Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
he_who_is_nobody said:DeVos was on the advisery board for the Student Statesmanship Institute, which is pro-creationism and anti-gay. This is beside the whole "Kingdom of God" thing.
You honestly do not see how placing a YEC in charge of education can be a problem? What is next, you are going to argue that placing a climate change denier as head of the EPA is also not a problem?
Correct, my only point would be that a they could not be a good lawyer and a creationist. Creationism is, from top to bottom, logical fallacies. If someone was a lawyer and a creationist, I would find myself a new lawyer, since they obviously have a problem with logic or are extremely biased.
Tree said:Well that was the major point of disagreement over what to do with the refugees. And you weren't taken out of context.
Tree said:I talked a little about this above.
I think there's something to be said for being the "bigger man", not just to take the moral highground and then gloat about it later, but maybe us taking them in could actually make them change their ways, and eventually they would welcome us if needed?
I think there are times when you should be the "bigger man". This isn't one of them. If wanted 100% eye for an eye, well let's just say it can get a lot worse than being denied entry into a country as a refugee, no need to be graphic about it. People should be treated fairly but at the same time they should not be allowed to take advantage of you. I don't believe in turning the other cheek, there has to be a better balance between full vengeance and pathological altruism. Both extremes will lead to your downfall.
Also giving people free stuff doesn't make them good, otherwise dictators who literally have everything would be the nicest people on Earth.
Tree said:That's nice but I didn't support Trump for his Christian values, I supported him because he was strong leadership material and the only one who could have defeated the left. Actually if you forced me to place my money on it, I wouldn't be surprised if he's not religious at all.
[...]
Also regressive leftist propaganda on college campuses is far bigger threat than YEC in high school. Unless you're a biologist, and students passionate about it will generally figure out creationism is bullshit on their own anyway, it really doesn't matter if you believe nonsense about evolution. A lawyer can still be a good lawyer even if he doesn't have a clue at all about biology. But if you buy into far left "fuck America fuck white males I'm a victim wah wah wah" politics you're going to be a very negative influence in society no matter what your career path is.
Personally, between someone with no degree and gender studies, I'd choose the one with no degree. You're asking for a frivolous lawsuit or at the very least lots and lots of drama if you hire someone who's been taught how to be a perpetual victim.
Tree said:he_who_is_nobody said:DeVos was on the advisery board for the Student Statesmanship Institute, which is pro-creationism and anti-gay. This is beside the whole "Kingdom of God" thing.
SSI is an organization for right-wing Christian students who want to be leaders and deals with a lot of different things, to reduce it all to "pro-creationism and anti-gay" is disingenuous and even more disingenuous to assume that everyone who supports SSI is a creationist just by association but oh well that's Daily Kos for you, a hysterical rag. It's also disingenuous to assume every creationist is a YEC.
Tree said:I'd like to direct your attention to the website itself and how the staff presents itself:
https://ssionline.org/about-us/
Now I don't know if they're creationist or not, probably they are to some degree, but if creationist activism was such a core part of what they do, why haven't they listed it on the page where they present themselves?
Tree said:Then you have a bit of alarmist stuff about "dominionism" sprinkled at the end. Well so far so good, it hasn't happened and never happened even when America was way more religious.
Tree said:You honestly do not see how placing a YEC in charge of education can be a problem? What is next, you are going to argue that placing a climate change denier as head of the EPA is also not a problem?
You'd have to first establish that she's a YEC and then you'd have to compare options as well, being a YEC isn't the worst thing you can be, I argue it would be far more damaging to have an SJW in charge of education for example because that far left ideology infiltrates all aspects of education, including the hard sciences that aren't supposed to be political. How that manifests is very simple: It's enough if a science teacher who is a far leftist spends 5 minutes off-topic to promote his ideology. If students don't get a counter-point and they see him as an authority figure, they'll believe it and you get indoctrination.
Tree said:Where do you think all these over-the-top SJW millennials come from if not a broken education system that's been facilitating this crap for years? They're not a fringe anymore nor limited to one university or one specific region. This isn't natural behavior, you have to be conditioned to be this level of stupid and have such bad character:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfqAkUXKT5Y
Tree said:Correct, my only point would be that a they could not be a good lawyer and a creationist. Creationism is, from top to bottom, logical fallacies. If someone was a lawyer and a creationist, I would find myself a new lawyer, since they obviously have a problem with logic or are extremely biased.
Or they never cared about the subject in the first place, which isn't so hard to believe if you only study the law. By the way smart people have idiotic views outside of their field all the time. Would it be fair to dismiss everything Chomsky has done in linguistics because I think his "libertarian socialist" ideology is total nonsense on every level? It really is, if you think you can get rid of all governments and then workers will somehow get all the means of productions and you'll have worker controlled economies and everything will be great - you're on a level of delusion that is at least comparable to that of YEC. Sorry but the only thing anarchy produces is a pile of unpredictable chaos. Expecting humans to exist without some form of government is like expecting ants to exist without colonies.
Tree said:The only thing that matters is that they are able to present a case. My case. If you got a good track record and can win my case, you're hired. If not, I don't care how rational or skeptical you claim to be and those aren't even the main qualities a lawyer needs. Charisma is way more important.
Tree said:Even Fred Phelps was apparently an effective civil rights lawyer despite his craziness.
Tree said:Speaking of 42% of the population being creationists, that's sad, but you don't do science with the bottom 42% of the population, you do it with a very small very elite group of thousands of people. Those are the people that actually need to know what they're doing.
[url=http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/why-did-betsy-devos-attack-college-education-at-cpac-creationist-anti-education-tactics-might-provide-the-answer said:Jason Colavito[/url]"]But there is a similarity between creationism, Nazism, Maoism, and all of the other totalizing ideologies that demand a purge of science, the humanities, and thought itself. They all fear the power of knowledge, and they all fear that even a hint of awareness that there are other ways to think, to act, and to live will collapse their simplistic and militant ideologies into rubble. Faith militant requires soldiers to fight for it, and no one fights to the death better than a fanatic.
Gnug215 said:So was that the only major point of disagreement in my entire post?
I'm not demanding that you respond to all my babbling, I'm just surprised... and wondering.
Gnug215 said:And well, I kinda do feel as if I was taken out of context a bit, because the rest of paragraph that you quoted from was the important bit, in which I move away from it having to be a moral subject, into one of "economy" or good sense.
Also, throughout my post, I make it clear (I should hope?) that I'm not advocating fully open doors. And I also see that you don't seem to be advocating fully closed doors.
So are we both talking about "reasonable amounts" of fugitives?
First of all, I agree that he's probably not religious at all. All the pandering to the Religious Right that I've seen from him seems insincere at best.
Second, (and feel free to correct me if I'm asking this question "wrong") as someone who doesn't seem to be religious, which parts of the Right's ideological causes do you align with? And which one's don't you?
Also, if I may ask, are you a Republican? Would you call yourself one? Or... maybe I should just ask what your political/ideological "history" is?
I'm asking all this because - with, granted, the limited knowledge of you that I have so far - you strike me as someone who only recently became so vested in politics, and as someone who's mostly acting against something, and not for it.
If that is the case, that is no judgment on my part, since I've pretty much always voted "against" things rather than for something.
At any rate, you're railing a lot against the regressive left and the danger you think they will cause - or have caused. What exactly are these dangers, as you see them?
Incidentally, am I to assume that you distance yourself as much from the far (or "Alt" I guess) Right as you seem to expect us here to distance us from the far (Regressive) Left?
So do you think of countries like Canada or Northern/Western European countries as more or less damaged than Venezuela? As more or less damaged than the U.S.?Tree said:I definitely support the Republican party more than the Democrats. My history is that I started off as a wishy washy centrist with no clear political ideology and then became more right-wing over the years as I learned more about right-wing principles and also saw the damage that big intrusive governments do around the world. Take Venezuela for example, horrible system. They would have been better off with just a minarchy, that's how much the government failed them on every level.
Had there been a "gun culture" in Europe during the 30's and 40's the outcome would have been exactly the same, maybe even worse as trained military forces would have purged whole areas because of civilian warfare (just as was done in the East because of partizan activity). Not to mention all the antisemites, which were very, very common in the East, would have had guns too. Just imagine what would have happened if there was an armed jew rebellion in Germany in lets say 1937. You think that would have ended well for the jews?
They would have been crushed, and in the aftermath the nazis would have had a good propaganda reason to start the exterminations before the war distracted them from it, or it distracted them from war.
Tree said:Others like Breitbart or Rebel Media have been falsely labelled "alt right" when they're not and never claimed to be.
[url=http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/stephen-bannon-donald-trump-alt-right-breitbart-news said:Sarah Posner[/url]"]"We're [Breitbart] the platform for the alt-right," Bannon told me proudly when I interviewed him at the Republican National Convention (RNC) in July.
Tree said:I'd like to hear him personally say that, I'm not just going to take Sarah Posner's word for it especially when I can't find the transcript of this interview that supposedly took place in 2016 anywhere. Who does interviews without recording them in some form, whether it's written or audio/video recorded? This doesn't seem credible even on the surface of it.
If I missed it, let me know, but I don't think you're going to find it.
So.... was this "interview" off the record then? Off the record doesn't count. If this was just a private conversation it's nothing but a he said she said.
Tree said:Remember those four blacks who kidnapped a disabled white guy, tortured him while filming it and saying "fuck white people, fuck Donald Trump"? Where do you think they got those ideas from if not the regressive left?
Tree said:As I pointed out not everyone who says he's alt-right should be automatically assumed to be racist by the way. Plenty of people think it just means a rightist who's not mainstream, literally an "alternative right-winger" and nothing more. It's kind of how some people have a wrong notion of feminism and think "it's just equal rights for women". It's more than that.
Tree said:If he did use it, I'd advise against it since that has negative implications and associates you with people like Richard Spencer and other white nationalists.
Tree said:Bannon has admitted to being an economic nationalist, but has rejected the label of a white nationalist.
Thus, you can jump to one conclusion, yet not accept a reporter simply based on your bias. Got it.
Beyond the fact that I cannot wait for a non-feminist to tell us what feminism is, this is the more appropriate rationalization.
Because we can only use labels that people accept for themselves?
Tree said:It's not a rationalization, interviews usually are recorded or at least there's some transcript of them available somewhere assuming they happened.
Tree said:And if you merely talked with the person off the record then you shouldn't describe the encounter as a legit "interview".
Tree said:Thus, you can jump to one conclusion, yet not accept a reporter simply based on your bias. Got it.
The reporter in question also has a bias. Nothing wrong with that provided you disclose it and back up your claims and yet this interview in nowhere to be found in its full form which is very odd. Actually I don't think I've ever seen a reporter not post the interview in some form, whether it's text, audio or video. Given the context too, the RNC, I'd expect audio at the very least too and yet we don't even have text so this immediately strikes me as fishy.
Tree said:Not saying she's lying, it just seems fishy that this interview is nowhere to be found. Even if it was just aired once someone is always bound to record it and put it online. YouTube is full of that and yet you can't find it on YouTube, you can't find it by googling key words.
Tree said:Regarding the kidnappers, I didn't just "jump to a conclusion", I followed the pattern and then made a conclusion. Just as you can reach a pretty good conclusion that if there's someone running over people with a vehicle screaming "Allahu Akbar" it's likely someone acting on ISIS propaganda (which has been reported to mention vehicles as potential weapons, so much for gun control) or if there's someone vandalizing animal shelters and freeing the animals it's probably ALF.
Tree said:These youths are clearly very angry at white people and there's only one likely source that anger could have come from: all those years of regressive left propaganda that paint whites as an "oppressor class" and create a double standard when it comes to behavior.
Maybe they're just psychotic delinquents but I'm not buying it. "Fuck white people, fuck Donald Trump" is a very clear political statement and I've never heard it come from anywhere else other than the far left. You have to be brainwashed by ideologues to have this much hatred to the point where you're willing to kidnap a disabled guy and torture him because he's white.
Tree said:And all these so-called "anti-racists" - none of them are condemning this as anti-white bigotry. They don't even believe you can be racist against whites because they say "whites have power". Irrelevant. They've redefined the word to suit their agenda.
Tree said:Beyond the fact that I cannot wait for a non-feminist to tell us what feminism is, this is the more appropriate rationalization.
You're clearly not alt right and yet you talk about them so this isn't an argument. Only being allowed to criticize ideologies and movements you're a part of kinda defeats the whole purpose of criticism doesn't it?
Tree said:Feminism isn't just a dictionary definition, it's a whole ideology where you have to accept a host of propositions such "male privilege" being a thing, "rape culture" or the 30% wage gap caused by sexism and I don't. So I'm not a feminist.
Tree said:Because we can only use labels that people accept for themselves?
Do you have any reason to believe that Bannon is a white nationalist considering he doesn't support it or act on it?
Tree said:There were other disagreements, but I didn't feel they were really worth dragging on for too long. It's nothing personal or anything, I'm really limited with time these days.
Gnug215 said:And well, I kinda do feel as if I was taken out of context a bit, because the rest of paragraph that you quoted from was the important bit, in which I move away from it having to be a moral subject, into one of "economy" or good sense.
Also, throughout my post, I make it clear (I should hope?) that I'm not advocating fully open doors. And I also see that you don't seem to be advocating fully closed doors.
So are we both talking about "reasonable amounts" of fugitives?
Tree said:I don't know why you keep saying "fugitives", we're talking about refugees here.
Tree said:But to clarify, no, I don't want any refugees from Syria specifically, or any country that has bad relationships with the western world, because you don't know where their loyalties lie and there is no reliable way to distinguish between a moderate or an extremist. Even government officials have said there's no full proof vetting method. Literally the only way to tell would be to read minds.
Tree said:I will say this, there are other solutions that could be considered such as resettling them in a more similar country or creating safe zones in Syria. Syrian safe zones cost far less, protect more people and don't risk the lives of any American citizen, except maybe the military assigned to guard those zones. But danger is part of the job description, you sign up for it. Regular civilians didn't sign up for it.
So don't say I was in favor of doing nothing.
Tree said:First of all, I agree that he's probably not religious at all. All the pandering to the Religious Right that I've seen from him seems insincere at best.
Second, (and feel free to correct me if I'm asking this question "wrong") as someone who doesn't seem to be religious, which parts of the Right's ideological causes do you align with? And which one's don't you?
The right is wide spectrum of views, but I agree with the general principles of having a free market, individual liberty with individual responsibility, and being distrustful of too much government intervention in the lives of citizens as well as having a government that puts its citizens first, so I'm a bit of a nationalist too, not a fan of globalism.
Tree said:Where I disagree:
1. Some on the right get a bit too religious and I wish they would articulate their arguments in secular terms if they want to be taken seriously. If you want to argue that abortion is wrong because an embryo has a soul - not interested in that argument. But if you want to argue that abortion should be illegal after 3 months because the baby can feel pain, at least that is backed up by science so I support it.
Tree said:2. Not particularly a fan of free trade, I think the government should regulate trade between countries far more than it regulates trade within the same borders, particularly when you're dealing with a country like China. Honest workers in the US should not have to compete with near slave labor in the third world. Slavery has no place in a genuine free market, all transactions have to be voluntary. Since China doesn't even have free speech, that puts into question whether or not a Chinese worker even truly consents to work in these western multinationals who ship jobs overseas. After all, we can all agree that a trafficked prostitute can't consent to sex either because she's under coercion from a pimp who probably kidnapped and drugged her.
Tree said:3. While I'm far more supportive of free markets than the average mainstream rightist, I'm not a libertarian either. I think they're naive on way too many issues. They're naive on trade with China, I have no idea how you can have a "free market" with China, when China one giant apparatus of GOVERNMENT COERCION, the very thing libertarians claim they hate. Libertarians are also naive on foreign policy, naive on borders and I've even seen some argue that the age of consent is coercive and unfair government intrusion into people's lives which proves to me that they have no grasp of individual responsibility and just want a consequence free world to do whatever they like.
Tree said:4. The mainstream right and the libertarians in particular are too soft on Islam. I feel embarrassed when these people repeat the same lies the left does that "Islam is a religion of peace". When I hear that I immediately think of how absurd it would be if someone of the caliber of Reagan said "communism is an ideology of peace" during the Cold War. He would have been laughed off the stage, not given applause. These sorts of statements make America look weak and are totally uncalled for. You cannot build a coherent foreign and immigration policy on LIES.
Tree said:5. As far as welfare (for adult people) goes, I'm not in favor of any form of wealth redistribution unless you're literally half dead so that might make me a little more right-wing than some mainstream right-wingers and less right-wing than hardcore libertarians. So if someone came up with a good plan to deal strictly with starving people or people with a medical emergency (and by emergency I mean you're bleeding out and will probably die within 24 hours if you don't get help) and it only cost the taxpayer 1-2% of their income or something like that or the cost was partially shifted to private charity, I might support that.
These grand wealth redistribution schemes where you have subsidies, failing banks being bailed out, (all supported even by mainstream Republicans) and single parents being given free money just because they exist - no I don't support any of that.
Tree said:6. The attitudes on sex of the religious right are frankly ridiculous and unworkable. I mean I want to promote family values as much as they do, but I don't think abstinence programs and criminalizing prostitution does the job. Then again the regressive left is proving to be just as sexually repressed by trying to tell men they shouldn't like beautiful women or that prostitutes are always victims and can never consent.
Tree said:7. Obviously I don't like creationism, I just don't see it a deal breaker.
Tree said:Where I'm a little undecided:
1. Climate Change - I'm not denying it's a thing, I just don't see any viable policy to handle it unless you want to go back to a pre-industrial era with all the horrors of that era. There is no way you can sustain our civilization without fossil fuels. The end game of the left would make energy so insanely expensive that only the rich could afford it. Solar and wind are nowhere as efficient as fossil fuels. Nuclear is nowhere near as widespread and the more radical elements of the left oppose even that.
Tree said:2. Drugs - I lean towards a full decriminalization but I also have to admit that might not solve the crime problem at all if these criminals simply start catering to more degenerate tastes to keep the cash flowing (we're talking about snuff films, child porn, cannibalism, sadism all that shit - so far that's better under control because all the gangs make enough profit from drugs and they don't touch that other shit, they don't need to kidnap people and torture them for the entertainment of the most depraved elements on society), so I dunno, maybe this war on drugs prevents a worse more degenerate societal outcome, maybe not and we're just wasting money trying to save the lives of deadbeats and failures.
Tree said:Also, if I may ask, are you a Republican? Would you call yourself one? Or... maybe I should just ask what your political/ideological "history" is?
I definitely support the Republican party more than the Democrats. My history is that I started off as a wishy washy centrist with no clear political ideology and then became more right-wing over the years as I learned more about right-wing principles and also saw the damage that big intrusive governments do around the world. Take Venezuela for example, horrible system. They would have been better off with just a minarchy, that's how much the government failed them on every level.
Tree said:At any rate, you're railing a lot against the regressive left and the danger you think they will cause - or have caused. What exactly are these dangers, as you see them?
There are many dangers posed by the regressive left for example:
1. Identity politics that divide people into men vs. women, black vs. white and so on that try to paint white males as an "oppressor" class, that's bound to lead to violence and in fact has, many blacks have been brainwashed by the regressive left's propaganda to hate all whites, so this is like a reverse KKK movement
Remember those four blacks who kidnapped a disabled white guy, tortured him while filming it and saying "fuck white people, fuck Donald Trump"? Where do you think they got those ideas from if not the regressive left?
Tree said:2. The unproductive victim mentality that they promote among women and minorities
Tree said:3. The normalization of violence against right-wingers, remember the whole "let's punch a Nazi" even though Richard Spencer isn't technically a Nazi and it wouldn't matter because assaulting people who disagree with you is barbaric
Tree said:4. The obsession with group outcomes instead of actual individual merit, if Congress isn't 50% women they whine about it, no concern is given to the possibility that maybe women just aren't as interested in politics, besides mandating 50% women in Congress would be extremely undemocratic since it overrides the will of the people, whatever that might be
Tree said:5. The normalization of mental illness that's part of the trans movement, if a bearded guy thinks he's a woman and you don't acknowledge him as such as you're now a "transphobe", I think it's very dangerous to dictate other people's perception of reality, what's next? Multiple IDs for people with multiple personality disorder?
Tree said:6. The obsession with getting people fired for being what they consider to be "racist", "sexist" and "transphobic", as if that has anything to do with their job.
They say they're for worker's rights, but they want you fired if you think wrong and they're going to harass your employer until he fires you. What a joke.
Tree said:7. Their undue hatred for what they consider to be "fascism" (which isn't really fascism but center right policies but they don't like and mildly nationalist policies) contrasted with their undue love for Islam (which actually resembles fascism in many ways and is in any case against every progressive value these people claim to have), one time they even had Muslims screaming "Allahu Akbar" at a women's rally
Tree said:8. Their desire to lower standards of evidence for proving rape because they don't believe enough rapists are being convicted, this is a danger to the legal system and already it's possible to be fully acquitted of rape in a criminal trial but still expelled from college for rape because they've lowered the standards for proving rape in a college setting.
Tree said:9. Their language policing
Tree said:10. Their general contempt for western culture as just a product of "rich white males who owned slaves" and their one-sided view of history where the western world is always the bad guy and non-western people can do no wrong and have no responsibility of their own
Tree said:11. Their constant incitement of riots for trivial bullshit, their sympathy to criminals who resist arrest and get shot as a result and their constant excuses for bad behavior as long as it comes from women or minorities.
Tree said:12. Many of these people are openly against capitalism and some are even openly communist. I don't see how you can have a free society with no private property. Oh sure you can have some welfare, but regular leftists still rely on capitalism to create this wealth. Far leftists completely hate the system. If they could, they would take everything you own and only give you what they think you will need. The far left is a danger to the American system founded on private property and free markets. You can't have liberty if you don't keep what you earn.
Tree said:13. Pathological altruism. The fact that they're easily manipulated by globalist interests (such as multinationals wanting cheap labor from an oversupply of labor and landlords wanting higher rents from a larger population) with words like "xenophobe" and "intolerant" to act in ways that doesn't serve the interest of their country.
You don't think trade with China in its current form is good? Xenophobe. You hate the Chinese.
You don't want to be part of the EU? You want Brexit? Xenophobe.
You don't want refugee quotas? Xenophobe, racist, Islamophobe.
Tree said:14. The regressive left have shown contempt for the family and seem to think parents don't really have a right but a privilege to raise their children.
See:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35752756
This is just one example of how the far left wants to intrude in your family life. I'm not saying genuinely abusive parenting should be tolerated, but this is going way too far.
Tree said:Incidentally, am I to assume that you distance yourself as much from the far (or "Alt" I guess) Right as you seem to expect us here to distance us from the far (Regressive) Left?
I don't like the alt right either, not in its most common form run by the likes of Richard Spencer. They might make a point here and there, but they're a racist (in the true sense) movement at the core with an unworkable ideology and should be avoided. That said, I think the excesses of the regressive left has made them more popular than they deserve to be. You didn't hear about them years ago. They were nobodies, now they get interviews.
There are some people who called themselves alt right who aren't racist and I think they're being played and should distance themselves from this movement. If I recall correctly Milo once said he's alt right. He's not a mainstream conservative so in a way he is literally an "alternative right-winger" but he's no racist either and doesn't believe in all this white identity crap and should stop calling himself "alt right".
Others like Breitbart or Rebel Media have been falsely labelled "alt right" when they're not and never claimed to be.
Trump has also been falsely labeled alt right.