Thunderf00t in trouble...!

[ImprobableJoe]

You wouldn't blame a stranger for asking for a link and giving people the stink eye for bandwagon behavior.

Yes, I would. For the stinkeye part, for the part that makes you think you're entitled to treat other people like shit BEFORE you have any evidence.

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

For everyone interested in how he did it tecnically speaking:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/08/10/what-thunderf00t-did-and-how/

According to Jason Thibeault's blog, it does not seem as if thundef00t hacked anything. I am not excusing his actions, which are deplorable, but it is amazing that FreeThoughtBlogs would allow a gross oversight like this to happen.

 

[MetalMeltdown]

For everyone interested in how he did it tecnically speaking:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/08/10/what-thunderf00t-did-and-how/

According to Jason Thibeault's blog, it does not seem as if thundef00t hacked anything. I am not excusing his actions, which are deplorable, but it is amazing that FreeThoughtBlogs would allow a gross oversight like this to happen.

Unauthorized access of a system, even if it's without using exploits or brute force methods, it's still technically considered cracking, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure if you can build a legal case or anything since the fault lied also in the FTB admins, but that does not mean it's not hacking. I mean, using social engineering to get your way into a server does count as cracking even if you don't have to touch a single line of code to do it, does it not ? This is not much different, I think.

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

Unauthorized access of a system, even if it's without using exploits or brute force methods, it's still technically considered cracking, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure if you can build a legal case or anything since the fault lied also in the FTB admins, but that does not mean it's not hacking. I mean, using social engineering to get your way into a server does count as cracking even if you don't have to touch a single line of code to do it, does it not ? This is not much different, I think.

I really do not want to split hairs on this thread, but I do not know the legal definition for hacking. In my mind, what thunderf00t did was not hacking. However, my opinion of hacking could be grossly in error.

The main point to this thread is exposing the deplorable actions thunderf00t went to after he was kicked off FreeThoughtBlogs. His actions are shameful and I do hope legal action is taken against him.

 

[nemesiss]

Unauthorized access of a system, even if it's without using exploits or brute force methods, it's still technically considered cracking, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure if you can build a legal case or anything since the fault lied also in the FTB admins, but that does not mean it's not hacking. I mean, using social engineering to get your way into a server does count as cracking even if you don't have to touch a single line of code to do it, does it not ? This is not much different, I think.

I really do not want to split hairs on this thread, but I do not know the legal definition for hacking. In my mind, what thunderf00t did was not hacking. However, my opinion of hacking could be grossly in error.

The main point to this thread is exposing the deplorable actions thunderf00t went to after he was kicked off FreeThoughtBlogs. His actions are shameful and I do hope legal action is taken against him.

personaaly, i fault lies with Ftb and using a specific mailing program in such careless way. their oversight allowed tf to exploit it in such a manner.

as for the legal definition of hacking and cracking, it's has to do with the intend.
it has little to do with the techniques and/or programs used.

Hacking regards to the break in, getting access to files, data, etc.
Cracking is doing the same as hacking, but where using the access to files, data, etc for one owns gain.
Under "own gain" people define it for situations as bribary, money laundring, etc.

social engineering can follow under both hacking and cracking, but again... it's intend what makes the different.
in most cases social engineering is cracking.
social engineering refers to obtaining information in a specific way used on a specific person or group. person or group doesn't nessiscarrily mean a human, this can also refer to a company, website and/or device.

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

I don't think that FtB can be blamed for using Mailman. Do not forget that when PZ invited Thunderf00t, it was under good faith and I do not think that they expected Thunderf00t to fuck up the way he did. They expected that Thunderf00t to stay longer and remain on the mailing list. I doubt that the admins thought that kicking Thunderf00t would be needed.

 

[Dustnite]

For everyone interested in how he did it tecnically speaking:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/08/10/what-thunderf00t-did-and-how/

Figured it was a bad SA.

Also, putting private information on a listserv is always a bad idea. Is it really that hard to use encryption nowadays? I might just be spoiled because I work in enterprise environments all the time now, but I know theres some good opensource stuff out there. GnuPG comes to mind...

If the SA is getting paid he needs to be fired or reprimanded. If it's just an intern, then they need a real SA...

EDIT** Thought I would add this is state law in the US for computer hacking and unauthorized access. http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/telecom/computer-hacking-and-unauthorized-access-laws.aspx

From my state's law the following might be pursued I think:

8. Knowingly accessing any computer, computer system or network or any computer software, program or data that is contained in a computer, computer system or network.

Seems kind of catch all...

Minnesota law is pretty clear:

609.891 UNAUTHORIZED COMPUTER ACCESS.

Subdivision 1.Crime. A person is guilty of unauthorized computer access if the person intentionally and without authorization attempts to or does penetrate a computer security system.

According to Canuck, he did not try to use the front-end to reauthorize his account and went through the backend utilizing a hole provided by a bad SA and bad use of software. I could see that being pushed as an exploit.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Question. What is "unauthorized" in a legal sense? Thunderf00t simply used an exploit (a programming bug) in the software, he didn't go out of his way to "hack" into FtB's mailing list so I don't think it's fair for people to refer to his behavior as "hacking" when he probably isn't even trained in IT. I mean really, if your website is insecure enough that someone can access parts of it you don't want by using only the functionality you provide them with, then that's your own fault (in my view anyway). It would be akin to complaining that members of your own forum can access sections you intended to be private because you messed up the ranks and privileges.

That said, he shouldn't have done it. (Or if he done it, he should have immediately reported the loophole.) But some of the FtBloggers are just paranoid now, relax, he's not going to doc drop you just because he found an exploit.

And this silly drama is getting out of hand and making both sides lack credibility.

Just kiss and make up already.

 

[Dustnite]

Question. What is "unauthorized" in a legal sense? Thunderf00t simply used an exploit (a programming bug) in the software, he didn't go out of his way to "hack" into FtB's mailing list so I don't think it's fair for people to refer to his behavior as "hacking" when he probably isn't even trained in IT. I mean really, if your website is insecure enough that someone can access parts of it you don't want by using only the functionality you provide them with, then that's your own fault (in my view anyway). It would be akin to complaining that members of your own forum can access sections you intended to be private because you messed up the ranks and privileges.

That said, he shouldn't have done it. (Or if he done it, he should have immediately reported the loophole.) But some of the FtBloggers are just paranoid now, relax, he's not going to doc drop you just because he found an exploit.

And this silly drama is getting out of hand and making both sides lack credibility.

Just kiss and make up already.

Exploiting a network through a security hole, no matter how easy it was to do so, is still considered unauthorized access or "cracking" if it was made clear that he was not invited to access that system. Canucks post, if correct, shows a timeline of Tf00t's account being deauthed (although poorly) with Tf00t clearly accessing the back-end to retain access without authorization.

That's classic cracking in a nutshell and can be pursued legally. I work for large corporate environments and I've seen lawyers become involved for less. Assuming Michigan or Minnesota state law, I could see how a case could be generated in criminal court.

EDIT** I also wanted to add that your analogy above about unintentionally releasing parts of a forum to the general public may be a different context as this is information that was released to the public and may be considered part of the public domain. In Tf00t's situation, he clearly and intentionally infiltrated a system that he was not supposed to be in. IMO, very different situations.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

I see. Thanks for clarifying that.

Well, I hope they can resolve this amicably still. I mean it's really pathetic, they once considered themselves friends and now they're considering legal action.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

For a moment there I taught it was anything serious. Everybody is blowing this out of proportion, it is no issue to be cared for, in fact I have spended my last fuck and now I have none left to give.

 

[CEbbesen]

Meanwhile this happened

 

[Dustnite]

For a moment there I taught it was anything serious. Everybody is blowing this out of proportion, it is no issue to be cared for, in fact I have spended my last fuck and now I have none left to give.

I don't know. I wouldn't want someone like Tf00t knowing my personal info that he could intentionally or unintentionally pass along to a third party that could potentially do me harm. That's pretty much where my interest ends however.

The whole Skepchick/FTB/Tf00t fallout I am done giving two effs about...

 

[Laurens]

Thuderf00t is a massive fucking idiot. I haven't been paying close attention to what has been going on, and I'm not a follower of FtB, nor do I claim to speak in their defence. However, his behaviour is fucking childish, and I don't get what it is with people saying "he's changed", no he hasn't he's always been a cunt. He thrives off being the centre of attention, he thrives off taking internet drama off the internet and into the real world (he did this early on with VenomFangX), and he seems to love making a whirlwind of drama everywhere he goes.

He's not content to say "FtB kicked me off, I think they're wrong to do so, but what the heck", he's turned it into some huge fucking vendetta, just like he did with VFX and DawahFilms. Now he's got hold of people's personal information/communications, which is extremely fucking hypocritical considering he almost blew his cock off with rage when DawahFilms got hold of his personal info.

The other thing that makes him a massive cunting hypocrite is, as I've said before, he goes on with this 'a house divided' rhetoric, yet he is now proving to be possibly one of the biggest divisive characters in the online atheism community. He's a monumental prick.

And now I've said that, I'm going to shut up cause I don't think he deserves any more of my attention.

 

[bluejatheist]

I'm with Hytegia as far as the need evidence goes for this specific case though I don't care much about this FTB thing outside of the AXP blog.(You'd be surprised how insignificant to the world and society it all is when you don't log in much ), and didn't look far beyond this thread and that particular blog post so I won't push it much- the words of all sides are equally worthless to me. If there is evidence, cool.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

He is not doing the same thing he accused DawahFilms of doing, that comparison is completely unfair.

DawahFilms had his personal information and spread it (by his own admission) to the students and co-workers in a deliberate attempt to get him fired or at the very least reprimanded. This is not something TF has ever done. He didn't even go out of his way to obtain that information, it was already there when he first joined FtB. What he shared was NON-personal i.e. he never doc-dropped anyone.

 

[scalyblue]

People still use listserv?

Isn't there a more advanced way to communicate, like carrier pigeon or transubstantiation?

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

People still use listserv?

Isn't there a more advanced way to communicate, like carrier pigeon or transubstantiation?

Transubstantiation is still in Beta.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

League of Reason is a perfectly lovely website that really really really shouldn't get dragged into this. Really. We're disciplining our village's idiot, and he hopefully won't bother you any more.

I'm waiting for this holy discipline, Joe.

 

[Laurens]

He is not doing the same thing he accused DawahFilms of doing, that comparison is completely unfair.

DawahFilms had his personal information and spread it (by his own admission) to the students and co-workers in a deliberate attempt to get him fired or at the very least reprimanded. This is not something TF has ever done. He didn't even go out of his way to obtain that information, it was already there when he first joined FtB. What he shared was NON-personal i.e. he never doc-dropped anyone.

I know I said I wouldn't say any more, but I want to address this because I feel it was at least partially aimed at myself.

Yes and Thuderf00t has allegedly been using information obtained from private communications in order to slander and continue his attacks on FtB. He might not be doing the exact same thing as Dawah did, but it is in the exact same category of cuntishness.

And it is irrelevant that he already had access to the emails. If I move out of somewhere, but manage to keep the door keys so I can sneak in and steal stuff from the new owners, it doesn't make what I did any less wrong. All these people who claim that its some how justified because he already had access, or that its FtB's fault are clutching at straws. How exactly does his having already had access to the emails make what he has alleged to have done less wrong?