When I am old, I only wish to be this awesome

[malicious_bloke]

Police in northern Germany have seized a World War Two tank which was being kept in a pensioner's cellar.

The Panther tank was removed from the 78-year-old's house in the town of Heikendorf, along with a variety of other military equipment, including a torpedo and an anti-aircraft gun, Der Tagesspiegel website reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-33381772

 

[Visaki]

I understand the need to take explosives away, but why the tank, which wasn't drivable at the moment?

I hope they reimburse him for that stuff. A Pz V in pretty much working order, or easily fixable, will get a hefty prise in auction these days. Hell, the Finnish army sold a Sturmgeschütz III wreck is a very bad condition (the were for example used for target practice, Pic of the wreck) and got well over 100 000 € for it, imagine what a working Pz V would get in an auction. Of course they can say it was, is and will be state property but that'd be a dick move.

 

[Inferno]

It's illegal stuff, that's what it is. The state is well within its right to confiscate illegal, dangerous stuff.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Agreed - it belongs to the military, ergo, the government in the first place - it doesn't belong to a ex-armed forces/civilian unless they actually bought it.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Inferno]

Greetings,

Agreed - it belongs to the military, ergo, the government in the first place - it doesn't belong to a ex-armed forces/civilian unless they actually bought it.

Kindest regards,

James

Which would be illegal under German law, so government it is.

 

[Visaki]

Which would be illegal under German law, so government it is.

Still, the guy has maintained an (almost) operational Pz V and what looks like a mint condition 88mm AA gun and I hope he gets conpensated, or at least recognized, for it. If nothing else put those in some museum and his name in the plack.

I wonder if there actually is a law that forbids you to own a tank? I can get that the gun can't be operational without a (probably special) permit. Then again a tank is a weapon in it's own right even without a working guns with 45 tons of armored fury at your disposal, isn't it? I have no idea what the law says in Germany about it, or even here in Finland.

P.S. On checking that the AA was indeed a 88 I found this article where the mans attorney claims that "all the items were properly demilitarised and registered". Prosecution disagrees.

 

[WarK]

I wonder if there actually is a law that forbids you to own a tank? I can get that the gun can't be operational without a (probably special) permit. Then again a tank is a weapon in it's own right even without a working guns with 45 tons of armored fury at your disposal, isn't it? I have no idea what the law says in Germany about it, or even here in Finland.

You don't need a tank to wreak havoc. Killdozer was a bulldozer modified by some crazy in the US.

What is and what isn't a weapon and what a citizen can own seems to be a complicated matter. Get some idiot politicians and you end up with law that makes it illegal to have a folding knife.

 

[malicious_bloke]

Which would be illegal under German law, so government it is.

Still, the guy has maintained an (almost) operational Pz V and what looks like a mint condition 88mm AA gun and I hope he gets conpensated, or at least recognized, for it. If nothing else put those in some museum and his name in the plack.

I wonder if there actually is a law that forbids you to own a tank? I can get that the gun can't be operational without a (probably special) permit. Then again a tank is a weapon in it's own right even without a working guns with 45 tons of armored fury at your disposal, isn't it? I have no idea what the law says in Germany about it, or even here in Finland.

P.S. On checking that the AA was indeed a 88 I found this article where the mans attorney claims that "all the items were properly demilitarised and registered". Prosecution disagrees.

Not sure of the law in Germany but in the UK you can own a tank if the gun is decommissioned.

I *think* you'd also have trouble making it road-legal, since the treads tend to tear up asphalt quite badly.

But if I were this guy and I wanted to challenge the government's claim to ownership of this gear, i'd make a case that the state that produced these items effectively ceased to exist with the arrest of the Flensburg Government in may 1945.

 

[Inferno]

I wonder if there actually is a law that forbids you to own a tank? I can get that the gun can't be operational without a (probably special) permit. Then again a tank is a weapon in it's own right even without a working guns with 45 tons of armored fury at your disposal, isn't it? I have no idea what the law says in Germany about it, or even here in Finland.

§ 57 of the Waffengesetz (WaffG) clearly states that weapons of war (ABC-weapons, planes, ships, tanks, etc.) (as listed in Appendix 1 - Kriegswaffenliste) can not be purchased and can never be allowed for personal use, with the exception of decommissioned weapons for the use of museums.

But if I were this guy and I wanted to challenge the government's claim to ownership of this gear, i'd make a case that the state that produced these items effectively ceased to exist with the arrest of the Flensburg Government in may 1945.

Irrelevant.

First, it's the current version of the law that's applicable. The guy lives in Germany and has to obey German law, so he'd have to re-register all his weapons. If he hadn't done so after the war, then at the latest he'd have had to do so after the revision of 1976 or of 2003 of the WaffG.

Second, § 40 (5) of the WaffG clearly states that weapons handed down, found or otherwise obtained and already having obtained a license have to be re-registered. The weapon would then be stripped of symbols and decommissioned in which case it would be returned to the owner.
This obviously didn't take place, so the owner failed to follow $ 40 (5) and the general provisions of the WaffG.

Germany's weapons laws is among the most restrictive, it's difficult to envision they'd forget something as crucial as... a tank!

 

[malicious_bloke]

Germany's weapons laws is among the most restrictive, it's difficult to envision they'd forget something as crucial as... a tank!

well, if it's a tank that doesn't have a gun it's not much of a weapon really.

Basically it's a glorified tractor

 

[Inferno]

Germany's weapons laws is among the most restrictive, it's difficult to envision they'd forget something as crucial as... a tank!

well, if it's a tank that doesn't have a gun it's not much of a weapon really.

Basically it's a glorified tractor

The law (Appendix 1) is quite specific:

IV. Machines of war (Kampffahrzeuge)
24. Tanks (Kampfpanzer)
25. Other armoured vehicles including vehicles for combat support (sonstige gepanzerte Kampfpanzer einschließlich der gepanzerten kampfunterstützenden Fahrzeuge)
26. Special vehicles for the purpose of carrying ABC weapons (Spezialfahrzeuge aller Art, die ausschließlich für den Einsatz der Waffen der Nummern 1 bis 6 entwickelt sind)
27. Self-propelled vehicles made for carrying the weapons mentioned under 24. and 25. (Fahrgestelle für die Waffen der Nummern 24 und 25)
28. Turrets for tanks (Türme für Kampfpanzer)