The Gap theory vs Darwinian Evolution theory.

[abelcainsbrother]

2nd Peter 3:3-7 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days mockers walking after their own lusts,And saying,Where is the promise of his coming(this is happening now in these last days because of the teaching of Darwinian evolution)for since the fathers died(evolution teaches man evolved from ape like ancestors)all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation(evolution goes back millions of years and keeps life going through ice ages,snow ball earth,etc so that life can keep evolving)For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of old,and the EARTH standing out of the water and in the water(Noah's flood only effected the earth so this cannot be talking about Noah's flood):Whereby the WORLD that then WAS being overflowed with water perished."

This tells us that there was a former world on this earth before this world existed that perished in water.

OK We go to Genesis 1:2"And the earth was without form and void;and darkness was upon the face of the deep.And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The earth is flooded and frozen. Science teaches that at one time early in the earth's history the earth was flooded before the continents rose up,this was before any life also,science thinks comets brought this water to the earth,but the point is it was flooded,and crystals confirm that the earth had to have been covered in water atleast one time in the earth's history.But also science teaches "snow ball earth also which says at one time in the earth's history the whole earth became frozen.So we have atleast 2 evidences from science backing this up.The problem is they are looking at everything from a stellar evolution point of view and are not considering what the bible sais.Science is not out to prove the bible true but here is atleast 2 examples of science confirming the bible true.

Then we go to Jeremiah 4:23-28" I beheld the earth,and lo,it was without form and void;and the heavens,and they had no light.I beheld the earth,and,lo,there was no man,and all the birds of heaven were fled.I beheld,and,lo,the fruitful place was a wilderness,and all the cities were broken down at the presence of the LORD,and by his fierce anger.For thus hath the Lird said,The whole land shall be desolate;yet will I not make a full end.For this shall the earth mourn,and the heavens above be black:because I have spoken it,I have purposed it,and I will not repent nor turn back from it."

As we can see Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4:23-28 are similar so blend them together to get a better picture in your head.We believe Jeremiah 4:23-28 is a glimpse back to the former world based on how this has not happened since Adam and Eve,including in Noah's flood and cannot be a future prophecy based on end time bible prophecy as people will still be alive when Jesus returns to rule and reign for 1000 years and the earth is not destroyed by fire until after this and then a new heaven and new earth are created.

We believe it had to do with Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelling against God so we call it Lucifer's flood based on our understanding and descrptions in the bible eventhough the term Lucifer's flood are not in the bible.Based on Isaiah 14:17,Ezekial 28:12-19,Luke 10:18,Rev 12:7-9,etc.

We believe the fossils coal and oil are evidence for this former world that perished that was on this earth billions of years ago full of life until they perished and all life including the plants,trees,etc that produced coal perished and went fully extinct and the earth sat in this damaged state for millions of years until God created this world,everything after Genesis 1:2 was God creating this world that we live in now.

Based on the fossils we can see that the former world had totally different animals,creatures,inhabitants,cities,dinosaurs,etc in it than this world has although it is possible that certain life existed in both the former world and this world too,and this world has humans or man and Neanderthal too which the former world did not have.We believe Neanderthals were the descendants of Cain who would have died out in Noah's flood which probably explains there sudden disappearance that has baffled certain scientists.

We know most scientists accept evolution and believe evolutionists mean well trying to prove evolution true but unfortunately are looking at the evidence from an evolution point of view which causes them to totally overlook the Gap despite how much life has perished and went extinct.They go back with life for millions of years and keep life living for millions of years and so overlook the Gap and two different worlds.

Despite what you may think the Gap theory is not a new theory,it was around before Charles Darwin,way before Charles Darwin.St Augastine believed in the Gap theory.Thomas Chalmers is claimed credit for the Gap theory but even William Buckland who was the first geology professor at Oxford believed it,but the Gap theory was in the church before Darwin going back atleast 500 years that we can detect right now.

We need to try to get you to clear your mind of everything you've heard about evolution and look at the evidence you know is used as evidence for evolution from the Gap theory perspective instead and we think if you do and are honest with yourself you'll see the evidence actually confirms the Gap theory the bible reveals to us.

This can be hard to do if you hate God or think the bible is a book of myths,etc but look at it honestly and we think you'll see the evidence lines up with the bible much more than it does evolution.

We reject evolution because Darwinian evolution has not been demonstrated and they only have evidence that life adapts for evidence that life evolves.We accept life adapts this is observable but Darwinian evolution has not and cannot be demonstrated and is believed more by faith than real evidence despite the layers and layers and layers of evidence that has been piled on top of Darwinian evolution.

We are not anti-secular science but embrace science.

 

[ardip]

The Creationist Scientific Method:

1) Use secular science to find the real answer
2) Find passages in the bible, and twist them to support the secular science
3) Claim the bible had it right all along

What never happens: A Creation Scientist makes an important discovery based on reading the bible

Furthermore, there are things the bible left out. Where is the talk about the New World? Or that germs cause disease? Or about the planets humans could not have seen? Or that Earth wasn't flat? All of those were found out from secular science.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

The Creationist Scientific Method:

1) Use secular science to find the real answer
2) Find passages in the bible, and twist them to support the secular science
3) Claim the bible had it right all along

What never happens: A Creation Scientist makes an important discovery based on reading the bible

Furthermore, there are things the bible left out. Where is the talk about the New World? Or that germs cause disease? Or about the planets humans could not have seen? Or that Earth wasn't flat? All of those were found out from secular science.

A lot of the bible is revealed over time and I am not saying the bible is a science book only that over time things science discovers confirms things the bible had said.We just may have overlooked it until it was/is disciovered like when germs were discovered,the bible did not mention them however the bible contains about 300 biblical laws on cleanliness and sanitation that if followed help you live longer by cutting down on the spread of germs.We also realize that both religious people and non-religious people have been wrong in the past and can be wrong again,so I am slow to accept evidence until I feel there is enough evidence.Also sometimes the way the bible is translated it can require deeper study to get a better meaning.

We have concordances that make it easier to do now if you want to do it,you can dig into the Hebrew and greek the bible was translated from.There have been times when Christians were wrong to try to make science fit into the bible like the flat earth stuff but,it was their interpretation that was wrong not the bible.The bible revealed our earth was round and said it was round and even said it hangs on nothing which is true compared to what other ancient cultures believed.Four corners of the earth does not mean the earth is flat and can be a poor translation which means we can dig into the Hebrew and greek fairly easily to see it means east,south,west,north.But if you just read it and ignored other parts of the bible then you might think it was flat back then.God wants us to read and study his word and we can if we want to.

 

[Dave B.]

Actually I am not asking that because that is not what evolution teaches.I am not saying a dinosaur gave birth to a bird,etc.

You're asking us to demonstrate variation outside of a "kind" (whatever the hell a kind is). In order to variate outside of their "kind" they would have to become a different "kind".

Can you demonstrate some sort of biological barrier that prevents an organism from becoming a different "kind" of organism through slight, successive modifications?

But for evolution to be true life must evolve over time to be different species.

Correct.

That evolution tree confuses you though because you'll just turn around look at it and claim birds are dinosaurs according to the tree looked at from an evolution point of view.

It's not just the morphological similarities that are being compared. There is a convergence of data that supports the ToE. This has been explained to you several times now.

Evolution teaches that over time all life evolved to the different species we have today.You teach Dinosaurs evolved over time to be birds.Don't you want to see it demonstrated?

It can't be demonstrated. If it could it wouldn't be a theory. It would be a fact.

Or do you just believe it because life adapts?

:facepalm:

 

[Mugnuts]

The only embracing of science that you are asserting is what is force fit into the scriptures. Then reject anything else until someone takes a leap and finds and obscure passage that they interpret to mean something it clearly does not, then proclaim the bible was right all along. Ridiculous!

You keep demanding demonstration. That's getting pretty old and it's your only basis of argument and for the umpteenth time, it is entirely fallacious. If you are so up on how demonstration applies:

Let me ask you how would you demonstrate the formation of Barringer Crater?

Demonstrate how we know the eruption dates of Major Volcanoes both with and without witnesses.

Demonstrate Ted Bundy's guilt of the murders he was accused of.

Those things happened so they can be demonstrated via evidence and the scientific method to a degree of certainty. No Faith at all required.

Then please demonstrate Noah's flood, parting of the sea for Moses, anything from Genesis, unicorns, demons, Satan, the cure from leprosy, etc.

 

[Mugnuts]

........still waiting. :roll:

 

[Mugnuts]

...waiting still. :x

 

[WarK]

*brings a crate of beer and joins the waiting*

 

[Darkprophet232]

*Brings a grille and family-sized package of burgers to help with the waiting*

 

[abelcainsbrother]

The only embracing of science that you are asserting is what is force fit into the scriptures. Then reject anything else until someone takes a leap and finds and obscure passage that they interpret to mean something it clearly does not, then proclaim the bible was right all along. Ridiculous!

How can I force it to fit into the scriptures? It either does or it doesn't and the few examples I have given like how science teaches the earth was flooded before the continents rose up early in its beginning before any life and "snow ball earth" and I can read Genesis 1:2 and see that the earth is both flooded and frozen and so science has detected it.Keep in mind that science is looking at everything through an evolution perspective and are not considering what the bible says.I was watching National Geographic:The story of the earth which is on youtube one day and as I watched it I realized how similar what science teaches is very similar to what Genesis 1 tells us. Like the earth is flooded then eventually the continents rose up like when we read Genesis 1:8-10 and you'll see God says "Let the dry land appear" which means the continents rose up just like science says,but as I watched further I noticed that even life comes in almost the same order as the bible says with the only difference is science saying life first appeared in water while the bible says land,but desides that the trees,animals,beasts,etc came in order with what science teaches all the way to man being created last.Of course though science implies it evolved on its own without God creating it but it is similar. I was amazed that more has been revealed to us because of man's discoveries.

You keep demanding demonstration. That's getting pretty old and it's your only basis of argument and for the umpteenth time, it is entirely fallacious. If you are so up on how demonstration applies:

Well I do it for a reason.I truly would like to see it demonstrated that life evolves but it has not been,yet it has been taught to our society as scientific truth.You cannot say dinosaurs evolved into birds over time and yet all of your evidence does not confirm it,yet it it happening and has been for years.Stop giving them a pass and look for a demonstration yourself and you'll see only adaptation is what they have and life evolving is assumed based on how life can adapt,they stretch the evidence and believe by faith that life evolves because life adapts.But I know and you should know that life adapting is different from life evolving as they have taught it to us for years.They are having to back away from what they have been teaching for years while still teaching dinosaurs evolved into birds yet when called on it revert back to just adaptation,meanwhile society is being indoctrinated to believe not only did dinosaurs evolved into birds but also that life evolved into being without God needed which also cannot be demonstrated.We cannot watch a TV show about the universe,life,etc and not see how it is implied it happened all on its own without God,a higher power,etc,whether it be the universe and life and yet it cannot be demonstrated. Have you been indoctrinated by it? Because it seems like you have.

Let me ask you how would you demonstrate the formation of Barringer Crater?

We know the earth has been hit by meteors,etc so you are not making sense in order to prop up life evolving.

Demonstrate how we know the eruption dates of Major Volcanoes both with and without witnesses.

Evidence.

Demonstrate Ted Bundy's guilt of the murders he was accused of.

Evidence

Those things happened so they can be demonstrated via evidence and the scientific method to a degree of certainty. No Faith at all required.

Not when it comes to life evolving.Why not life evolving?It sounds like you were deceived away from God based on the belief that life can evolve into being without the need for God and that life evolves and perhaps young earth creationism.But know this,we may not can demonstrate God creating it but they cannot demonstrate life evolving into being on its own and even life evolving.Perhaps you should've discovered the Gap theory instead of turning away from God even if young earth creationists offended you to the point that you could no longer defend it.It is not either evolution and naturalism or young earth creationism,there are other theories out there. Seek and ye shall find.

Then please demonstrate Noah's flood, parting of the sea for Moses, anything from Genesis, unicorns, demons, Satan, the cure from leprosy, etc.

I do not defend atheists twisted interpretations of the bible which you are trying to set up.But will say this it is much easier to believe everything in the bible including Noah's flood,the parting of the red sea,etc than to believe we can have this universe and life based on the fairy tale that nothing can produce it and cause it to happen or naturalism and that no creator is needed.You overlook this.
I can easily believe God can do miracles as a Christian which the bible clearly teaches and because of my testimonies yet you cannot demonstrate life poofing into existence on its own without a creator or even life evolving yet think I have problems,no it is you that have problems because of science fiction that you must put your faith in.

 

[Mugnuts]

I'm not going to use the quote function because I'm an a tablet and it takes forever.

Flat out you contradict your response to the first part. You have to force fit any evidence supporting a worldwide flood because the preponderance of evidence goes against a worldwide flood. Science doesn't teach there was a worldwide flood at all. The bible teaches it. The bible is not scientific.

You have entirely missed the point, but at least answered properly on my series of questions involving evidence and demonstration. No body had to demonstrate each of those examples to know what happened. They used evidence. None of it required an evolutionary presupposition. Guess what...no one uses an evolutionary presupposing position to get to the workings of nature all of the time, and those still contradict the bibles teachings. There are the hypotheses' that do start that way and go through testing, experiment and prediction, and guess what. It fucking works. You don't throw out what works and use something that doesn't.

BTW I was never a creationist, I wasn't ever deceived away from god, but I did once believe in some sort of higher power. The difference is I went the opposite of being indoctrinated. I read, and watched and learned. Garbage in, garbage out. I don't use faith, but when I used to, all it did is keep me down. I am so tired of what I consider the utmost epitome of functionally retarded belief system you have been trying to defend, because you offer absolutely nothing.

I'm done with you. I thought it would be fun for a discussion, and I will always remember your Sabre-Cat comment and hold that dear in my heart, because it just warms me up just so deep inside. Other than that moment, it's just been a waste of time attempting to see if you had any reasoning capabilities at all, and not very enlightening.

All hail the Great Frozen Head. :ugeek:

Edited cause my tablet turned 'never' to 'nevertheless' somehow. Huge difference.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

Mugnuts thanks for your reply.

All I have done is read the bible and look into science and try to find evidence,and I did,I cannot make it fit if it doesn't but it does.As we go forward more things will be revealed and we need to be discovering it and this is what I try to do. Like I said in Genesis 1:2 we see the earth is already there and is covered in water this is what scientists say after the earth was formed they do say the whole earth was covered with water,they think comets brought the water here but the earth is covered in water before the continents rose up this was before any life the bible also tells us the continents were raised when God said "Let the dry land appear" this lines up with what secular science tells us.

OK but also the earth is frozen too and scientists do have the "snow ball earth" hypotheisis which states that atleast one time the earth became frozen.I have quibbles about how they view it though,you see they look at everything from an evolution perspective and must keep life alive so that it can evolve,this had to be the case before "snow ball earth" could be accepted,life had to have survived it so that it could evolve.But my point is both the bible and secular science tell us the earth was frozen in its past.I believe the earth became frozen after the former world perished and it sat in this state for millions of years and no life survived it because the heavens became black which means the earth froze and why we see it frozen in Genesis 1:2 before God starts to create this world on this earth

Scientists are looking at it from a totally different perspective this causes them to overlook the former world that existed on this earth the bible reveals to us full of life that perished and all life in it went extinct and this is what the fossil evidence tell us,it in no way is evidence for evolution and life evolving.The fossils simply tell us all of this life lived at one time perished and went extinct and produced the fossils we see as evidence,this life produced all of the fossils coal and oil for this world we live in now that God created later after the earth sat in a damaged state for millions of years there was a gap of time between the former world and this world.Evolution cannot accept this because they always make a way for life to survive somehow despite how much life went extinct.

God starts restoring the earth at Genesis 1:2 so that it can be habitable for life again so he can create the life we have in this world. The fossils also tell us the life in the former world was different than the life God created in this world.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

I do not believe dinosaurs were in this world like young earth creationists believe I believe they lived in the former world and perished.Young earth creationists totally ignore science about the age of the universe and earth.I get irritated as a Christian when I see them trying to put man's foot prints as evidence that Job seen dinosaurs because they are described.There were man-like creatures in the former world as the fossils tell us,evolutionists think man evolved from them but this is not the case as life does not evolve and there is no scientific evidence to demonstrate that life evolves and it is why they are looking at the evidence from a flawed perspective.The devil has them blind to the truth and they don't realize it.Satan is the father of lies.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

2nd Peter 3:3-7 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days mockers walking after their own lusts,And saying,Where is the promise of his coming(this is happening now in these last days because of the teaching of Darwinian evolution)for since the fathers died(evolution teaches man evolved from ape like ancestors)all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation(evolution goes back millions of years and keeps life going through ice ages,snow ball earth,etc so that life can keep evolving)For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of old,and the EARTH standing out of the water and in the water(Noah's flood only effected the earth so this cannot be talking about Noah's flood):Whereby the WORLD that then WAS being overflowed with water perished."


Also do not overlook that this is a fulfilled bible prophecy that we see happening now in these last days Christians are being mocked in these last days because of evolution which teaches "since the fathers died all things continue as they were from the beginning.

Peter tells us they are ignorant of the former world that perished in water.So you evolutionists who mock Christians are evidence that this is a fulfilled bible prophecy being fulfilled in these last days.You reinforce my faith in God's word the prophecies in it and the fact that they are being fulfilled just like the bible said.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

2nd Peter 3:3-7 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days mockers walking after their own lusts,And saying,Where is the promise of his coming(this is happening now in these last days because of the teaching of Darwinian evolution)for since the fathers died(evolution teaches man evolved from ape like ancestors)all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation(evolution goes back millions of years and keeps life going through ice ages,snow ball earth,etc so that life can keep evolving)For this they willingly are ignorant of,that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of old,and the EARTH standing out of the water and in the water(Noah's flood only effected the earth so this cannot be talking about Noah's flood):Whereby the WORLD that then WAS being overflowed with water perished."


Also do not overlook that this is a fulfilled bible prophecy that we see happening now in these last days Christians are being mocked in these last days because of evolution which teaches "since the fathers died all things continue as they were from the beginning.

Peter tells us they are ignorant of the former world that perished in water.So you evolutionists who mock Christians are evidence that this is a fulfilled bible prophecy being fulfilled in these last days.You reinforce my faith in God's word the prophecies in it and the fact that they are being fulfilled just like the bible said.

 

[Prolescum]

2nd Peter 3:3-7 "Knowing this first,that there shall come in the last days mockers walking after their own lusts,And saying,Where is the promise of his coming

2nd Hugh 1:4-5 "Know this old chum, verily are those enamoured and glamoured by such faith as of the old gods and their minions to be mistrusted in the days of scholastic endeavour, lest their cracked pots be revealed to cut your new world asunder."

 

[Rumraket]

Still no evidence life evolves and all we get is bible deniars.Without evidence that life evolves like you have bought into you will not be able to hide behind peer reviewed science because the truth will shine through.

 

[Mugnuts]

Funny how this topic got dropped and resurrected in the reason with the brick wall...I mean brethren thread. :roll:

 

[abelcainsbrother]

Unfortunately evolutionists have looked at the evidence all wrong.The evidence in this earth that all of you evolutionists know about has nothing to do with life evolving but instead is evidence of a former world full of life that existed on this earth before God created this world.You atheists can come back to the bible now.You can have both the bible and science hand in hand.They go hand in hand when our biblical interpretation is right.The gap theory defeats the theory of evolution with much of the very same evidence.

Look at the dinosaurs,look at primates,look at sabre toothed tigers,wooly mammoths,etc and know this is the life that lived in the former world that perished and since not one scientist have ever demonstrated life evolves there is no way dinosaurs that lived in the former world evolved into the birds in this world.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

Still no evidence life evolves and all we get is bible deniars.Without evidence that life evolves like you have bought into you will not be able to hide behind peer reviewed science because the truth will shine through.

Much of that evidence is evidence for a former world full of life that perished.It is time to tell the truth about what the evidence proves and it is not evolution even though everything has been looked at and interpreted from that perspective.The theory of evolution is probably the best theory a secular man could come up with based on the evidence but when we bring in the bible and what it revealed long ago that has been overlooked by many the evidence in this earth is evidence of a former world that perished before God created this world.