What makes us human?

[Ictinike]

Clearly, applying something that works on animals with practically no brain to humans would seem rather odd.

And saying that we're looking at ants to solve our computational problems is clearly misleading in a discussion like this, if ants were so on par, why aren't they building fucking computers? Because we're clearly better than them at this. And when humans have developed tech enough for interstellar travel and we're starting to inhabit the other worlds, will you still claim that we're not the peak of evolution?

The fact of the matter is that we're the only lifeform on earth who have ever built something useful. We're the only lifeform on the earth that has begun to uncover how nature works. Regardless of how perfect cooperation any other lifeform have, the fact of the matter is that we as a race have domesticated pretty much the entire planet. Within a couple of centauries we will be able to synthesize our own atmosphere and create our own nutrition without the help of other life.

Being arrogant is not good, but the fact of the matter is that with the current civilization we have, the only thing that could bring us down is ourselves. (and the spaceduck.)

Your standards for success are miles and miles different than mine. Well, actually, it's more like being an apple, and saying apples pwn grapes.

 

[borrofburi]

To add more flame to the discussion:
An animal that can speak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_the_parrot there's actually several of these, including a bonobo and a chimp I think, but I can't remember their names.

Animals that pass the self awareness test include gorillas, dolphins, humans, and most recently elephants: http://ecoworldly.com/2009/08/04/elephants-pass-self-awareness-test/

 

[Witalian]

, but we are also the only animals who can destroy ourselves.

No we are not. Have you ever heard of biological overshoot? Any animal that's too succesfull for it's habitat can drain the resources of the area after initial population explosin, and then go extinct. We are however the only species that realizes the ways in wich we can destroy ourselfs, and we can do something abouth it.

Seeing as how the average human weights about 4.3 million times that of an ant, I think it's pretty safe to say that there are more of them, even if we factor in the 12,000 species.

You are dead wrong here. Biomass is not dead weight. We are comprized of millions of cels any of wich need sustainance. If ants were as big as us they should have been just as ineficient as us. Our superiority is not in our phisical capabilities, but in the fact that since some of our ancestros attached a ston to a stick for a first time, we surpassed our phisical capabilities. Ants may be the most energy efficient animals on earth ,but they can not dug the suez canal in the same time frame that we did, not to mention the time frame in wich we will be able tio do that in the future.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Not sure if this question has been raised but, what (in a philosophical not taxonomical sense) makes us human?

Hopefully no Descartes answers, but you never know

jet packs.

 

[Witalian]

what (in a philosophical not taxonomical sense) makes us human?

jet packs.

Yor are wrong.
Here is the proof:

 

[ladiesman391]

In a philisophical sense, Control, choice and manipulation. We have control over the plants, other animals (including other humans), insects, every living thing, we are at the top of the food chain and we choose what happens next whereas all other creatures are subject to our choices. We have the ability to manipulate both our physical and social environments on an unparralleled level compared to any other living thing, of those we're aware of, we can harness and perpetuate life on this planet or destroy it completely (if we so chose to). No other creature has that level of control, choice or manipulation.

Unless you call the Sun or the Earth a living thing?

 

[Ictinike]

In a philisophical sense, Control, choice and manipulation. We have control over the plants, other animals (including other humans), insects, every living thing, we are at the top of the food chain and we choose what happens next whereas all other creatures are subject to our choices. We have the ability to manipulate both our physical and social environments on an unparralleled level compared to any other living thing, of those we're aware of, we can harness and perpetuate life on this planet or destroy it completely (if we so chose to). No other creature has that level of control, choice or manipulation.

Unless you call the Sun or the Earth a living thing?

So by the same logic, the big bully in the playground that could whip your ass into the ground, steal your lunch, bang your girlfriend and make you cry is "more human"?

 

[ladiesman391]

So by the same logic, the big bully in the playground that could whip your ass into the ground, steal your lunch, bang your girlfriend and make you cry is "more human"?

Ahhhh No. No-one can be "more" human you're either human or you're not, the bully displays human qualities so is a human, not a non-human or more-human, the bully has made a choice to manipulate and control on a level no other creature is capable of thus making him/her a human, you've just displayed the human bully in a negative manner. That's the same as asking would a King who shares his wealth with the people of his Kingdom in return for them building schools and hospitals in a third world country and who propagates happiness be "more human"?

EDIT: Had to add this photo (Wild Koala bear and fire-fighter after massive bushfire), what makes us human?

 

[Ictinike]

EDIT: Had to add this photo (Wild Koala bear and fire-fighter after massive bushfire), what makes us human?

Well negative connotation notwithstanding, my point is the same. Because we can build things and wreck things, we're human? I'm not buying that.

I also don't see that image meaning a great deal, 'cept it's a stupid monkey wasting his time. If that was me, I'd snap the neck of that little furry and save it the misery it went thru. It would have also freed up a great deal of human resources and cash that went into trying to save that thing. Time and money that could have been spent putting that fire out and saving the next 4 koalas, or better yet funding ways to prevent/minimize such things in the future.

That guy right there is just trying to make himself feel better.

 

[ladiesman391]

[Well negative connotation notwithstanding, my point is the same. Because we can build things and wreck things, we're human? I'm not buying that.

I also don't see that image meaning a great deal, 'cept it's a stupid monkey wasting his time. If that was me, I'd snap the neck of that little furry and save it the misery it went thru. It would have also freed up a great deal of human resources and cash that went into trying to save that thing. Time and money that could have been spent putting that fire out and saving the next 4 koalas, or better yet funding ways to prevent/minimize such things in the future.

That guy right there is just trying to make himself feel better.

I have to refrain from abusing the hell out of you on here because I don't want to get kicked off, SO I'LL JUST SHOUT TO RELEASE MY FRUSTRATIONS, READ THIS PLEASE SIR: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25038852-661,00.html

 

[ladiesman391]

Because we can build things and wreck things, we're human?

You don't seem to go very deep with your thought process ictinike, you think your smarter than you actually are and people like you annoy the hell out of me. You also seem hell bent on refuting other peoples statements for arguments sake and I despise people like you, you're no better than a Muslim fundamentalist or an ignorant YEC by my standards.

 

[Ictinike]

You don't seem to go very deep with your thought process ictinike, you think your smarter than you actually are and people like you annoy the hell out of me. You also seem hell bent on refuting other peoples statements for arguments sake and I despise people like you, you're no better than a Muslim fundamentalist or an ignorant YEC by my standards.

Sorry you feel that way, but honestly... verbally abusing someone on the internet? Come on.

 

[ladiesman391]

verbally abusing someone on the internet? Come on.

I'd verbally abuse to your face if you were in front of me but you're not, so i'll settle for the internet. Also from the attitude you display towards the human race on here I'd assume you don't have too many friends either and the ones that you do have probably can't stand you.

 

[Anonymous]

What makes any living organism anything? What makes a rabbit a rabbit, a lion a lion, a parasitic worm a parasitic worm? I would say that we as a collective consciousness have categorised things that really ought not to be categorised - biology does not behave like physics, and things are not definite, but are continously (of course) evolving.
However, if you mena to ask "what seperates us from the other animals?", I would say that it began with the development of upright walking, stone tools and tribal behaviour. After that, it's a slippery slope to where we are today, with 'sophisticated' morals, arts, religion and culture.

 

[IrBubble]

Your standards for success are miles and miles different than mine. Well, actually, it's more like being an apple, and saying apples pwn grapes.

So, what are your standards of success then? Could you be so kind as to try to provide us with a useful platform from which we could work instead of just shooting down every other platform that we try to provide?

 

[ladiesman391]

I also don't see that image meaning a great deal, 'cept it's a stupid monkey wasting his time. If that was me, I'd snap the neck of that little furry and save it the misery it went thru. It would have also freed up a great deal of human resources and cash that went into trying to save that thing. Time and money that could have been spent putting that fire out and saving the next 4 koalas, or better yet funding ways to prevent/minimize such things in the future.

There is so much wrong with statement I don't know where to begin, but...

Firstly: "It would have also freed up a great deal of human resources and cash that went into trying to save that thing." Are you serious? Read this extract from the article "Mr Tree said he was in the middle of backburning at Mirboo North when he saw the stricken koala. "I could see she had sore feet and was in trouble, so I pulled over the fire truck. She just plonked herself down, as if to say 'I'm beat'," he said."" "Mr Tree and his brigade then received an emergency call-out to save a house, but minutes later Sam (the Koala) was picked up by wildlife carers." Gee, so much time and resources (a few minutes and a few water bottles) "wasted" hey, you should also take into consideration he was only a volunteer firefighter!

Secondly: In Victoria, where the fires occurred, Koala numbers have been almost driven to extinction so it's probably worth stopping for two minutes to help a species out!

Thirdly: Preventing bushfires in summer in Australia? Good luck with preventing that one mate. The firefighter was trying to minimize the damage of the fire by "Backburning" which he took a two minute break from to help save the Koala.

Fourthly: "If that was me, I'd snap the neck of that little furry and save it the misery it went thru." Psycho much?!?! This is what a decent human being said about the Koala "Carer Jenny Shaw said she suffered burns on her paws and was in a lot of pain, but was on the road to recovery.". I hope you don't work with young children, the elderly, sick people or animals ictinike, if you do I dare to you show this statement to your employer!

Lastly: "I also don't see that image meaning a great deal" I could write an entire thesis on that image, I guess that's just the difference between an intellect and an ignoramus.

So, what are your standards of success then? Could you be so kind as to try to provide us with a useful platform from which we could work instead of just shooting down every other platform that we try to provide?

Excellent point Irbubble.

You know ictinike it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if you disappeared from the LoR, your ability to reason is severely lacking.

 

[IrBubble]

Not to be like that, but please, do keep the insulting to a minimum on the boards, it's better not to get banned over somebody you don't like.

Besides, we of all people should know not to discriminate against other people for not subscribing to our preferred worldview.

 

[ladiesman391]

Not to be like that, but please, do keep the insulting to a minimum on the boards, it's better not to get banned over somebody you don't like.

Besides, we of all people should know not to discriminate against other people for not subscribing to our preferred worldview.

Noted.

 

[Ictinike]

There is so much wrong with statement I don't know where to begin, but...

Firstly: "It would have also freed up a great deal of human resources and cash that went into trying to save that thing." Are you serious? Read this extract from the article "Mr Tree said he was in the middle of backburning at Mirboo North when he saw the stricken koala. "I could see she had sore feet and was in trouble, so I pulled over the fire truck. She just plonked herself down, as if to say 'I'm beat'," he said."" "Mr Tree and his brigade then received an emergency call-out to save a house, but minutes later Sam (the Koala) was picked up by wildlife carers." Gee, so much time and resources (a few minutes and a few water bottles) "wasted" hey, you should also take into consideration he was only a volunteer firefighter!

Secondly: In Victoria, where the fires occurred, Koala numbers have been almost driven to extinction so it's probably worth stopping for two minutes to help a species out!

Thirdly: Preventing bushfires in summer in Australia? Good luck with preventing that one mate. The firefighter was trying to minimize the damage of the fire by "Backburning" which he took a two minute break from to help save the Koala.

Fourthly: "If that was me, I'd snap the neck of that little furry and save it the misery it went thru." Psycho much?!?! This is what a decent human being said about the Koala "Carer Jenny Shaw said she suffered burns on her paws and was in a lot of pain, but was on the road to recovery.". I hope you don't work with young children, the elderly, sick people or animals ictinike, if you do I dare to you show this statement to your employer!

Lastly: "I also don't see that image meaning a great deal" I could write an entire thesis on that image, I guess that's just the difference between an intellect and an ignoramus.

You know ictinike it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if you disappeared from the LoR, your ability to reason is severely lacking.

Well let me start with this last line. Sorry, here for the long haul. You won't be if you keep this emo shit up, I promise you that (unless the mods are total dumbasses, and I expect they're not). Get hold of yourself, use your brain, can the emotion.

That's as emo as I'll get, so now I'll try to address points you actually made well after your childish fits.

First point: You're right, I have no idea exactly how much time was wasted "playing around" with that furry. Doesn't matter. Whack the thing and move on. I've seen all the coverage and medical treatment that thing got and it's a huge waste of time. Died anyway didn't it? You can't tell me it would not have been more productive to slit it's throat and keep going, than to leave it for all the bleeding hearts to waste their time over. You simply can't. I'm not saying you don't feel for it. I do too! Damn shame. But it'd have killed it so fast it'd make your head spin. If you don't understand why, then I'm sorry.

Second point: Almost? Well wasting your time on that one furry ain't gunna help. EXACTLY why I'd have put it down and moved on. Then, if I REALLY CARED, I'd spend the time needed to work to set aside the environment that future generations of koala need to make a living. Not just one furry, but many.

Third point: No, not just trying to prevent a fire. (But a few road signs telling people not to toss their smokes out the window might not be all bad either). I was a volunteer firefighter for many years. I know what it takes to prevent fires, address them in a timely fashion, and minimize the damages they cause. Two minutes seriously ain't gunna mean a thing. But that's not the time and effort that was spent here. You know it as well as I do.

Fourth: It only sounds harsh to stupid people. Sorry. Death is not a fail in nature, but I'm sure you'll never "get it". You buy meat from a bin at the grocery store don't you? Ever fetch any of your own buttercup?

"Lastly: "I also don't see that image meaning a great deal" I could write an entire thesis on that image, I guess that's just the difference between an intellect and an ignoramus."

I guess it does. You can't see past your weak self to the greater good. I can. You just want to make yourself feel better about what you're doing, where I want to actually affect change that prevents these tragedies and helps the long term survival of the species (koala). Not one furry that it'd make me feel better about myself to help, but long term productive change. Nature cares not for the individual, and neither do I. I know. Makes me look cold, but I'm not. I just think past my nose, where some don't.

So, what are your standards of success then? Could you be so kind as to try to provide us with a useful platform from which we could work instead of just shooting down every other platform that we try to provide?

Standard? I have no standard. I don't see "human" as a goal, I see it as a label. As ignorant and self centered as I've seen many monkeys (humans) act, I have a lot more respect for many other species that actually (maybe) understand nature and play by the rules. Even if they don't understand it, at least they don't do the shit we're doing. It's madness isn't it? I mean seriously, you can't shit all over your environment, overpopulate to extreme, and commit the atrocities we do every year all in the name of learning a couple mostly useless facts about the nature of fundamental particle physics.

Really, what's the goal? Are we trying to win? Win what?!? Are we happier with a iPhone G3 than we where with a flint spear? Can you bury 1/3 of the worlds rain forests and actually wake up being happy with your life? ETC I sure the fuck don't.

 

[ladiesman391]

That's as emo as I'll get, so now I'll try to address points you actually made well after your childish fits.

Sorry Dad, won't happen again. In regards to the whole bushfire thing, you've now made your point and I've made mine, although the only other point I want to make is that the Koala was a female, would help with reproduction, and I personally feel there's more to natural disasters than just "will it make it? Oh well, kill it move on." I think there has to be a level of sensitivity and sympathy but we can agree to disagree on that point.

I don't see "human" as a goal, I see it as a label.

So in regards to the title of the post what makes us human, what do you think makes us separate from other species in a philosophical sense?

Really, what's the goal? Are we trying to win? Win what?!? Are we happier with a iPhone G3 than we where with a flint spear? Can you bury 1/3 of the worlds rain forests and actually wake up being happy with your life? ETC I sure the fuck don't.

Didn't you just say to me before to "can the emotion"? Doesn't matter. The goal, "the win" is to ensure the survival of the human, and other, species and if you think far enough ahead you have to realise this solar system will eventually die, or we'll be hit by a massive asteroid which will destroy our planet, so what IrBubble is alluding to, I think, is that we need to make baby steps towards understanding our environment, time, space, the universe etc in order to give us an opportunity to get off this planet when the time requires it and I don't know of any other species that are aware of or capable to do anything about this issue. "Can you bury 1/3 of the worlds rain forests and actually wake up being happy with your life? ETC I sure the fuck don't." sure we've made mistakes as humans, but we're capable of learning from our mistakes through knowledge, transfer of information, education, technology etc (maybe another point to add to the "what makes us human" topic) and we're capable of correcting them, toughen up buttercup. Also as you said to me before "You can't see past your weak self to the greater good.", I think I can.