Thunderf00t in trouble...!

[Dogma's Demise]

I didn't say what he did was right, I said it's not on the same level as DF. It was NON-PERSONAL information, this is a very huge distinction from what DF did. The information cannot be used to find out who those persons who want to remain anonymous are. And I find it completely dishonest that some of the FtBloggers are now overreacting and paranoid they're going to be doc-dropped.

 

[Laurens]

I didn't say what he did was right, I said it's not on the same level as DF. It was NON-PERSONAL information, this is a very huge distinction from what DF did. The information cannot be used to find out who those persons who want to remain anonymous are. And I find it completely dishonest that some of the FtBloggers are now overreacting and paranoid they're going to be doc-dropped.

Well it might make you paranoid if you wished to remain anonymous online, and then someone had access to emails in which you may have disclosed your real name because you understood it was a private conversation. From there its a small step to find out other details about a person. Thunderf00t may not intend to doc drop, but you can't blame them for getting paranoid, I mean he's been enough of a dickwad already, so they're probably not putting it past him.

Also how do you know the info was non-personal? I've not seen any of these emails, have you? They may have contained personal information, they may not have, I don't think you can assert that they didn't without having seen any of them.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Uh, burden of proof is on them to prove that any personal information was leaked by Thunderf00t. I've seen some of the stuff leaked by Thunderf00t but none of it contained any information to identify the person.

 

[Laurens]

Uh, burden of proof is on them to prove that any personal information was leaked by Thunderf00t. I've seen some of the stuff leaked by Thunderf00t but none of it contained any information to identify the person.

The burden of proof is on them to provide support for your claim that:

It was NON-PERSONAL information

You didn't state, "we have no evidence that these emails contained personal information," you stated that they emphatically don't. How is it up to them to demonstrate the opposite?

Whether or not TF leaked personal info is another issue, but you seem to be arguing that his gaining access to these emails isn't so bad because they don't contain personal information. I'd like to know on what basis you make this assertion.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Look, once again is it FtB who has the burden of proof. It is they who need to prove that:

1. Thunderf00t has doc-dropped them. (i.e. he posted real names [public figure names excluded], home addresses, phones etc.)
or
2. There is a serious risk that Thunderf00t will doc-drop them.

Since there is no evidence presented yet (none that I have seen, if you do feel free to re-direct me to it), I can dismiss both claims.

 

[Laurens]

Look, once again is it FtB who has the burden of proof. It is they who need to prove that:

1. Thunderf00t has doc-dropped them. (i.e. he posted real names [public figure names excluded], home addresses, phones etc.)
or
2. There is a serious risk that Thunderf00t will doc-drop them.

Since there is no evidence presented yet (none that I have seen, if you do feel free to re-direct me to it), I can dismiss both claims.

Well you're claiming that they are being paranoid for no good reason as he hasn't released any personal information. I'm saying that they have a reason to be paranoid if the emails he had access to did contain personal information. Because regardless of whether he did release any info, or whether or not he intends to there is still a risk.

Whether or not this risk amounts to anything remains to be seen, however I think they are justified in being anxious, and they are certainly justified in being pissed off.

You seemed to be saying that the emails he accessed contained no personal information, and therefore their paranoia is unjustified. All I was asking is how you know these emails contained no personal information, because no one has seen all of them except FtB members and presumably Thuderf00t.

How do you propose they show that these emails did contain personal information without disclosing the emails that contain personal information? If they did and Thunderf00t had access to them then they're justified in stating that there is a risk because all we have against that is Thuderf00t's word that he won't doc drop them - which in their eyes probably doesn't amount to much.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

League of Reason is a perfectly lovely website that really really really shouldn't get dragged into this. Really. We're disciplining our village's idiot, and he hopefully won't bother you any more.

I'm waiting for this holy discipline, Joe.

I'm currently shunning you for being a putz.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I know I said I wouldn't say any more, but I want to address this because I feel it was at least partially aimed at myself.

Yes and Thuderf00t has allegedly been using information obtained from private communications in order to slander and continue his attacks on FtB. He might not be doing the exact same thing as Dawah did, but it is in the exact same category of cuntishness.

There's no "allegedly" or need for various and sundry idiots to demand more evidence. TF has admitted to pretty much everything he's been accused of doing, which gives people perfect reason to believe he'll do more with the information he's taken. Asking for evidence in the face of admission isn't skepticism, it is stupidity.

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

I didn't say what he did was right, I said it's not on the same level as DF. It was NON-PERSONAL information, this is a very huge distinction from what DF did. The information cannot be used to find out who those persons who want to remain anonymous are. And I find it completely dishonest that some of the FtBloggers are now overreacting and paranoid they're going to be doc-dropped.

Actually, these mails did contain personal information. Have you taken the time to read all the blogs about the issue. Natalie Reed has already claimed that these emails contain personal information including her real name which could put her in real danger. FUCK YOU with your NON-PERSONAL INFORMATION. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Others have also claimed that these mails contain info they rather not have released to the public. Congratulations on being ignorant of the issue though we should all be used to it by now.

 

[Laurens]

I know I said I wouldn't say any more, but I want to address this because I feel it was at least partially aimed at myself.

Yes and Thuderf00t has allegedly been using information obtained from private communications in order to slander and continue his attacks on FtB. He might not be doing the exact same thing as Dawah did, but it is in the exact same category of cuntishness.

There's no "allegedly" or need for various and sundry idiots to demand more evidence. TF has admitted to pretty much everything he's been accused of doing, which gives people perfect reason to believe he'll do more with the information he's taken. Asking for evidence in the face of admission isn't skepticism, it is stupidity.

Indeed after doing a bit of further reading into the matter this morning I feel that "allegedly" is now an unnecessary caveat to use.

I can't understand how anyone is still defending Thuderf00t after this... All they can come up with is; "he hasn't doc dropped anyone", "there's no evidence that he has personal information", and "FtB should have had better security, it's their fault"...

None of these excuse the fact that Thuderf00t gained access to private emails with the express intention of furthering his childish butthurt vendetta against FtB. The issue of their security flaws, and whether or not personal information was obtained are secondary to the fact that he did something vindictive and potentially damaging to people that had nothing to do with the original fiasco.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

"They should have had better security" is not an excuse.

That's like excusing someone from robbing your home because you left your window unlocked -
it's in the action, not the means by which it was accomplished.

 

[DepricatedZero]

I'm entirely with Laurens on this one.

I've long thought TF to be a bigoted asshat. I didn't recognize it with the creatard videos, though looking back he attacks the people rather than the ideas. As a foil, AronRa attacks ideas with a vengeance but doesn't attack the people themselves. He points out their idiocy without hesitation, and even if I think his method is a bit harsh, it's certainly not bigoted.

I stopped keeping track of TF when he developed his raging hate-on for Islam. Before that all started I thought he was a pretty cool guy, seemed likeable enough. This is just more of the same shit that's been going on since he abandoned reason in pursuit of personal glory. He's an ideologue these days, though I'm not really sure what his ideals are at this point - certainly not reason and free thought.

It's disappointing, but not unexpected. He carries his tantrums to the nth degree.

 

[televator]

Oh, ThunderFoot...
Mr. "An argument stands on its own merit." Hahaha! Right, unless of course, if your arguments are on the losing side...then resort to hacking for no real reason to prove how right you are.

Now lets see how the more prominent defenders and "friends" of his react to this. I also wonder how he'll justify this in his own mind. Maybe he'll compare himself to Anonymous or some other grand thing like that.

 

[The Felonius Pope]

Why the hell am I still subscribed to Thunderf00t? His idiocy at FtB was one thing, and if I were in charge I probably wouldn't have kicked him off, but this is something else.... I know he can be an idiot, but Tfoot is actually starting to scare me. :?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

And clearly, TF has some rather serious mental/emotional issues that would be best addressed by a doctor of some sort. Here's a simple thought experiment:

Let's say that I go to one of TF's YouTube videos, and leave a comment that he doesn't like. He calls me an asshole, deletes my comment and blocks me from commenting further. What do you think it a proper response for ME to make towards Thunderf00t? Should I shrug my shoulders and move on, since no material was harm to me, and if anyone asks me I say "oh, that asshole? Fuck him!"?

Or should I try to find a backdoor way to make comments?

Should I obsessively watch his videos, read his blog, and try to find out things about his personal life?

Should I make several videos complaining about TF stripping me of my freedom?

Should I start a website devoted pretty much entirely to bashing TF and his friends?

Should I tell my friends to piss off when they tell me that I'm being overly dramatic and taking things too far?

Do any of those moves make any fucking sense?

Look, I've got a temper too, and I can get really pissed off. But there's a difference between being angry at someone, and becoming irrationally focused on the person who angered you. There was no meaningful difference in TF's life between the moment he accepted the invite to FtB and the moment they asked him to blog elsewhere. There would have even less of a difference if, knowing his fundamental disagreements with the bloggers in that network, he had simply declined the invitation. Who cares if he blogs one place or a different place? Why does he care so much, and why are his fans so emotionally invested?

 

[Dogma's Demise]

I didn't say what he did was right, I said it's not on the same level as DF. It was NON-PERSONAL information, this is a very huge distinction from what DF did. The information cannot be used to find out who those persons who want to remain anonymous are. And I find it completely dishonest that some of the FtBloggers are now overreacting and paranoid they're going to be doc-dropped.

Actually, these mails did contain personal information. Have you taken the time to read all the blogs about the issue. Natalie Reed has already claimed that these emails contain personal information including her real name which could put her in real danger. FUCK YOU with your NON-PERSONAL INFORMATION. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Others have also claimed that these mails contain info they rather not have released to the public. Congratulations on being ignorant of the issue though we should all be used to it by now.

*pushes the report button* :lol:

Now on the substance of your post, this is from the link you posted:

"This led to something really creepy and scary when Thunderf00t began threatening to publish the confidential contents of FTB's private listserv, to "prove" that I'd been "lying" about his behaviour."

"Confidential contents" really that's a pretty redundant phrase since everything on that mailing list is supposed to be confidential. But anyway, that's not the same as personal information. As long as Thunderf00t doesn't reveal real names, home addresses, phone numbers etc. (which is pretty damn easy to do really, you just copy/paste the e-mail and censor out the information that makes the person identifiable) it's not doc-dropping. It's obviously not ethical either and TF should apologize for that and never pull that again, but to compare it with DF's antics is just unfair.

"EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: Something I noticed in the comments that I'm a bit worried about, and might make things worse, is people thinking Thunderf00t has directly threatened to out me or my name, or has suggested this is something he intends to do, for its own sake. That hasn't happened."

Okay, still following? Good.

"A few weeks ago, he threatened to publish private e-mails that would have resulted in my name being compromised, and seemed to persist in these threats after I suggested the possible consequences."

As I said, the e-mail could easily be copy/pasted with the personal details censored out. And besides, why don't you prove this accusation? Give me Thunderf00t's own statement.

I stopped keeping track of TF when he developed his raging hate-on for Islam.

He's also bashed Christianity. What exactly are you complaining about? What, is Islam the protected religion now? Gimme a break.

 

[Visaki]

I still find all the pro-F00t and anti-TF00t people more intetesting than the actial argument between F00t and FtB. Personally I'll just wait for The F00t's new WDPLAC videos and laught at the people who vow never to watch anything by F00t because of all this drama. And the people who think that F00t is the best thing since sliced bread (because they are actually that impotent of thought), I'll laugh at them too.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I stopped keeping track of TF when he developed his raging hate-on for Islam.

He's also bashed Christianity. What exactly are you complaining about? What, is Islam the protected religion now? Gimme a break.

Man, I could have sworn that there was, like, 2 paragraphs before tha-

...
I've long thought TF to be a bigoted asshat. I didn't recognize it with the creatard videos, though looking back he attacks the people rather than the ideas. ...

Oh, there it is.

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

"A few weeks ago, he threatened to publish private e-mails that would have resulted in my name being compromised, and seemed to persist in these threats after I suggested the possible consequences."

As I said, the e-mail could easily be copy/pasted with the personal details censored out. And besides, why don't you prove this accusation? Give me Thunderf00t's own statement.

So the fact that Tf00t can edit the emails to not contain personal information makes it ok for him to reveal those emails? Are you actually aware what you are saying? Listen, these mails are confidential and it was expected that they remain confidential. Whether it was illegal or not is irrelevant because what he did is mean and idiotic. These mails not only contain names of FtB posters who post on an alias, but opinions and stories of people which they do not want to be made public. What Thunderf00t did is inexcusable and defending him just shows you are as bad as him. What he did was wrong and people should just admit that he is just being an asshat and troll now.

 

[Laurens]

"This led to something really creepy and scary when Thunderf00t began threatening to publish the confidential contents of FTB's private listserv, to "prove" that I'd been "lying" about his behaviour."

"Confidential contents" really that's a pretty redundant phrase since everything on that mailing list is supposed to be confidential. But anyway, that's not the same as personal information. As long as Thunderf00t doesn't reveal real names, home addresses, phone numbers etc. (which is pretty damn easy to do really, you just copy/paste the e-mail and censor out the information that makes the person identifiable) it's not doc-dropping. It's obviously not ethical either and TF should apologize for that and never pull that again, but to compare it with DF's antics is just unfair.

How is it unfair to compare it to DawahFilms? Dawah just got his information about Thundercunt from a video that had been on youtube already, so far as I recall. He didn't actually spend a great deal of time, oh I don't know, exploiting the security of a private email system in order to obtain information to further his vendetta. Thunderf00t was outraged by DawahFilms because he invaded his privacy and potentially put him and his family at risk. Now he has done exactly the same thing, he has gone out of his way to obtain private information, and he has his hands on some information that could potentially put people at risk. If you cannot see the hypocrisy in this, then I really think you need to get your head checked.

"EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: Something I noticed in the comments that I'm a bit worried about, and might make things worse, is people thinking Thunderf00t has directly threatened to out me or my name, or has suggested this is something he intends to do, for its own sake. That hasn't happened."

Okay, still following? Good.

Just because he hasn't outed any personal information doesn't mean he won't. Again all we have is his word, and his word counts for fuck all considering how unethically he has been acting. And how the fuck are you defending him for this anyway, I mean its analogous to defending a rapist by saying "well he didn't stab you, and he promised he wouldn't stab you",,, So fucking what if he hasn't doc dropped, he's gone out of his way to access and distribute private emails, the fact that he hasn't disclosed any private information doesn't matter one iota - this is still extremely unethical, and there is absolutely no reason to defend him because he hasn't released any personal information. The fact that he has it, and could release it is surely enough to condemn him, isn't it?

"A few weeks ago, he threatened to publish private e-mails that would have resulted in my name being compromised, and seemed to persist in these threats after I suggested the possible consequences."

As I said, the e-mail could easily be copy/pasted with the personal details censored out. And besides, why don't you prove this accusation? Give me Thunderf00t's own statement.

Thunderf00t has admitted that he had access to these private communications. And here's some more evidence of what he has been up to.

I think its fairly safe to say that he has been able to access these communications, and from what a lot of the other bloggers have been saying these messages do contain personal info. So Thuderf00t has access to people's personal information. Whether or not he has released it, or has threatened to release it, or will release it in future is irrelevant. The fact that he has it is a threat in and of itself. All we have against him releasing this information, or misusing it is his word, and that counts for fuck all. What can you offer, other than TF's assertion that he doesn't doc drop, to suggest that his holding this information is not a threat to certain FtB users?