Was Jesus Real?

[Laurens]

I am aware of the documentary "The God Who Wasn't There" which posits the notion that Jesus wasn't a real person.

Since watching that I stumbled upon the wikipedia article about the historical Jesus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

It's not unreasonable to assume that Jesus was a real person. I think the mythical aspects surrounding him could well have been due to early Christians mixing with the pagan traditions at the time, and adopting some of their mythology.

On the other hand, I don't think Jesus was a remarkable person historically, he was probably one of many preachers at the time, along with John the Baptist, clearly he wasn't worth a mention by any contemporary historians, yet by a strange turn of events wound up being the most famous person on the planet - largely I think due to the Emperor Constantine making Christianity the religion of the Roman empire.

 

[MineMineMine]

i'm not sure about this.
In what aspect could he have been real? In the sense that a guy named jesus was crucified? And what else? I'm quite sure that any 'historical' jesus would have next to nothing in coming with any 'imaginary' jesus that exists today. From deeds, to looks, to moral values.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

This point gets brought up time and time again in actual historical circles (and on my authority, ignore WLC's assertion that there is consensus about the idea.)

If there is a consensus, it's probably that there was some sort of rogue Rabbinical figure at or around the time normally ascribed. Although he is not a Historian, I'll let Hitchens explain why (as he is concise and available in youtube form):


(at about 2:50)

Of course, we still can't say anything about him...

 

[Commander Eagle]

Was there a historical Jesus? Probably. He might even have been named Jesus, and claimed to have been the son of God.

Did the Biblical character of Jesus exist? No.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

The answer is no. Not even a pseudo inspirational character that would become distoted into the current depiction of Jesus. The complete story of Jesus is supousedly based on the visions inflicted by God to Peter while he was a sleep (acording to Peter's claim), on the road to Damascus, they are no first or third or nth hand accounts of the Jesus. Peter literaly dreamed it all up.

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

This point gets brought up time and time again in actual historical circles (and on my authority, ignore WLC's assertion that there is consensus about the idea.)

If there is a consensus, it's probably that there was some sort of rogue Rabbinical figure at or around the time normally ascribed. Although he is not a Historian, I'll let Hitchens explain why (as he is concise and available in youtube form):


(at about 2:50)

Of course, we still can't say anything about him...

This is a good point.

 

[lrkun]

A nice question comes to mind.

Assuming peter dreamt jesus, what proof do we have that peter existed?

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

A nice question comes to mind.

Assuming peter dreamt jesus, what proof do we have that peter existed?

Good question, but the answer is I don't know the physical documents of that. But he is taught to have been the first pope, he is the supousedly dictated on of the Gospels to his scripe Mark (the Gospel of Mark) and the acts of Apostles, he supousedly died by the Nero's decree. Those are leads and historical groundings that should count for something, may there is even a contemporary historian who has writen something about him at some point. But we can certainly know if we follow those leads.

Ps. Your wiki linksdoes providesome sources to that aspect.

 

[kittehprimo]

a better way to put it would be like this: jesus may or may not have existed, but the biblical figure purported to be jesus most certainly did not.

 

[CosmicJoghurt]

The answer is no. Not even a pseudo inspirational character that would become distoted into the current depiction of Jesus. The complete story of Jesus is supousedly based on the visions inflicted by God to Peter while he was a sleep (acording to Peter's claim), on the road to Damascus, they are no first or third or nth hand accounts of the Jesus. Peter literaly dreamed it all up.

I had absolutely no, zero, nill, null, nada, tiangsho, idea about that and can't find anything that I can verify that with. Could you link me up to some resources on this dream?

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

I had absolutely no, zero, nill, null, nada, tiangsho, idea about that and can't find anything that I can verify that with. Could you link me up to some resources on this dream?

Sorry my mistake it was not Peter, it was Paul, Peter was his companion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle

Altough the content does sugest that Peter was a follower of Jesus before Paul.....

Disregard what I have said before, it was based on previously acquiered knowledge, I must re-investigate this trough.

 

[VyckRo]

The answer is no. Not even a pseudo inspirational character that would become distoted into the current depiction of Jesus. The complete story of Jesus is supousedly based on the visions inflicted by God to Peter while he was a sleep (acording to Peter's claim), on the road to Damascus, they are no first or third or nth hand accounts of the Jesus. Peter literaly dreamed it all up.

it's Paul :facepalm: not Peter
wikipedia - atheists best friend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle
....no surprising that some people become atheists :facepalm:

 

[Laurens]

I thought it was George, or was it Ringo?

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

it's Paul :facepalm: not Peter
wikipedia - atheists best friend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle
....no surprising that some people become atheists :facepalm:

I have realised the mistake before you did. So you can save the crap.

 

[Laurens]

As I understand it John the Baptist's death is recorded by Josephus, and it is believed that some of his followers went on to follow Jesus.

There is discrepancy over whether Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher (like John) or someone preaching of a more inner transformation. It is thought that this discrepancy might have been because the followers of John incorporated some of his teachings into Christianity.

Its an interesting notion, I'm not sure if it proves the historicity of Jesus though.

 

[lrkun]

Let me get this straight. Those who say Jesus existed didn't really meet him in person or they themselves didn't exist?

Sweet.

The answer is no. Not even a pseudo inspirational character that would become distoted into the current depiction of Jesus. The complete story of Jesus is supousedly based on the visions inflicted by God to Peter while he was a sleep (acording to Peter's claim), on the road to Damascus, they are no first or third or nth hand accounts of the Jesus. Peter literaly dreamed it all up.

it's Paul :facepalm: not Peter
wikipedia - atheists best friend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle
....no surprising that some people become atheists :facepalm:

Let's test your logic:

Premise 1. Paul not peter
Premise 2. wikipedia: atheist best friend.
Conclusion. people become atheists.

Logic fail detected. Your premises does not support the conclusion.

Edit: spell check.

 

[australopithecus]

....no surprising that some people become atheists

You mean other than the lack of evidence for gods? As I see it Peter and Paul? Irrelevant. It's Christianity, not Peteranity or Paulanity.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Let me get this straight. Those who say Jesus existed didn't really meet him in person or they themselves didn't exist?

Sweet.

Peter did claim to be a desciple of Jesus. Altough most likely an invention, since he had a quarrel with Paul and he couldn't stay behind in the role of a messanger.

To bad we don't have a scholar here, such a person could have found more isues with it then my simple curiosity.

 

[VyckRo]

I am aware of the documentary "The God Who Wasn't There" which posits the notion that Jesus wasn't a real person. .

I realize that the existence of Jesus, can create major problems for a follower of the atheist faith. in reality there are many cases of journalists, historians who claim to have become Christians, after trying to demonstrate the "nonexistence hypothesis"
In general, all major historians have concluded, that there was a "rabbi" with this name who brought a "revolutionary message" for its time


When atheists attack a science field, only to justify their faith they becoming ridiculous.



PS.
If your atheism, just stand in the "nonexistence hypothesis" quit atheism today!

 

[Laurens]

I am aware of the documentary "The God Who Wasn't There" which posits the notion that Jesus wasn't a real person. .

I realize that the existence of Jesus, can create major problems for a follower of the atheist faith. in reality there are many cases of journalists, historians who claim to have become Christians, after trying to demonstrate the "nonexistence hypothesis"
In general, all major historians have concluded, that there was a "rabbi" with this name who brought a "revolutionary message" for its time


When atheists attack a science field, only to justify their faith they becoming ridiculous.



PS.
If your atheism, just stand in the "nonexistence hypothesis" quit atheism today!

Even if there was evidence for Jesus, there being a real guy called Jesus doesn't prove he was the son of God