They did what??

[Andiferous]

I love historical trivia, so here's my attempt at trying to open up an entertaining historical discussion. People in history were crazy and highly amusing.

Bleeding, the universal medieval cure, and its uses:

• 
  - restores the balance of humours in the blood for improved mental and physical health. Also effective against Hysteria. And other imaginary affectations.
  

  In a particularly graphic tale, The Lady Who Killed her Husband's Greyhound, a young wife who tests the patience of her older husband on several occasions, is "cured" of her disobedience by her husband who subjects her to repeated bleeding treatments until she is nearly dead.
  
  ORB

  - drains disease, infection, and all those nasty toxins. A medieval detox - if it didn't kill you.
  - a useful and oft used beauty treatment for that aristocratic porcelain complexion. Effective either by leeches or by slashing veins. Best done from a foot or somewhere relatively unnoticed.

 

[Andiferous]

Body shaping. It made you pail, frail, and prone to fainting.

"You should wear them all night," Ma said. Mary did, but Laura could not bear at night the torment of the steels that would not let her draw a deep breath. Always before she could get to sleep, she had to take off her corsets.

"What your figure will be, goodness knows," Ma warned her. "When I was married, your Pa could span my waist with his two hands."

 

[Pulsar]

Ah, now this is a fun topic. One of my favourite WTF experiments is from Jan Baptist van Helmont (1579-1644). He's the founder of pneumatic chemistry - he actually came up with the word 'gas' - but he also strongly believed in spontaneous generation. Here's his recipe to create mice:

If you press a piece of underwear soiled with sweat together with some wheat in an open mouth jar, after about 21 days the odor changes and the ferment coming out of the underwear and penetrating through the husks of the wheat, changes the wheat into mice. But what is more remarkable is that mice of both sexes emerge (from the wheat) and these mice successfully reproduce with mice born naturally from parents. But what is even more remarkable is that the mice which came out were not small mice, but fully grown.

For some reason, I haven't been able to reproduce his experiment... must be my underwear :lol:

 

[Doc.]

well this should not go here but it's too funny/horrible to ignore.

A little weird friend of mine, when he was about 12-14 years old, caught a mouse in his countryhouse, then he caught a frog, then he chopped their legs and hands off, and then he tied frog's hands (whatever they are called) to a mouse.

little Frankenstein.

 

[Andiferous]

Ah, now this is a fun topic. One of my favourite WTF experiments is from Jan Baptist van Helmont (1579-1644). He's the founder of pneumatic chemistry - he actually came up with the word 'gas' - but he also strongly believed in spontaneous generation. Here's his recipe to create mice:

If you press a piece of underwear soiled with sweat together with some wheat in an open mouth jar, after about 21 days the odor changes and the ferment coming out of the underwear and penetrating through the husks of the wheat, changes the wheat into mice. But what is more remarkable is that mice of both sexes emerge (from the wheat) and these mice successfully reproduce with mice born naturally from parents. But what is even more remarkable is that the mice which came out were not small mice, but fully grown.

For some reason, I haven't been able to reproduce his experiment... must be my underwear :lol:

:lol:

I love that kind of thing. Swift satirised the same kind of absurd experiments done by scientists of his day in Gulliver's Travels (pt. III, Laputa):

He had been eight years upon a project for extracting sunbeams out of cucumbers, which were to be put in phials hermetically sealed, and let out to warm the air in raw, inclement summers.

And only this year, the Scottish worm count is on: "Scientists are to begin a survey to determine how many earthworms there are in Scotland."

well this should not go here but it's too funny/horrible to ignore.

A little weird friend of mine, when he was about 12-14 years old, caught a mouse in his countryhouse, then he caught a frog, then he chopped their legs and hands off, and then he tied frog's hands (whatever they are called) to a mouse.

little Frankenstein.

Oh... gosh...

 

[Pulsar]

And only this year, the Scottish worm count is on: "Scientists are to begin a survey to determine how many earthworms there are in Scotland."

LOL, good luck to them. You should also check the thread about the Ig Nobel prizes.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

For some reason, I haven't been able to reproduce his experiment... must be my underwear :lol:

... or the rat poison in the corner. One or the other.

The bleeding thing is interesting. Between the placebo effect and the euphoria experienced from a combination of adrenaline and endorphins released because of cuts and blood loss, bloodletting must have seemed like a minor miracle. Since in those days you were going to die of just about everything, why not try anything?

 

[Andiferous]

That thread is hilarious. :lol:

Well, their doctors and dentists may have been like something out of a horror film, but:

 

[Josan]

For some reason that last post reminded me of Requiem for a Dream...

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

I have to get a picture from some of the exposition of old chem equipment at my uni, some of those pieces are amazing, unfortunatly you can only get good science.

 

[Lallapalalable]

well this should not go here but it's too funny/horrible to ignore.

A little weird friend of mine, when he was about 12-14 years old, caught a mouse in his countryhouse, then he caught a frog, then he chopped their legs and hands off, and then he tied frog's hands (whatever they are called) to a mouse.

little Frankenstein.

hehehe reminded me of this:
http://www.ninjapirate.com/ferret.html

 

[Andiferous]

This blog of medical history facts made me both cringe, and then giggle, and then cringe again.

For instance:

In 1838...

*Graham also felt you could recognize a person who masturbated by certain tell-tale signs- they were usually, shy, suspicious, unconcerned with hygiene, jaundiced and had acne. He stated they would grow up with a body full of disease and a mind full of ruins.

* John Kellogg (of cereal fame) founded a "Wellness Clinic." He was obsessed with bowels. His clinic was an enema machine to run 15 gallons of water through in seconds. Then the patient recieved one pint of yogurt-1/2 to eat and 1/2 by enema to replace the "happy" flora of the bowel.

*Kellogg also professed that circumcision for boys and pure carbolic acid treatments for girls was the only way to cure them of sexual thoughts. For those who were not cleared of impure thoughts and found themselves in the family way - the advised methods of ridding pregnancy were to jump from a table; roll on the floor; take abortificients or use blunt instruments.

Puts a whole new spin on Froot Loops and Special K.

And...

In 1840...

* United States abolished physician licensing stating anyone was free to practice healing-the business was so profitable that the government placed a war tax to raise funds for civil war (By 1859 -$3.5 million business & by 1904 $74.5 million in business)

*Sears catalogue sold a morphine laced mixture intended to be slipped into the husband's coffee in order to keep him home at night. Those women were the first addicts.

 

[simonecuttlefish]

John French - The Art of Distillation - Book IV
BOOK IV
OF ANIMALS

WATERS, SPIRITS, AND OILS, SIMPLE AND COMPOUND OUT OF ANIMALS

THE ESSENCE OF MAN'S BRAINS
Take the brains of a young man that has died a violent death, together with the membranes, arteries, veins, nerves, all the pith of the back, and bruise these in a stone mortar until they become a kind of pap. Then put as much of the spirit of wine as will cover it three or four fingers breadth. Then put it into a large glass so that three parts of four be empty, being hermetically closed. Then digest it half a year in horse dung. Then take it out and distill it in balneum and cohobate the water until the greatest part of the brains be distilled off.
A scruple or two of this essence taken in some specifical water once in a day is a most infallible medicine against the falling sickness.

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/jfren_4.html

 

[BoundToTell]

Remember the good ol' days? When there wasn't a care in the world (except World War I)? That's right, I miss the days of 1918 when vibrators were put in Sears ads. Had to cure that female hysteria somehow, and doctors couldn't be bothered to give hours long "pelvic" massages. Clearly, these doctors were not true men.

 

[Giliell]

Body shaping. It made you pail, frail, and prone to fainting.

"You should wear them all night," Ma said. Mary did, but Laura could not bear at night the torment of the steels that would not let her draw a deep breath. Always before she could get to sleep, she had to take off her corsets.

"What your figure will be, goodness knows," Ma warned her. "When I was married, your Pa could span my waist with his two hands."

May I ask you where that quote is from?
Because it seems very unlikely to be from a contemporary (contemporary of corsets) book.
There are two reasons for that:
A: Our not-so-distant ancestors believed that the human body, especially the femal, wasn't able to support itself. All babies would be stiffly wrapped. Boys would be let out of it, but girl-childs would wear a stiff bodice all time. The bent ribs you can see in your own picture is only managed if you do tight-lacing during most of life, when the bones actually grow. To achieve that on the already grown body is almost impossible.
Check out this website.
You'll see in the two pictures at the top where that woman is claiming that they are so much alike tells the difference. The contemporary ilustration shows a woman with a full figure while the girl is clearly anorectic.
And it's a nice example of a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the back muscles will "disappear" if a corset is worn all time, so those women couldn't support themselves anymore.

B: The mentioning of steel. Steel as used in corsets today wasn't avaible then, they were stiffened whith fishbone or reed.

If you have any more questions about corsets, just ask and I may clear up some of the most common misconceptions

 

[Andiferous]

May I ask you where that quote is from?
Because it seems very unlikely to be from a contemporary (contemporary of corsets) book.
There are two reasons for that:
A: Our not-so-distant ancestors believed that the human body, especially the femal, wasn't able to support itself. All babies would be stiffly wrapped. Boys would be let out of it, but girl-childs would wear a stiff bodice all time. The bent ribs you can see in your own picture is only managed if you do tight-lacing during most of life, when the bones actually grow. To achieve that on the already grown body is almost impossible.
Check out this website.
You'll see in the two pictures at the top where that woman is claiming that they are so much alike tells the difference. The contemporary ilustration shows a woman with a full figure while the girl is clearly anorectic.
And it's a nice example of a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the back muscles will "disappear" if a corset is worn all time, so those women couldn't support themselves anymore.

B: The mentioning of steel. Steel as used in corsets today wasn't avaible then, they were stiffened whith fishbone or reed.

If you have any more questions about corsets, just ask and I may clear up some of the most common misconceptions

I appreciate that, and I find all of this fascinating and love to discuss it further, although in saying so I do not want to give the impression that I am under misconceptions. I think they used "whale bone" specifically? That said, I was trying to give a snapshot of historical cultural trends, and honestly, the practice or corset-training seems as absurd to me as foot binding.

I came across this particular quote a while ago in the "Little House on the Prairie" series by Laura Ingalls Wilder (American "childrens'" Book series). Laura at the time was undergoing puberty and here's a couple more lines for contextualisation:

Laura had a sudden thought. "It's Mary's corsets! It must be. The corset strings must have stretched."

It was so. When Mary held her breath again and Laura pulled tight the corset strings, the bodice buttoned, and it fitted beautifully.

"I'm glad I don't have to wear corsets yet," said Carrie.

"Be glad while you can be," said Laura. "You'll have to wear them pretty soon." Her corsets were a sad affliction to her, from the time she put them on in the morning until she took them off at night. But when girls pinned up their hair and wore skirts down to their shoe-tops, they must wear corsets.

"You should wear them all night," Ma said. Mary did, but Laura could not bear at night the torment of the steels that would not let her draw a deep breath. Always before she could get to sleep, she had to take off her corsets.

"What your figure will be, goodness knows," Ma warned her. "When I was married, your Pa could span my waist with his two hands."

I wasn't aware that there was question that a woman's bones could not support her. The idea of that is exponentially more troubling to me than the "solution." :twisted:

That said, I've always suspect that Betty Page might be the best popular "contemporary" example of this, as there are a variety of pre-photoshop images available of her that make me squirm.

 

[Giliell]

Ok, my fault, so it is a more or less contemporary quote.
I'm still puzzled by the steel.
The most usual material would be "whale bone", which is not the bones of a whale but the baleenes. Reed would also be common and buckram for lighter corsets, especially children's corsets.
Contemporary notes report that most problems due to corsets occured in the lower clases where the women wore corsets they made themselves with inferior material and inferior knowledge.
A corset has to be made to fit. As it compresses and reduces the circumference, it must do so at right place. If a well-fitting corset is correctly worn and not laced too tightly in the beginning there is nothing uncomfortable about them to wear.
I think that may have been Laura's problem.

The shape of the corset or stays changed according to the fashion from Renaissance to Edwardianism but the notion that the female body couldn't support itself ran through all those ages (and was of course proved wrong every day by hardworking women who couldn't wear tightly laced corsets and carried heavy loads).
But most of our modern day ideas about them are simply wrong. Although the body was heavily altered by the Victorian and Edwardian hour-glass shape corsets, the popular fainting scenes à  la Gone with the Wind are not entirely fiction, but not due to the corset. As you can see in the picture you posted yourself, the lung, although pushed upwards, remains sheltered in the upper ribcage. The other organs are also pushed upwards, a situation comparable with the last weeks of a pregnancy. Not nice, but nothing that makes you faint. It especially won't make you faint if you're Miss Elizabeth Swan and wear stays which don't do much permanent modelling or any compression of the lungs. But for women of a certain time and class, fainting was practically manners, so you did it. Give the men something to rescue

Yes, a very small waistline has to be trained, not only from youth in order to bend the ribs, but also in order to push those organs out of the way. Women I know who do train (but not excessively) wear their corset several hours a day. But also without training a corset can reduce a waist considerably.


Well, now, all I said of course doesn't justify the alteration of little girls' bodies for no good reason.
And this entire post is your fault, you should NOT get me started about historical underwear, but if you're interested I can tell you a lot of amusing stuff, like why a woman's pubic hair's called a beaver :lol:

 

[Andiferous]

Well, now, all I said of course doesn't justify the alteration of little girls' bodies for no good reason.
And this entire post is your fault, you should NOT get me started about historical underwear, but if you're interested I can tell you a lot of amusing stuff, like why a woman's pubic hair's called a beaver :lol:

Wow. I find it interesting too. That said... :shock:

Now you've got to explain the beaver thing!

 

[Giliell]

Well, it is actually a funny one.
If conservatives nowadays get their panties wet at the thought of a striptease club and lap dancing, the scandal of the 19th century was the Can-Can. The girls kicked up their legs so you could not only see their ankles :shock: , but also their legs and undies :shock: :shock: .
Now, the drawers of that timer were very different from our modern underwear. The most remarkable difference was that the seams were not closed between the legs. Keeping in mind that they were worn UNDER the corset, that makes sense because you couldn't just pull them down to follow nature's call.
Now, when the girls kicked up their legs, the gap opened up and the men could get a glimpse at their pubic hair, which was of course part of the attraction.
But the girls closed those seams. After all, they wouldn't wear those drawers the whole day, so no problem there. And they faked the hair with a bit of beaver fur so the men still thought they'd seen more than they should :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Aught3]

Well, it is actually a funny one.
If conservatives nowadays get their panties wet at the thought of a striptease club and lap dancing, the scandal of the 19th century was the Can-Can. The girls kicked up their legs so you could not only see their ankles :shock: , but also their legs and undies :shock: :shock: .
Now, the drawers of that timer were very different from our modern underwear. The most remarkable difference was that the seams were not closed between the legs. Keeping in mind that they were worn UNDER the corset, that makes sense because you couldn't just pull them down to follow nature's call.
Now, when the girls kicked up their legs, the gap opened up and the men could get a glimpse at their pubic hair, which was of course part of the attraction.
But the girls closed those seams. After all, they wouldn't wear those drawers the whole day, so no problem there. And they faked the hair with a bit of beaver fur so the men still thought they'd seen more than they should :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think if you were a merkin this would be very offensive. No more jokes about our friends in the US please! :lol: