still take that position when it comes to EVERYTHING.
Everybody is human to start with, can turn out to be an idiot, a racist, an ignorant etc, but they start as humans and will always be humans for me, their religion and skin color and where they live etc has no meaning for me as such, only if that what they use to define oneself is affecting their way to communicate and interact with others, which then puts them in the aforementioned groups I use to define people. An idiot is an idiot, despite anything he calls himself.

And yes i used to pretend to be God and quote their idiotic books, but it got me beaten up a few times.. which is a good thing actually, i do not turn the other cheek and i learned to stand my ground

 

[televator]

What if about 40-60% of your country were "jumping off a bridge" in a more figurative sense for no good reason? If they abandoned science or any man made solution to economic problems?

 

[Andiferous]

If a hundred of my friends were committing suicide on the bridge I'd try to say something, but given the analogy, I probably couldn't stop them directly. I also would let a bunch of my fellow Canadians make personal choices in matters such as religion.

I could rattle on for a long time on the subject, but in short I don't believe that the well educated masses ever suffer for having more information, and in some cases, learning religions and differing viewpoints is excellent education. If we fear their susceptibility to brainwashing, then perhaps they lack the fundamental basics of education.

If we lack in the fundamentals of education, we ought to rethink the entire process with regards to our children.

With a proper education, a scenario like you describe could not exist.

 

[Thomas Doubting]

If a hundred of my friends were committing suicide on the bridge I'd try to say something, but given the analogy, I probably couldn't stop them directly. I also would let a bunch of my fellow Canadians make personal choices in matters such as religion.

I could rattle on for a long time on the subject, but in short I don't believe that the well educated masses ever suffer for having more information, and in some cases, learning religions and differing viewpoints is excellent education. If we fear their susceptibility to brainwashing, then perhaps they lack the fundamental basics of education.

If we lack in the fundamentals of education, we ought to rethink the entire process with regards to our children.

With a proper education, a scenario like you describe could not exist.

Well that is when fundamentalists come into play.. deluded muslims and christians (mainly) who teach their children that their teachers are working for satan and are out to deceive them, if the schools are secular to start with.. children being forced to pray at school and learn "creation science", free thinkers stigmatized and punished, isolated at the least.

I am glad that you have a good feeling about your country.. but the big picture is far from being that good, and you can see that everywhere, example Missionaries armed with bibles go to "spread the word of their holy imaginary friend" and teach people to kill witches and fight usage of condoms etc etc etc., young earthers and creationists fighting education in the USA, muslims in the UK demanding their children to be taught Islam at schools etc, isolating them and promoting intolerant behavior and hatred towards other religions and funnily, even more towards atheism, people swearing in the name of their God that the world will not come to peace before their religion spreads to the farthest corner of the world and everybody else converted or eradicated..
Just few examples of what i think is very sick and dangerous about this world.

 

[televator]

With a proper education, a scenario like you describe could not exist.

Exactly, now take into account that many of these people also want to undermine education. Confuse people into thinking intelligent design is just as legitimate as evolution, that cosmology supports their god, keep teens ignorant about sexuality and the risks of teen pregnancy, enforce that an entire nation can only be united under the one true Yahweh, revise history to portray conservative leaders as the good guys while downplaying civil rights movements. Is this an educational institution or a propaganda camp? Public education is the broadest battlefield of the war of ideas and not caring to interject is profound negligence. I also don't think "public education" really has defined borders and that is how my attitude is framed.

 

[Andiferous]

Thomas:

I've already pointed out that until university, I had been raised in an entirely Catholic program within school - but in my situation, my government regulated standard and determined most of the cirriculum to ensure that my education was on par with the public system. Ironically, standardised testing gave my class better results than the public system within my region. So I can't believe it's impossible to have a daily religious class and a few prayers and not learn the basics...

I don't think it's easy to balance the two, or to regulate education systems to that degree. I really have no clue how it is done. But it's not impossible.

The focus must be on education first, I think; and learning about religion tends to fall naturally into the whole learning process.


Televator: I'm forced to honesty here in saying that the education system within the US falls behind many top world standards, and of course it requires improvement. (we all do really.)

It is a sad fact that an elementary school friend of mine emmigrated to Arizona for several years. When he returned, he was more than a half a year behind on our cirriculum and was almost forced to repeat a grade.

In regards to the propoganda stuff: I dunno; I learned more European/global history than local stuff.

 

[televator]

Two things:

1) I had terrible nightmares when I was a kid. Like, almost night terrors. I slept in Superman pajamas and a cape, and kept a glow in the dark sword by my bed for protection. Too much imagination, and I was reading WAY above my grade level. I remember being in like 2nd grade and older girls dragging me over to their friends to hear me read things.

Oddly, me too, to an extreme. (Although I wasn't allowed to read Stephen King).

Me three... I used to hear some terrifying things as a kid, and I used to wake up shouting because I was being chased by witches, wear wolves and all manner of monsters in my dreams.

Funny thing is what a contrast it is how I am now. When the lights go out or there's a strange noise and someone makes a comment about how scary that is, but you'll see me heading right into it to investigate/fix it.

And yes, Andi our education is...broken on most places. It's only due to get worse now that diploma mills/ for profit colleges are on the rise.

 

[Andiferous]

Two things:

1) I had terrible nightmares when I was a kid. Like, almost night terrors. I slept in Superman pajamas and a cape, and kept a glow in the dark sword by my bed for protection. Too much imagination, and I was reading WAY above my grade level. I remember being in like 2nd grade and older girls dragging me over to their friends to hear me read things.

Me three... I used to hear some terrifying things as a kid, and I used to wake up shouting because I was being chased by witches, wear wolves and all manner of monsters in my dreams.

Funny thing is what a contrast it is how I am now. When the lights go out or there's a strange noise and someone makes a comment about how scary that is, but you'll see me heading right into it to investigate/fix it.

That's really interesting, me too. It takes a lot to scare me these days, and I haven't been shaken by a horror movie since I was a teenager. Which is the complete opposite of what I was as a kid. I literally went to sleep nights on end with my eyes open and all lights on until I fell unconcious.

 

[nasher168]

I remember not believing it from a very early age. I felt nothing in prayer during school assemblies and disliked the idea of having to go through it. When I told my mother this she said I was "too young" to make that conclusion. She's atheist (though she doesn't use that term) and thought the best method of parenting with regards to religion was to maintain absolute neutrality on the subject and let me make up my own mind. My Dad was more vocally atheist (though he again dislikes the title, doesn't think it's necessary to have a label), praising people like Philip Pullman as "clever" and frequently ridiculing the church and Christianity.

 

[Sparky]

I should really be asleep so I'll keep this short! I was brought up in a moderate (for NZ so pretty mild) Christian family. Went to church and so on from an early age through till round 5 to 10 or so and then we sort of just stopped going. I think my dad was just getting busy at work by this point so he decided he would rather spend his Sunday mornings sleeping. My deconversion was a really gradual process but I guess there was a point that stands out for me - an epiphany if you will - that lead to me disbelieving in god/s. It was during a chemistry class at school when I was 17 when I suddenly clicked to the concept of the god of the gaps by reasoning that we are getting better at explaining the universe all the time, and that it is always done using purely natural phenomena so what reason should there be for a god existing?


i imagine that if NZ wasn't so relaxed about religion I would have probably deconverted much earlier however religion was never really a big thing to me or my friends so the issue was never brought to mind often until my later teens when I started getting more philosophical and not just enjoying the pure sciences.

About the dreams that everyone's going on about too: has anyone been the monster in their dreams? I have bee once - weird experience...

 

[RedYellow]

My family went to a bible study group that didn't really consider themselves a church, called the 'Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research' founded by this guy in the 50's. This instilled in me a casual belief in God, since there was never really any pressure put on me to believe, just everyone around me spoke of Yahweh continually. But as I grew and absorbed information, my sense of a God became unstable. I typically went through various forms of soft spirituality, trying to reconcile my interest in the supernatural with my increasingly critical view of the world. I came to view god as a very anthropomorphic projection, who's story seemed too conveniently tailored to appeal to our fears and take advantage of them. Not to mention the desperation visible in the minds of believers and how they just need to be 'right' no matter what.

I came to understand that reality cannot be expected to owe us an ultimate explanation or purpose, that at some point it can only be what we choose to make of it. And if there is a god, it most likely isn't what the louder voices among us are describing. I also understand that it isn't my responsibility to find the god that hides himself, if there's something really important at stake then it's his responsibility to make me aware of this, otherwise I can only go on what I can reasonably know about reality, which currently tells me there's probably not a god, or afterlife, or sin, or a soul.

 

[Deleted member 619]

Why? Really?

How? Dunno, because I've always been so. I just couldn't ever blot out the preposterousness of it all. Since I began to spend some time learing about how out observations really work, I didn't have any choice.

It would be like asking a blind man why he doesn't see traffic.

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

Why?

Because I follow the evidence of something or lack thereof........