What good does hatred do?

[Inferno]

I'm not particularly friendly towards religion. In fact, I'd like to see it die a fast death. Whenever I get the opportunity to de-convert someone, I take it. I'm an Anti-Theist. (Just like Christopher Hitches, just nowhere near as good with words.)

That being said, I'm never rude. I don't swear at religious people, I don't hate them personally (only their actions) and I don't tell them that they're idiots for being religious. (Only for being creationists. Nah, not really, even there I'm too polite.)

OK that's very nice Mr Infy, but where the hell are you going with this? Well I may have said it but I'm also active on one or two other forums and there's this Australian guy (Happens to be Australian, nothing to do with him being Australian. Clarification in case people call me racist... ) who posted the following:

Careful: Contains harsh language. Read at your own risk!

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{TEXT}

I'd understand it if he'd just do that to vent, but he also said (In a different thread) that this is the way he confronts religious people. My questions: What good does that do? How do you talk to religious/creationist people, if the topic comes up?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

If that's the way he talks to people in person, he must not need much time to brush his tooth in the morning. Nobody in real life walks up to other people and starts spewing a stream of ridiculous insults. I'm as aggressively anti-theist as anyone, and more than most, but I rarely have circumstances where I get to "confront theists." I've chased religious folks down the driveway while threatening to call the cops, but that's about as far as I'll go in person.

Not because I'm afraid to talk shit in public... been in enough fights to put that idea to rest. :twisted: I just don't hang out with people who are religious enough to where an argument really breaks out. I also don't hear the word "God" and start attacking the person who said it, any more than I hear someone talking about a TV show I don't like and butt in to tell them how bad their taste is. I don't treat my friends that way, and I don't jump into the conversations of strangers.

 

[lrkun]

Nothing. Because it is an emotion which deprives man of logic, as such, one can't think straight when he is angry.

 

[Memeticemetic]

Pathetic. I mean, I understand the occasional desire to rant. But to carry on like that in the presence of 'godgobbers' merely gives them another excuse for judging all of our ilk as god-haters. I make no excuses or apologies for my lack of faith when the topic arises IRL, the topic rarely does arise however so I have few opportunities to show how civil and rational I can be when discussing it. I did have some god-botherers at my door a month or two ago, of the Jehova's Witness variety, and had a very engaging conversation about what they believe and what I believe, and don't believe. Perhaps I planted some seeds for them to potentially realize some flaws in their theology, perhaps not, but however small the chance may be, it is vastly greater than haranguing them with insults or chasing them away with threats of caling the po-po. (I recall reading somewhere else that you had good reason to do so, ImpJoe, no judgment implied)

 

[Aught3]

That being said, I'm never rude. I don't swear at religious people, I don't hate them personally (only their actions) and I don't tell them that they're idiots for being religious. (Only for being creationists. Nah, not really, even there I'm too polite.)

This kind of reminds me about 'hate the sin the sin, love the sinner', a sentiment which I despise. Don't try and come at me with smiles and kind words while all the time hating what I am and what I stand for. I dislike the cloying feel of this honey-soaked hypocrisy - makes me want to take a shower.

I hate that religion staltifies science, I hate the terrors of hell are taught to children, I hate that any two-bit huckster who can don a dog-collar is automatically granted moral expertise, while those who just can't have faith are considered inferior, and I hate that covering up a paedophile ring has not damaged the standing of the Catholic church. I hate religion - what it is, what is does, what it stands for, and even the people who thinkingly or unthinkingly promote it's spread through-out the world.

What good does it do to hate? It motivates the hell-out-of-us to get up and try and change the world for the better!

 

[lrkun]

What good does it do to hate? It motivates the hell-out-of-us to get up and try and change the world for the better!

This is a dangerous statement. Maybe the proper term by which you mean is anger and not hatred. Anger means a strong emotion: a feeling that is oriented toward some real or supposed grievance. Hatred, on the other hand, means a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action. Therefore, as when these creationist spread lies and blurr the truth or stall science, it is proper to be angry at them.

 

[Laurens]

I think it can do some good to have a bit of righteous anger - the kind of which Hitch displays on occasion. Of course this has to be released rationally, and in the right direction.

I don't think outright and unjustified insults do your position any good, however.

 

[Aught3]

What good does it do to hate? It motivates the hell-out-of-us to get up and try and change the world for the better!

This is a dangerous statement. Maybe the proper term by which you mean is anger and not hatred. Anger means a strong emotion: a feeling that is oriented toward some real or supposed grievance. Hatred, on the other hand, means a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action. Therefore, as when these creationist spread lies and blurr the truth or stall science, it is proper to be angry at them.

No I mean a feeling of profound dislike that leads to action. What part of my post was unclear?

 

[Inferno]

This kind of reminds me about 'hate the sin the sin, love the sinner', a sentiment which I despise. Don't try and come at me with smiles and kind words while all the time hating what I am and what I stand for. I dislike the cloying feel of this honey-soaked hypocrisy - makes me want to take a shower.

I hate that religion staltifies science, I hate the terrors of hell are taught to children, I hate that any two-bit huckster who can don a dog-collar is automatically granted moral expertise, while those who just can't have faith are considered inferior, and I hate that covering up a paedophile ring has not damaged the standing of the Catholic church. I hate religion - what it is, what is does, what it stands for,

I can relate to that...

and even the people who thinkingly or unthinkingly promote it's spread through-out the world.

...and that's where we stop agreeing. By the same rationale, you COULD (though obviously you don't) say that you hate all kinds of people.

No, I never hate the person. Only ever their actions.

 

[lrkun]

No I mean a feeling of profound dislike that leads to action. What part of my post was unclear?

Hatred requires no justification, as such, it will lead to action without basis. A good example is racism. But anger on the other hand is caused by some ground or reason, as when a creationist blames the calamities which are happening around the world on man's disbelief in the biblical god, in this instance, the more they spread their lies really makes me angry for their stupidity if not ignorance.

Anyway, according to you, you feel hatred for them because of some reason, which is rightly explained by anger and not hatred. I just hope you won't do actions which will lead you into trouble, atleast, if you plan to make an action, you can't do it while hating the other party because hatred will cloud your judgment.

The best analogy I can think of to describe hatred is a cartoon comic strip about a bull, red in the eyes, running towards the bullfighter.

 

[Aught3]

...and that's where we stop agreeing. By the same rationale, you COULD (though obviously you don't) say that you hate all kinds of people.

No, I never hate the person. Only ever their actions.

Well I do hate all kinds of people, those people who take actions that promote a lot of suffering in the world. Anti-vaxxers have just come to mind, oh they make me so mad! :evil:

Hatred requires no justification, as such, it will lead to action without basis. A good example is racism. But anger on the other hand is caused by some ground or reason

When did we re-write the dictionary? I didn't get the memo.

 

[lrkun]

When did we re-write the dictionary? I didn't get the memo.

I didn't either and I don't plan to re-write the dictionary.

 

[MRaverz]

Hate leads to suffering.

 

[barboft]

If that's the way he talks to people in person, he must not need much time to brush his tooth in the morning. Nobody in real life walks up to other people and starts spewing a stream of ridiculous insults. I'm as aggressively anti-theist as anyone, and more than most, but I rarely have circumstances where I get to "confront theists." I've chased religious folks down the driveway while threatening to call the cops, but that's about as far as I'll go in person.

Not because I'm afraid to talk shit in public... been in enough fights to put that idea to rest. :twisted: I just don't hang out with people who are religious enough to where an argument really breaks out. I also don't hear the word "God" and start attacking the person who said it, any more than I hear someone talking about a TV show I don't like and butt in to tell them how bad their taste is. I don't treat my friends that way, and I don't jump into the conversations of strangers.

Why would you do that? If people are having a conversation, that's for them to sort out.

 

[Exmortis]

I HATE the way all the godgobbers who are carrying on about this old dead Australian nun mackillop, can get so much publicity regarding this nauseating rubbish about becoming a saint.Just because an old pedophile networker named ratzinger, the current head godgobber of the catholic cult, has decided to hand out scores of these sainthoods to gain mega brownie points before he carks it.
But I get a triffik larf out of knowing that in real life this dopey godgobbering catholic cultist, mary mackillop, who supposedly can grant these mysterious lifesaving miracles through other godgobbers wailing out incessant prayers to her,couldn't even fix up her own health.
mackilllop died in her mid sixties afterr becoming a grossly obese monstrosity with a bloated piggy face.
she couldn't even stop herself from suffering chronic period pain.
What a triffik joke,I can't stop larfing. I've fuck near cracked a rib over all this mackillop gods muck.
Another thing that is really abhorrent and sickening is how sicko godgobber Ron Delizio, the ranting lunatic of a father to double accident victim Sophie Delizio is making so much mileage out of his daughters nightmarish young life by claiming Sophie was saved from death by mackillops miracles from the grave.
Delizio is a sicko bastard and is deliberately trying to deflect attention away from his filthy perverted catholic cults pedophilia plagued history.Which also includes the places mackillop set up that became a hunting ground for her godgobbering pedophile mates to gain acces to innocent kids.

Well... this is boring...

I mean, I like a good rant just as much as the next guy; but only when it is actually coherent and well justified... and, you know, has an actual point to it.
Overlook these vital qualities and your rant shifts from something constructive into nothing but petty trolling.

 

[Deleted member 619]

To paraphrase the inimitable Samuel Clemens - Hate is like an acid that does more harm to its container than to anything upon which it's poured.

'Nuff said.

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

Polite... yeah.


Anyway, the guy may actually talk that way depending on where in Australia he is from - there are regions of Sydney in which talking like that is the main mode of communication... only not as mild.

 

[Exmortis]

Well, I am from ipswich, which isn't very far from Sydney, and I turned out okay.

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

Well, I am from ipswich, which isn't very far from Sydney, and I turned out okay.

If you say so.
Ummm I know of an Ipswich just outside Brisbane, but I've never heard an ipswich, which isn't very far from Sydney

 

[Independent Vision]

Pppfffffttt. I have heard worse things been said about footy teams for no reason. And footy is sort of a second religion over here.

Look, it's sad that some people express themselves like that, but I'm sure this person would express themselves this way about atheists if said person was a religious person, and probably talks about the team opposing their favorite team in their favorite sport the same way.

I'm horrified at some of the stuff that comes out of your everyday Australians mouth on a bad day. Then I realize that I'm not in overtly polite Sweden anymore. Heh...
Standard mode of asking for the salt in some families is "Oi, ya bloody idiot, salt, now."