Who Does Prof. Richard Dawkins Vote For?

[nbarrett100]

The liberal Democrats thats who. The ony British party with an atheist leader, NIck Clegg, however he is happy that his children are attending a Catholic school.

here is his speech at their party conference.

 

[MRaverz]

This is good news for me, seeing as I intend to vote Lib Dems myself. xD

 

[Fullmetalgeneticist]

Meh the problem is they really have no long term plans and are a tad naiive... I used to vote them but now am favouring towards labour... As the lesser of two evils who can do something...

 

[MRaverz]

Meh the problem is they really have no long term plans and are a tad naiive... I used to vote them but now am favouring towards labour... As the lesser of two evils who can do something...

I would have to agree that it seems like it's either Labour or the Tories who can do something, people just have a tendency to vote for the same party if they're happy and vote for the opposing if they are unhappy.

Democracy sucks. xD

 

[blinddesign]

Don't vote- it's gay.

 

[MRaverz]

Don't vote- it's gay.

Don't not vote - it's both fascist and gay.

And you don't want to be a gay fascist.

 

[Photolysis]

As the lesser of two evils who can do something...

Well if you're counting running the country in to the ground as something...

 

[jrparri]

I'd like to vote for a party that actually does what the Democratic party says it'll do.

... jus' sayin'

 

[dr_esteban]

As the lesser of two evils who can do something...

Well if you're counting running the country in to the ground as something...

if by running into the ground you mean the party that sustained a historic economic stability and then ran into one of the worst banking crisis in history then yes I guess he means that party.

I'm not even sure who i will vote for though it will be lib dem or labour but if you want to see a party that ran the UK into the ground look at the Tories in 97.

 

[JacobEvans]

As an American, the word "Torrie" simply means traitor :lol:

 

[Photolysis]

if by running into the ground you mean the party that sustained a historic economic stability and then ran into one of the worst banking crisis in history then yes I guess he means that party.

I'm not even sure who i will vote for though it will be lib dem or labour but if you want to see a party that ran the UK into the ground look at the Tories in 97.

Or if I mean running in to the ground as in bankrupting us, or otherwise destroying it. Way to try and deflect.

The previous Tory government made some large mistakes, but they didn't run the country in to the ground. Blair and Brown were only able to waste as much money as they did because of the financial prudence displayed previously. They took full credit for the economy but had little to do with it. Conversely Brown was partially responsible for the banking crisis, and because of his years of financial mismanagement (and general Labour overspending) was certainly responsible for the large impact it had on the UK.

The fact that anyone would even consider voting for Labour, particularly someone who managed to find their way on this site (and therefore presumably more intelligent than average), scares the hell out of me. Are you really that blind to the repeated massive failures on almost every issue? Crime, education, health, foreign policy, finance, immigration. Have you not paid any attention to anything this government has done?

 

[MRaverz]

Politics is stupid because it attempts to achieve perfection in an imperfect world.

No party is perfect, it could also be argued that no party is really any good. So in the end, we're just doomed to hoping that we get some decent candidates.

 

[dr_esteban]

if by running into the ground you mean the party that sustained a historic economic stability and then ran into one of the worst banking crisis in history then yes I guess he means that party.

I'm not even sure who i will vote for though it will be lib dem or labour but if you want to see a party that ran the UK into the ground look at the Tories in 97.

Or if I mean running in to the ground as in bankrupting us, or otherwise destroying it. Way to try and deflect.

The previous Tory government made some large mistakes, but they didn't run the country in to the ground. Blair and Brown were only able to waste as much money as they did because of the financial prudence displayed previously. They took full credit for the economy but had little to do with it. Conversely Brown was partially responsible for the banking crisis, and because of his years of financial mismanagement (and general Labour overspending) was certainly responsible for the large impact it had on the UK.

The fact that anyone would even consider voting for Labour, particularly someone who managed to find their way on this site (and therefore presumably more intelligent than average), scares the hell out of me. Are you really that blind to the repeated massive failures on almost every issue? Crime, education, health, foreign policy, finance, immigration. Have you not paid any attention to anything this government has done?

Crime has fallen under labour which is supported by the statistics
Education funding is massively higher.
Waiting lists are greatly lower as compared to under the Tory party due to increased investment
Labour's major foreign policy cock up (Iraq) was supported fully by the Conservatives
finance: all those stable years were the product of the party that led to the devaluation of the pound? :lol:
immigration: the major screw up was listening to right wing idiots ageing population = need for immigration

Can you even remember the political climate in 1997?

And how very self-congratulatory "particularly someone who managed to find their way on this site (and therefore presumably more intelligent than average)"

People remember they remember the Tory parties views on section 28, they remember the party that allowed large areas of the north, Wales and Scotland being left to rot. How anyone could vote for the party of Daniel Hannan puzzles me greatly.

 

[australopithecus]

At this point I don't think it matters, the Tories are going to win any general election held in the near future unless Brown does something truely epic like crap a cure for cancer. I for one however will not be voting Conservative. I've paid attention to what Labour have done these past 12 years, and I think it's quite unfair to blame Blair/Brown for 'running the country into the ground'. The economic crisis and everything that followed would have happened regardless of which party was govenering, and yes they've made mistakes but then what government hasn't?

Whether or not I vote Labour or Lib Dem I will deicde in the mean time.

 

[MRaverz]

At this point I don't think it matters, the Tories are going to win any general election held in the near future unless Brown does something truely epic like crap a cure for cancer. I for one however will not be voting Conservative. I've paid attention to what Labour have done these past 12 years, and I think it's quite unfair to blame Blair/Brown for 'running the country into the ground'. The economic crisis and everything that followed would have happened regardless of which party was govenering, and yes they've made mistakes but then what government hasn't?

Whether or not I vote Labour or Lib Dem I will deicde in the mean time.

Vote Liberal Democrats.

 

[dr_esteban]

At this point I don't think it matters, the Tories are going to win any general election held in the near future unless Brown does something truely epic like crap a cure for cancer. I for one however will not be voting Conservative. I've paid attention to what Labour have done these past 12 years, and I think it's quite unfair to blame Blair/Brown for 'running the country into the ground'. The economic crisis and everything that followed would have happened regardless of which party was govenering, and yes they've made mistakes but then what government hasn't?

Whether or not I vote Labour or Lib Dem I will deicde in the mean time.

George Osbourne saying he will raise the retirement age while also saying he will cut taxes for the rich seems to be a rather stupid move though I highly doubt they will lose. On the other hand Kinnock lost an unloseable position in 92 so anything is possible if the economy gets better.

 

[MRaverz]

Wait a second, Dawkins claims to have always voted Lib Dems but in The Selfish Gene (30th Anniversary Edition) he states the following:</SIZE>

In 1975, when it was written, a socialist government which I had helped to vote in was battling desperately against 23 per cent inflation, and was obviously concerned about high wage claims.

<SIZE size="85">

So Dawkins once voted Labour?

Edit: My fault, I erred, for I did not realise that the Liberal Democrats were founded in 1988.

 

[dr_esteban]

Wait a second, Dawkins claims to have always voted Lib Dems but in The Selfish Gene (30th Anniversary Edition) he states the following:</SIZE>

In 1975, when it was written, a socialist government which I had helped to vote in was battling desperately against 23 per cent inflation, and was obviously concerned about high wage claims.

<SIZE size="85">

So Dawkins once voted Labour?

Edit: My fault, I erred, for I did not realise that the Liberal Democrats were founded in 1988.

There was however a liberal party pre 1988 that predated labour

 

[stulogic]

This is going to be an epic post btw, so I doubt anyone will bother reading it, but I've a spleen that needs venting.

I couldn't care less if Dawkins resurrected Darwin, they both went out and got We Love You Stu Please Vote Lib Dem tattoos, then came to my house and sat extolling the virtues of lib-dems over a nice cup of tea - I still wouldn't vote for them.

Once upon a time they had their own political ideas, some sillier ones but some were very sensible. Lots of them could never actually be implemented and were just pie in the sky, but there were a few good ones in there. These days they're just "Labour-Lite", the only reason people give them consideration is because of the bloody idiots we've got at the helm at the minute. It'd be a brief moment of hilarity watching them fumbling around trying to form a useful, workable government, followed by 4 years of regret as it comes down like a house of cards.

As for not voting, that really isn't an option, people fought damn hard for that vote, and it seems crazy to me that people could be so apethetic towards how their country is run.

At this point I don't think it matters, the Tories are going to win any general election held in the near future unless Brown does something truely epic like crap a cure for cancer. I for one however will not be voting Conservative. I've paid attention to what Labour have done these past 12 years, and I think it's quite unfair to blame Blair/Brown for 'running the country into the ground'. The economic crisis and everything that followed would have happened regardless of which party was govenering, and yes they've made mistakes but then what government hasn't?

Whether or not I vote Labour or Lib Dem I will deicde in the mean time.

I sincerely hope the tories do get in. This post will probably make me sound like 'Tory Boy" from the Harry Enfield sketches, but I'm willing to suffer people having that perception if my point gets made. We'll see.

You would seriously consider giving labour your vote? Far be it from me to question your right to do so, it is supposedly a democracy we live in after all, but I'm curious as to what grounds you'd vote for them? Yes, every party makes mistakes. What followed poll tax was a mistake. Dipping ones wick in edwina curry is a huge mistake <vom>. What's been done to this country in the last dozen years is unforgivable in my opinion.

As for the state of our economy, and let's face it the country as a whole - there's a lot left unanswered, which William Hague's list goes some way to addressing, but by no means all the way;

- ,£22,500 of debt for every child born in Britain
- 111 tax rises from a government that promised no tax rises at all
- The longest national tax code in the world
- 100,000 million pounds drained from British pension funds
- Gun crime up by 57%
- Violent crime up 70%
- The highest proportion of children living in workless households anywhere in Europe
- The number of pensioners living in poverty up by 100,000
- The lowest level of social mobility in the developed world
- The only G7 country with no growth this year
- One in six young people neither earning nor learning
- 5 million people on out-of,work benefits
- Missing the target of halving child poverty
- Ending up with child poverty rising in each of the last three years instead
- Cancer survival rates among the worst in Europe
- Hospital-acquired infections killing nearly three times as many people as are killed on the roads
- Falling from 4th to 13th in the world competitiveness league
- Falling from 8th to 24th in the world education rankings in maths
- Falling from 7th to 17th in the rankings in literacy
- The police spending more time on paperwork than on the beat
- Fatal stabbings at an all-time high
- Prisoners released without serving their sentences
- Foreign prisoners released and never deported
- 7 million people without an NHS dentist
- Small business taxes going up
- Business taxes raised from among the lowest to among the highest in Europe
- Tax rises for working people set for after the election
- The 10p tax rate abolished
- And the ludicrous promise to have ended boom and bust
- Our gold reserves sold for a quarter of their worth
- Our armed forces overstretched and under-supplied
- Profitable post offices closed against their will
- One of the highest rates of family breakdown in Europe
- The 'Golden Rule' on borrowing abandoned when it didn't fit
- Police inspectors in 10,Downing Street
- Dossiers that were dodgy
- Mandelson resigning the first time
- Mandelson resigning the second time
- Mandelson coming back for a third time
- Bad news buried
- Personal details lost of
- An election bottled
- A referendum on the lisbon treaty denied

Want to see a list of all the taxes they've introduced? Both direct and Stealth taxes? It's huge but I'll gladly post it if you like. Suffice to say it's comfortably up there in the trillions. I do have a brief summary of it to hand if you'd like to see, just ask.

standards of living etc
The fact of the matter is standards of living have been driven down for the middle classes, we've got big brother constantly trying to interfere in our lives because we're obviously too stupid to think for ourselves - more CCTV cameras per person than any other country in the world despite several authorative figures and experts reporting they're a total waste of capital, and as a ratio of the crimes solved by CCTV to the capital spent on CCTV and numbers of cameras installed - the figures simply do not stack up favourably.

Laws
We have had more laws added under Nu Labias 12 years in the hot seat than the total sum of ALL laws that we had before that.
We've been voted as having the silliest laws in the EU, on more than one occasion. We have terrorism laws which have been abused since day 1. The police cannot be held to blame for it, their targets come from government, as do the laws they are expected to enforce.
Because of this, we've progressively been stripped of our rights as british citizens. You know there's a law that basically, if your vehicle gets reported 3 times in a row you can have the car taken off you under Section 59. You have no right to appeal, it's not something that you go to court and contest. How very just. This wouldn't be so bad if it was being implemented and enforced properly by clear legal structure, but it's wide open to abuse, as has been seen several times on one UK based motoring forum I frequent.

We've been trying so hard thanks to labour to be politically correct, we're in danger of forgetting what our rights are. Take Sharia law for example. It has no place in any civilised western society. It's oppressive, it doesn't fit with our western beliefs, and it has no place in our country. That's an Islamic law, for muslims. Of course, muslims are welcome, but why must we pander to them in fear of offending them by saying "hang on a minute, we're not a muslim country, you obey our laws or you leave". I've lived in 3 muslim countries in the middle east, and whilst they've been tolerant folks and perfectly nice places to live the religion is something you simply get used to. If all the british ex pats there saw fit to try and get their own legal system and their own specific laws they'd be out faster than you can say ''deported''. I love multiculturalism, and I love learning about different cultures, peoples and places, I've spent most of my life doing so, this is no BNP-esque rant. This is common sense saying when you're in someone elses country, you respect the fact that you're essentially a guest, regardless of whether you get a passport or citizenship.

Motoring
Then we've got the motorist, the governments favourite little cash cow. I'm a big petrolhead, I love cars and bikes, and pretty much everything else with an engine. I've devoted a huge part of my life to it and have no shame in admitting it. So this one goes a little close to the bone with me. We have a supposed "safety camera partnership", yes that's right they're for our own safety. Yet they're for the large part covertly placed, with local police forces even using horseboxes, builders vans and so on to nab people for speeding. Because speeding kills. Cobblers, idiots who can't drive kill, inappropriate speed for the situation or circumstance kills. It's nothing more than a very easy system of revenue generation, something they've only recently got round to partially admitting, and something that they've become dependant on to the extent that they can never be gotten rid of. Yet we still have a below average standard of driving and a below average driver education programme compared to many other of the G20 and european countries.

Environmental
Don't worry I'm not a climate change skeptic, MMGW I have my reservations about, I believe it's a sound theory that we still haven't researched enough, that is wrapped in that disgusting labour spin. What I truly despise however is the government thinking they can blindly pile good money on top of bad, money from our pockets, and buy the problem away. They've funded more stupid little ''think tanks'' than I care to remember which have existed only briefly and been forgotten about, and have researched and since shelved so many MMGW related projects it's no longer funny.
Mans impact on the environment in terms of it's changing the climate, and CO2 levels etc, have yet to be fully understood as far as I'm aware, but yet we're being taxed very heavily on the basis that it is. If I was seeing more trees planted, more government employees cutting down on wasted resources like 2 hour, 4 mile car journeys through central london, flights all over the place when not really needed (of course they are sometimes). When they do something about the massive inefficiency of their own departments, and of the larger cities and companies, I'll stop whinging about being the little guy who uses next to no electricity and gas, yet gets reamed because he takes a holiday once a year or enjoys driving his car at the weekend.
Energy efficiency is vital, I'm all for it, I've worked in the energy sector for years (as well as oil and gas), and have waxed lyrical at every place I've worked about cutting costs and improving efficiency, and that includes 350,000 tonne oil tankers. I've even designed equipment and rolled out new operating methods to help reduce pollution from ships. Yet I'm getting taxed to the nines because it's obviously me that's warming the earth. How about we actually do our research before we pile money at a problem? That is effeciency.

War and all that lovely stuff

Under Blair and Winkys watch thousands of our own troops have been killed in iraq, and thousands more killed and still dying in Iraq, in what's fast turning into our own little Veitnam, squandering the lives of british servicemen and women. We've pumped billions upon billions of our budget each year into what many now believe is an unwinnable war. Yet as said we've still got senior ranking personnel claiming they require some pretty important equipment to be able to do their job properly, as they were trained to do it. If you're going to have thousands of our people killed, at least give them a sporting chance.

Business
This is where it hits me the hardest. I have my own company and for the last few years prior to that I've been self employed. The cost of running a business / SME has absolutely skyrocketed. My overheads have essentially doubled because of the changes in taxes, rules, and rediculous legislation I've got to pander to in terms of premises, vehicles, employments, directors responsibilities and so on. This isn't some multi million pound turnover business, It's a simple, small business built up and owned by me and it makes enough for us to get by, pay our bills and have a fairly nice lifestyle in return for putting in massive amounts of hours. I'm the little guy, the average joe. Any yet because I've got the testicular fortitude to go out and try and make something of my life I'm getting absolutely panned for it year on year. I won't go into the figures unless you'd like me to, but needless to say I thoroughly resent being charged for no other reason than revenue generation - I'd care a lot less if they weren't so deft at pi$$ing money up the wall themselves.... don't get me started on red tape and the various government departments I have to deal with....

other labia fails
ahhh the quickfire round...
- over 1.5 million more people employed in the civil service than in 1996. That's 1.5 million state pensions because the idiots in power will open new quangos and pseudo-departments willy nilly. These are bought votes, nothing else.
- the constant back stabbing and broken promises
- Brown claiming he'd ended Boom and bust culture so he peed away our gold reserves
- telling the banks they need to save for a rainy day. Couldn't we do that as country? Lord knows we need to with all the mouths to feed on benefits and in the civil service. I know, how about we put some gold asid.... oh wait....
- Education is on its proverbial arse. Qualifications have been thoroughly devalued, the cost of gaining university education is getting rediculous, the validity and worth of any qualifications below that? not worth the toilet paper it's written on.
- Crime is soaring despite the nannying state
- billions pumped into the NHS IT system, where is it?
- billions upon billions pumped into the national ID card scheme, against advice, it's massively overdue, it's still disliked
- billions planned to be wasted on a nation wide nation wide average speed camera programme.
- human rights being used as an excuse for anything when really it was a good principle originally. Now it's a synonym for spinelessness.
- Using the BBC as a tool for propoganda and bias to spout idiotic rhetoric. Andrew Marr, classic example. Supposed to be unbiased polical commentator. Yet a self proclaimed life long socialist, married to the daughter of a labour peer, who has previous history at management level at the beeb. Fancy that.

That's just a snippet of the things I'm frustrated at, as are a HUGE amount of the public. I could go on for hours, but knowing that I've probably lost most folk by the first paragraph I shalln't.

Once again labour have absolutely knackered the country, lined their pockets as much as possible in the process, and know their on their way out. Assuming Call-Me-Dave doesn't do something very silly it's as good as in the bag. I live in one of the strongest of labour strongholds, and there's already mutterings about the first Tory constituncy here in a very long time happening. If you knew the area you'd appreciate the gravity of that statement.

The biggest problem is that the tories will be given the keys to a complete dead duck. The country is essentially bankrupt. You can't borrow and spend your way out of bankruptcy despite labour trying to desperately. We've got billions or trillions of pounds to find somewhere. Realistically there's only two ways to get that when you've got nothing in the kitty, make cuts or increase taxes.
The faster we rid ourselves of the huge dependancies we have on our state, or at least trim them back to manageable levels, the sooner we can start undoing the damage. The crux of the problem, and what will possibly come back to bite the Conservatives is that realistically only so much can be done in one or two terms of parliament. The damage that this country has taken will have repercussions that stretch a long time ahead of that.

Still, that's enough from me. Not an opinion I expect will be popular on here given the replies so far.

 

[dr_esteban]

stulogic firstly the childish Nu Labias name calling has no place in an adult conversation if you want to be taken seriously then cut that nonsense out.

Starting with standard of living I agree that the gap between the poor and middle class and the rich has widened which is a disgrace however it puzzles me that you think that the Tory party would have lessened this had they been in power taking into account their traditional pro-corporatism. I would love for you to state how the Tory party would not have been worse?

Again with laws I find it odd that a party that has traditionally had a far more draconian line on law and order would not have brought in worse laws in the back of current terrorism in a similar mould to the Republicans in the US.

Sharia law has only been brought in in CIVIL law and the law of the land still takes presidence not a situation I agree with in anyway though I can understand the argument that why when other faiths are allowed religious civil land would Islam not be. And the party of clause 28 doesn't have the moral authority it criticise anyway.

Motoring : If you speed tough shit on the fine don't speed and you won't be giving out any revenue I have no patience for twats that moan after breaking a very clear law.

Not a climate change skeptic could have fooled me. The evidence is there because you have chosen not to seek it out makes no difference.

As for Iraq and other wars the Tory party supported both and there is no evidence that they would have magically found massive amounts of extra funding. Total UK dead in Iraq is under 200 a shocking figure but far from your lie of "THOUSANDS".

Business: We clearly didn't regulate enough

over 1.5 million more people employed in the civil service than in 1996. That's 1.5 million state pensions because the idiots in power will open new quangos and pseudo-departments willy nilly. These are bought votes, nothing else. : so all civil servants automatically vote labour :lol:
- the constant back stabbing and broken promises : backstabbing in the sad nature of politics and the Tory party have been masters at it
- Brown claiming he'd ended Boom and bust culture so he peed away our gold reserves: gold is no longer economically important in the same way this is just an ignorant point
- telling the banks they need to save for a rainy day. Couldn't we do that as country? Lord knows we need to with all the mouths to feed on benefits and in the civil service. I know, how about we put some gold asid.... oh wait.... :
- Education is on its proverbial arse. Qualifications have been thoroughly devalued, the cost of gaining university education is getting rediculous, the validity and worth of any qualifications below that? not worth the toilet paper it's written on. : Coming from the party of non investment in education this is laughable
- Crime is soaring despite the nannying state : no it isn't but feel free to make shit up
- billions pumped into the NHS IT system, where is it? : Look at the waiting lists and compare to under the last Tory government
- billions upon billions pumped into the national ID card scheme, against advice, it's massively overdue, it's still disliked: stupid idea there is no doubt
- billions planned to be wasted on a nation wide nation wide average speed camera programme.
- human rights being used as an excuse for anything when really it was a good principle originally. Now it's a synonym for spinelessness. : clause 28
- Using the BBC as a tool for propoganda and bias to spout idiotic rhetoric. Andrew Marr, classic example. Supposed to be unbiased polical commentator. Yet a self proclaimed life long socialist, married to the daughter of a labour peer, who has previous history at management level at the beeb. Fancy that.