Who Does Prof. Richard Dawkins Vote For?

[stulogic]

apologies if the following is typo-riddled, I'm short on time...

stulogic firstly the childish Nu Labias name calling has no place in an adult conversation if you want to be taken seriously then cut that nonsense out.

Quite why you assume I care about how you percieve me I've no idea.

Starting with standard of living I agree that the gap between the poor and middle class and the rich has widened which is a disgrace however it puzzles me that you think that the Tory party would have lessened this had they been in power taking into account their traditional pro-corporatism. I would love for you to state how the Tory party would not have been worse?

At which point did I say they would have lessened this? I'm not here to wax hypothetical. The fact of the matter is the economy and the standard of living is down the drain. Let's not forget, labour took a lot of the glory for the economy when times were good. Glory which they had no entitlement to, as for all the previous tory government were far from faultless, it was their prudence that had enabled us to amass national savings and actually stand on sound financial ground. What a difference 12 years makes. I'll point out now that whilst I'll be voting conservative this time round, I'm certainly no hardened Tory. I just have a knack for seeing when things are broken.

Again with laws I find it odd that a party that has traditionally had a far more draconian line on law and order would not have brought in worse laws in the back of current terrorism in a similar mould to the Republicans in the US.

How do you come to the conclusion that they have a far more draconian line on law when the simple fact of the matter is labour have introduced literally thousands of new laws, I'm sure even you can admit some of them are fankly pathetic in their implementation. It's nothing more than a nanny state.

Sharia law has only been brought in in CIVIL law and the law of the land still takes presidence not a situation I agree with in anyway though I can understand the argument that why when other faiths are allowed religious civil land would Islam not be. And the party of clause 28 doesn't have the moral authority it criticise anyway.

Yes I know it's 'only' civil law, but it still has no place here. We have our own legal system, (it's even got an area for civil matters) one which is wholly incompatible with Sharia law, the combination of both only serves to isolate them further from our legal system and muddy the waters.

Motoring : If you speed tough shit on the fine don't speed and you won't be giving out any revenue I have no patience for twats that moan after breaking a very clear law.

Yes, because all motoring offences boil down to speeding don't they? A somewhat unsurprising attitude though.
As for the twats comment, somewhat hipocritical given the first comment you made in reply to my original post, no?

Not a climate change skeptic could have fooled me. The evidence is there because you have chosen not to seek it out makes no difference.

I'm happy to entertain any thoughts of your own you might have on the matter. I'll point out I have actually taken the time to study many of the facts as well as the fiction, and remain open to recieving further evidence on the subject, as I originally said. Of course there's climate change, I don't need my degree in thermodynamics to tell me that, what I said regarding man's impact on it remains valid. I'd love to hear your categoric evidence of MMGW though.

As for Iraq and other wars the Tory party supported both and there is no evidence that they would have magically found massive amounts of extra funding. Total UK dead in Iraq is under 200 a shocking figure but far from your lie of "THOUSANDS".

My apologies, I mis-edited that when rewriting my post. Not a lie, a simple oversight on my part however, but yes you are correct. Thanks for the benefit of the doubt though.

Business: We clearly didn't regulate enough

Given labour have proven unable to regulate themselves of late that's hardly surprising, but again, I'm not going to sit hear and claim the conservatives have been perfect in the past. There's a lot more to it than regulation, indeed it's possible to over-regulate.

. These are bought votes, nothing else. : so all civil servants automatically vote labour :lol:

if you truly believe that statement was an absolute, I'm wasting my time writing this reply. Of course I don't believe that, only the hard of thinking would. However when it's fairly obvious from much of the political discussion at the conferences, and in the media at the minute, that fairly heavy cuts are going to be needed pretty soon, and that it's been Tory policy for quite some time given how obvious it is to all but a labour voter that they cannot sustain this financial burdon. We simply cannot feed that many mouthes and it only serves to make government departments inefficient, or rather more-so. Thus it's fairly obvious that an easy vote to get is the one who you offer to protect from the big bad tories who just want to chop chop chop.

- the constant back stabbing and broken promises : backstabbing in the sad nature of politics and the Tory party have been masters at it

can't disagree with you there. I don't see any ideal party in our current political system, infact we're so close to two party politics it's scary frankly. Merely some that aren't quite as bad as others. None are whiter than white, none have ever been held accountible for not sticking to their manifesto, and none have ever done a perfect job. I'd argue that labour have been equally, if not more guilty of it, especially in recent years.

- Brown claiming he'd ended Boom and bust culture so he peed away our gold reserves: gold is no longer economically important in the same way this is just an ignorant point

you obviously have very little understanding of how the markets work. I can't be bothered to give you a lesson in economics and trading, safe to say you couldn't be more wrong in that statement if you wanted to.

- Education is on its proverbial arse. Qualifications have been thoroughly devalued, the cost of gaining university education is getting rediculous, the validity and worth of any qualifications below that? not worth the toilet paper it's written on. : Coming from the party of non investment in education this is laughable

One would argue that never before have those who are in, or who could/would/should be in education- been failed to the extent they are being failed now, not in recent times at least. The facts speak for themselves, we're slipping down the international rankings at an alarming rate, we've got a record number of young people not learning or earning. Yes, education needs big investment. As I've admitted, no party has got running a government 100% right, ever. Certainly not in this country, and certainly not in recent years. But there has to be a limit on how much one government can get it wrong before a change is needed. It was needed in 1997, it happened in 1997. It's needed again now.

- Crime is soaring despite the nannying state : no it isn't but feel free to make shit up

I don't need to. I have the stats for my local area, and 18 other areas sat next to me as I write this. Do feel free to bring the ones you're reading to the table instead of making idiotic responses like the one above. I'm sure they'll be the lovely cherry picked ones that I'm expecting, infact I can probably remember some of the numbers from them.

- billions pumped into the NHS IT system, where is it? : Look at the waiting lists and compare to under the last Tory government

Which has what to do with a pretty much non-functional ,£15bn project that's 5 years overdue? If you want to discuss hospital efficiency I'm all too happy to, I'll start with my 2 family members that have died as a result of NHS negligence and ineptitude, and my partners loss of her father through gross negligence. If you want to discuss waiting lists I'll happily go into the 18 months my grandmother has been waiting for a simple hernia operation despite being given the all clear for - they may be better, but they're hardly perfect. I don't blame labour for all of the NHS' downfalls, far from it, there's too many fundamental flaws for it to be attributed to one time period or party. But let's not overlook the fact there's essentially ,£15bn quid missing from the coffers with little to show for it. I'm thankful I can afford private healthcare put it that way.

- billions upon billions pumped into the national ID card scheme, against advice, it's massively overdue, it's still disliked: stupid idea there is no doubt

Glad we agree on something

- human rights being used as an excuse for anything when really it was a good principle originally. Now it's a synonym for spinelessness. : clause 28

Perhaps 2 things, assuming that's the same thing as Section 28?



One thing I'd like to ask, what's your thoughts on the lisbon treaty and the lack of a referendum?

Stu

 

[australopithecus]

You would seriously consider giving labour your vote? Far be it from me to question your right to do so, it is supposedly a democracy we live in after all, but I'm curious as to what grounds you'd vote for them?

At the moment I have no grounds to vote for them over any other party which is why I'm quietly watching to see how everything unfolds up until the election. Other than always having voted Labour (which is by no means a reason to vote for them again), there is no specific reason why i should vote for them if I had to vote today.

I'll reserve final judgement until the election campaigns, not that any I expect any party to do what they say they'll do. But I'm leaning more in favour of the Lib Dems as of now, just because I'm disillusioned with the Labour and the Tories.

Yes, every party makes mistakes. What followed poll tax was a mistake.

No arguement here.

Dipping ones wick in edwina curry is a huge mistake <vom>.

I really didn't need to be reminded of that... :facepalm:

What's been done to this country in the last dozen years is unforgivable in my opinion.

Again, every government fucks up, it's to be expected. It's just the level of vitriol directed at Brown seems a little OTT. I wont defend some of the things Labour have done in the last 12 years, Iraq, university top up fees...etc, but then it hasn't been a complete loss and as for the current economic crisis, I fail to see what blaming the government acomplishes.

 

[dr_esteban]

I had a longer response but for some reason it hasn't posted. The only question I will ask is why would the Tory party be better? You have yet to answer this to any degree.

 

[MRaverz]

Wait a second, Dawkins claims to have always voted Lib Dems but in The Selfish Gene (30th Anniversary Edition) he states the following:

In 1975, when it was written, a socialist government which I had helped to vote in was battling desperately against 23 per cent inflation, and was obviously concerned about high wage claims.

So Dawkins once voted Labour?

Edit: My fault, I erred, for I did not realise that the Liberal Democrats were founded in 1988.

There was however a liberal party pre 1988 that predated labour

The Liberal Party merged with the Social Democrat party after a seven year alliance I believe, forming the Social Liberal Democratic Party - later being shortened to the Liberal Democrats.

I did my research.

 

[Marcus]

The politics of this country are in serious danger of starting to mirror the entrenched two party system in the US. I don't agree with everything the Lib Dems stand for, but the more people that vote for them, the closer we will get to a reform of the political system that will allow us to choose to vote for a party we actually like, rather than the one we hate least.

Besides, Labour need to be out of government and anyone who votes Tory is a git who wants to freeze my wages.

 

[dr_esteban]

The politics of this country are in serious danger of starting to mirror the entrenched two party system in the US. I don't agree with everything the Lib Dems stand for, but the more people that vote for them, the closer we will get to a reform of the political system that will allow us to choose to vote for a party we actually like, rather than the one we hate least.

Besides, Labour need to be out of government and anyone who votes Tory is a git who wants to freeze my wages.

I don't really see how the UK is following the US, there have been 2 major parties in the UK for a very long time. I would say the main difference in the UK is that we don't have quite the element of madness and reality denial that exists very strongly in the GOP. As for electoral reform I am totally against proportional representation, as in my mind to would lead to weak governments and small fringe parties acting as power brokers.

 

[Marcus]

I don't really see how the UK is following the US, there have been 2 major parties in the UK for a very long time. I would say the main difference in the UK is that we don't have quite the element of madness and reality denial that exists very strongly in the GOP.

There have been two main parties for some time, but they are far from being the only game in town, and there are plenty of elected officials from other parties at all levels below that of the cabinet and shadow cabinet. In the US, parties other than the main two have next to no elected officials anywhere, no power to speak of and limited media presence. In the UK, the press report on the Lib Dem conference as much as they do on the main two, and their spokespeople are regularly asked for comment on all major issues by the mainstream media. The danger of the current electoral system is that only two parties have any chance of forming the national government, and this could well lead to other parties becoming as marginalised as they are in the US, leading to a thoroughly broken political system where most people think they're voting for the lesser of two evils rather than genuinely choosing a political party which concurs with their views on a variety of issues.

As for electoral reform I am totally against proportional representation, as in my mind to would lead to weak governments and small fringe parties acting as power brokers.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I want my genuine political views to have an influence on the way the country is governed. So does everyone else. The problem is that both the Labour and Conservative parties are a bunch of dickwits with the moral fibre and rational thinking skills of a randy syphilitic lobotomised bonobo who does nothing but watch reality TV all day. If the government has to be formed in coalition, that means they will have to make some concessions to people with sane political views. The fringe parties may have some sway, but if that is enough to affect the way the country is run, then they have earned that democratic right and we properly need to deny them such by persuading people not to vote for them.

 

[dr_esteban]

You say that like it's a bad thing. I want my genuine political views to have an influence on the way the country is governed. So does everyone else. The problem is that both the Labour and Conservative parties are a bunch of dickwits with the moral fibre and rational thinking skills of a randy syphilitic lobotomised bonobo who does nothing but watch reality TV all day. If the government has to be formed in coalition, that means they will have to make some concessions to people with sane political views. The fringe parties may have some sway, but if that is enough to affect the way the country is run, then they have earned that democratic right and we properly need to deny them such by persuading people not to vote for them.

name calling like this is why there are few reasoned political debates

 

[Icefire9atla]

I honestly don't care who Dawkins votes for.

I don't see why anybody factors in endorsements (and the like) in who they vote for.

 

[Marcus]

name calling like this is why there are few reasoned political debates

If you dislike hyperbolic rhetorical flourishes, try this equivalent version:

I want my genuine political views to have an influence on the way the country is governed. So does everyone else. The problem is that both the Labour and Conservative parties are so mired in their ways that neither is fit to govern the country. If the government has to be formed in coalition, that means they will have to make some concessions to people with sane political views. The fringe parties may have some sway, but if that is enough to affect the way the country is run, then they have earned that democratic right and we properly need to deny them such by persuading people not to vote for them.