WarK
Active Member
Hello,
first of all, I admit that I haven't read the entire topic thoroughly. My apologies if I misrepresent anyone.
In general I think Vego makes some good points (welcome to the forums btw) and at the same time acknowledges some problems for switching to vegan/vegetarian diet.
To me the argument that by not eating meat and other animal products one tries to decrease animal suffering is a good one. I disagree with Laurens' argument that animals in wild also suffer, possibly(?) more than farm animals. It doesn't seem to be relevant to Vego's argument about decreasing animal suffering that humans are causing. To me it's a bit like saying stealing isn't that bad because your neighbour also does it. We as humans could decrease the amount of suffering by decreasing the number of animals we keep for food.
Dragan Glas made another argument that I don't find convincing. Namely that because of our evolutionary history we should stick to being omnivores. Knowledge of evolutionary history can explains our dietary habits and can inform our diets but we can choose to do things differently, with more compassion.
There are two more good arguments against keeping animals at scale we do. One has to do with the use of antibiotics in farming which is a recipe for a disaster. It creates evolutionary pressure on bacteria to become antibiotic resistant.
Second is the damage farming does to environment.
I noticed someone in the thread using the word sentient to describe animals. I don't think that's the case in most cases and it's besides the point. Animals don't have to be sentient to feel pain and suffering.
Also, what's the issue with bees? It's the first time I heard this argument. Bee keeping seems like a pretty benign form of using animals' work. I mean, we build them nice houses, only we nick their honey and swap it with sugar for winter. What's the harm?
I think that once we get a cheap way of producing synthetic meat the problem will mostly go away. As Vego noted, the meat itself isn't a problem necessarily, it's the amount of animal suffering that went into producing it.
first of all, I admit that I haven't read the entire topic thoroughly. My apologies if I misrepresent anyone.
In general I think Vego makes some good points (welcome to the forums btw) and at the same time acknowledges some problems for switching to vegan/vegetarian diet.
To me the argument that by not eating meat and other animal products one tries to decrease animal suffering is a good one. I disagree with Laurens' argument that animals in wild also suffer, possibly(?) more than farm animals. It doesn't seem to be relevant to Vego's argument about decreasing animal suffering that humans are causing. To me it's a bit like saying stealing isn't that bad because your neighbour also does it. We as humans could decrease the amount of suffering by decreasing the number of animals we keep for food.
Dragan Glas made another argument that I don't find convincing. Namely that because of our evolutionary history we should stick to being omnivores. Knowledge of evolutionary history can explains our dietary habits and can inform our diets but we can choose to do things differently, with more compassion.
There are two more good arguments against keeping animals at scale we do. One has to do with the use of antibiotics in farming which is a recipe for a disaster. It creates evolutionary pressure on bacteria to become antibiotic resistant.
Second is the damage farming does to environment.
I noticed someone in the thread using the word sentient to describe animals. I don't think that's the case in most cases and it's besides the point. Animals don't have to be sentient to feel pain and suffering.
Also, what's the issue with bees? It's the first time I heard this argument. Bee keeping seems like a pretty benign form of using animals' work. I mean, we build them nice houses, only we nick their honey and swap it with sugar for winter. What's the harm?
I think that once we get a cheap way of producing synthetic meat the problem will mostly go away. As Vego noted, the meat itself isn't a problem necessarily, it's the amount of animal suffering that went into producing it.