The Good and The Hatred

[Blog of Reason]

Discussion thread for the blog entry "The Good and The Hatred" by Dean.

Permalink: http://blog.leagueofreason.org.uk/reason/the-good-and-the-hatred/

 

[DukeTwicep]

The thing is that it's easier to dismiss arguments with unsubstantiated reasons than it is to reinforce your arguments in the moment and counter-dismissing such unsubstantiated claims. Firstly, because you don't have to have much knowledge and education to invent rubbish statements. Secondly, atheists/church-critics like us want to be as correct as possible. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just that it makes it very hard to debate in real time, and it also takes time, quite a lot from time to time, to refute the rubbish statements. So here we have one side who rapidly fires off shit loads of shit, in attempts to confuse or to tire any opposition. This side has millions, if not billions of supporters who have the ability to do this. On the other side we have people who rather think twice before saying something, often people who second-guess what they are writing (with good reason), people who like to confirm with sources that what they are writing or arguing for is valid and consistent. Plus, the second side knows that a single error can and will be used against them over and over again by the first side in order to defame and blackwash.

So while church critics may have all the evidence and truth on their side, the church and its audience has all the dirty tricks up their sleeves.

I often feel like I get a little stupider every time I respond to a theist's claims, it hurts in my brain and burns in my eyes to see their many failures in matters that should be obvious to any man and woman. It's like working in a morgue, you'd soon develop a disorder if you had no contact with the living in your spare time. In the same way, I feel I'm developing a disorder by not having any intelligent conversations, but instead filling my time with righting wrongs.

 

[bluejatheist]

Most of the Atheist Groups here in the U.S. are already fighting this battle. particularly the ACA with the Atheist Experience. It IS having a gradual effect. Things are unfavorable here, but when one compares today to 100 years ago, we're making progress.

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

It is impossible in post-war Germany to look past piles of corpses and stay cool about it. The other causes and perpetrators have been identified and brought to justice, yet the Church and the religion are not only around , No, they are chipper and are happily talking about their values and their Christian love as if nothing ever happened. Nobody ever enters an objection. It sounds like their whole religion brought just peace, love and harmony. Not only that , they behave as if this is obvious. By asking for evidence, or god forbid, entering an objection, they are outraged. In the video they even go as far and claim that Christianity was in resistance against the fascistic regimes in Italy and Germany (there is pretty strong evidence to suggest that this is not true).

This is, in my view, the reason Atheists are bullied into a defensive stance, polite, rejecting the belief but silently agreeing to their benevolent religion made of golden honey and sunshine that always fought for the good and the love. And this seems fairly harmless on the surface, I guess.

This is something I have noticed many times. Christians (and for the most part all theists) seem to argue that their religion was always a force for good. When one points out the wrongs their religion has done in the past, they always retort with the no true Scotsman fallacy. "Those people were not true christians. No true Christian would do that. Those were Catholics/Orthodox/etc"¦"

I hope Karlheinz Deschner book is translated into English soon. It sounds very interesting.

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

It is impossible in post-war Germany to look past piles of corpses and stay cool about it. The other causes and perpetrators have been identified and brought to justice, yet the Church and the religion are not only around , No, they are chipper and are happily talking about their values and their Christian love as if nothing ever happened. Nobody ever enters an objection. It sounds like their whole religion brought just peace, love and harmony. Not only that , they behave as if this is obvious. By asking for evidence, or god forbid, entering an objection, they are outraged. In the video they even go as far and claim that Christianity was in resistance against the fascistic regimes in Italy and Germany (there is pretty strong evidence to suggest that this is not true).

This is, in my view, the reason Atheists are bullied into a defensive stance, polite, rejecting the belief but silently agreeing to their benevolent religion made of golden honey and sunshine that always fought for the good and the love. And this seems fairly harmless on the surface, I guess.

This is something I have noticed many times. Christians (and for the most part all theists) seem to argue that their religion was always a force for good. When one points out the wrongs their religion has done in the past, they always retort with the no true Scotsman fallacy. "Those people were not true christians. No true Christian would do that. Those were Catholics/Orthodox/etc"¦"

I hope Karlheinz Deschner book is translated into English soon. It sounds very interesting.

It is my opinion that as soon as most theists team up on a non-believer they put aside those differences for the 'greater good' of performing a conversion. As soon as a single non-believer questions a specific part of their particular sect it dissolves into what you describe above. It's not a very consistent position to hold, IMHO.

Perhaps we have a little cognitive dissonance in what you are describing above.

Carry on and have a fantastic day.

 

[pbamma]

I've lately been on the fence of agressive vs. agreeable and trying to think of the best way to deal with different types of theists and different arguments. I recently f'd up an argument on the vestigial nature of the appendix which I was relying on old data that it was once thought the appendix was a vestigial digestion organ. Turns out science knows more about it which I found with a quick google search.
Even though I was incorrect in this particular argument (and did the research to support the xtian's refutation) this mistake was used to just dismiss everything else.

I've realized that life will now be a long journey of constant reading and thinking, but it's making me a better person anyway.

It will be interesting to learn more of Deschner's work.

 

[RAMIADOT]

The reason Karlheinz Deschner really is HATED by Christians of ALL dominations is simple: his books are VERY WELL researched, based on FACTS and nothing but facts, history and documentary EVIDENCE. NOBODY (= no 'scholar' nor layman!) has yet managed to refute any of Deschner's claims - many have tried and because they cannot 'get him' with facts, they have to resort to stupid personal attacks. So it seems, that in all the history of the church, NOTHING has changed! The only way this most dreadful deceit of humanity by humanity throughout the ages can be kept alive is by even more deceit.

I have read many books by Karlheinz Deschner (I am German and NOT proud of it!) and range him (IMHO) as THE church critic of our century, if not of all ages (others, including many HONEST theologists, have come to the same conclusion), because he is no coward but says out loud what he finds, DESPITE all the hate he receives from the many and the little thanks he receives from fellas like myself for all his work. I buy his books and recommend them whole heartedly to anybody who asks, sadly, that is all I feel I can do. A few hundred years ago the church would have burned the man, because they would lose every argument against his evidence (which he puts forward in a very eloquent way). They STILL lose all the arguments nowadays but they cannot burn him in real terms, they are confined just to spit in his face...

Over 50 years ago Deschner already wrote about many issues that 'modern scholars' (e.g. Bart Ehrman) just come to terms with and begin to publish - and many they are to discover yet! ANYBODY out there who can read German? PLEASE check "ABERMALS KRÄHTE DER HAHN" by Karlheinz Deschner, (C) 1962! - Paperback published in Oct. 1972 by Rohwolt Taschenbuch Verlag 727 pgs. of which 71 pages alone go to notes and citations (in very small print!).

 

[Collecemall]

At the risk of doing a bit of necromancy myself..... has anyone found translated versions of this in the intervening years?

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

The only book of his in English appears to be this one.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Collecemall]

Thanks!

 

[abelcainsbrother]

I'm a Christian and I do not overlook the bad things done in Christianity's name and I don't think the majority of Christians overlook it either but I think our point is that if you're going to blame most wars on Christians and use it to demonize Christianity then we are not going to let you whitewash the 20th century in which atheist dictators slaughtered more people than all Christian wars combined and also how despite all of the wrong things done in the name of Christianity you still were blessed far more to be living under Christian society than atheistic communist regimes that held their people back with propaganda amd indoctrination.You must ignore the 20 th century in order to bash Christianity and take so much knowledge you have for granted because of Christianity in the west.

Who in the west would want to live under atheistic communist regimes compared to Christian society?

 

[Inferno]

Who in the west would want to live under atheistic communist regimes compared to Christian society?

Why "communist"? Why is "atheism" = "communist"?

And anyway, fuck this whole "atheistic communist dictatorship" bullshit. Don't forget that every single one of these communist dictatorships propped up the head of state as equivalent to God. Mao? Godlike. Stalin? Godlike. And so on. Those are not atheistic regimes by any stretch of the imagination!