The Future Value of things...

[Durakken]

It seems to me that if the value of things are truly based on supply and demand that the value of most things, economically, has been or will be, reduced to 0.

we will soon have the technology to produce a near limitless amount of energy, the ability to rearrange atoms into anything we wish, instant communication across the planet, access to all art and media, and not to mention nearly every bit of information, both real and fictional that the world has ever produced...

So consider if you will the fact that there is infinite or infinite supply of all the things I just mentioned it bears the question, what then could hold value you in the future that we don't arbitrarily apply value because we think that it is needed for society to work.

Could thought be valued as a commodity?
Perhaps only good thought?

 

[Andiferous]

Isn't supply and demand somewhat artificial at the moment anyway?

In an elementary bartering economy we'd focus most of our efforts on things that lend themselves directly to survival. In a way, the global economy is allowing first world nations luxuries on the backs of third world nations and cheap labour and such.

I agree, complete mechanisation would throw an interesting wrench into the works...

 

[borrofburi]

Supply and demand is not at all arbitrary right now. Err, I should clarify, under the definitions of "arbitrary" that I can think of S&D is not arbitrary, however I can not be certain until you provide a definition of arbitrary.

It seems to me that if the value of things are truly based on supply and demand that the value of most things, economically, has been or will be, reduced to 0.

Never.

we will soon have the technology to produce a near limitless amount of energy, the ability to rearrange atoms into anything we wish, instant communication across the planet, access to all art and media, and not to mention nearly every bit of information, both real and fictional that the world has ever produced...

No, we will not have the technology to produce "near limitless amount of energy". As far as physical printing, it's possible, it's a rather young field though, as with most fields the "possibilities" seem endless (and endlessly difficult) at first, and then we get a better idea of the restrictions.

So consider if you will the fact that there is infinite or infinite supply of all the things I just mentioned it bears the question, what then could hold value you in the future that we don't arbitrarily apply value because we think that it is needed for society to work.

Could thought be valued as a commodity?
Perhaps only good thought?

Information. Thought is a form of information. Google is also in a good spot, organization of information is information. In such a world with infinite energy and small limitations on physical knowledge of how to make that energy create the things you want, information becomes the new economy. There's also information like a better design for ___ to print from your new physical printing device. The list is pretty long (by which I mean probably infinite, though if we divide it up into categories then there are probably a large number of those), but the short version is that such a future the valuable asset would switch primarily from energy to information.

 

[obsidianavenger]

we will soon have the technology to produce a near limitless amount of energy, the ability to rearrange atoms into anything we wish, instant communication across the planet, access to all art and media, and not to mention nearly every bit of information, both real and fictional that the world has ever produced...

we will?

instantaneous communication violates what we know of phsyics so i am gonna scratch that one...

if we master controlled nuclear fusion, we will have an enormous energy boost too be sure, and the price of energy will become very cheap. however, this is still not an unlimited amount of energy, though it may seem like it from where we are now. and furthermore it is extremely likely that people would then drastic increase energy consumption on projects that would have been prohibitively expensive before the breakthrough.

in a way, you're on the right track, because it is *ideas* that add value once the cost of materials becomes relatively cheap. for example, look at how many consulting firms there are nowadays... when its nothing special anymore to build or produce material things, services and ideas become the main economic base... kind of like the US is now...

In an elementary bartering economy we'd focus most of our efforts on things that lend themselves directly to survival. In a way, the global economy is allowing first world nations luxuries on the backs of third world nations and cheap labour and such.

this is the basic idea but i wouldn't put it so negatively. if we only concentrated on producing things to aid our own survival, not only would we have a lot less technology ourselves, but i think those third world countries you speak of would be worse off too, since they would be without the influx of outside weath in the form of jobs and aid....

 

[Andiferous]

In an elementary bartering economy we'd focus most of our efforts on things that lend themselves directly to survival. In a way, the global economy is allowing first world nations luxuries on the backs of third world nations and cheap labour and such.

this is the basic idea but i wouldn't put it so negatively. if we only concentrated on producing things to aid our own survival, not only would we have a lot less technology ourselves, but i think those third world countries you speak of would be worse off too, since they would be without the influx of outside weath in the form of jobs and aid....

Definitely a catch-22, although I think perhaps the western ideal of capitalism and competition for cheap product doesn't do much to help sweatshop workers. Sorry, this is a total derailing and probably more appropriate for the fields of philosophy and ethics. My main point was that in a global economy no one of us exists in a bubble, and economic principles must be quite complex.

 

[richi1173]

It seems to me that if the value of things are truly based on supply and demand that the value of most things, economically, has been or will be, reduced to 0.

That would be true if we had perfect competition but alas we don't. We have an oligopoly of firms who don't compete on the basis of price but on the quality of their products. For example, Chevron has Techron and Shell has Nitrogen, but their price remains relatively equal to avoid cutthroat competition. Prices have gotten cheaper overall because of growth and, most importantly, improvement of the capital stock, but its highly unlikely that the marginal cost of a product would be 0. Even if it is though, the firm would still face fixed costs like R&D.

we will soon have the technology to produce a near limitless amount of energy, the ability to rearrange atoms into anything we wish, instant communication across the planet, access to all art and media, and not to mention nearly every bit of information, both real and fictional that the world has ever produced...

Well if by soon you mean in a thousand years, then, possibly.

So consider if you will the fact that there is infinite or infinite supply of all the things I just mentioned it bears the question, what then could hold value you in the future that we don't arbitrarily apply value because we think that it is needed for society to work.

Could thought be valued as a commodity?
Perhaps only good thought?

A consumer would still hold value for a certain product until their marginal utility reaches 0. If we had infinite supply, then a consumer would be able to reach his/her maximum level of satisfaction. Like I don't know, 10 ipads and 45 tons of beef or something like that.

Thought is valued right now as a commodity, and pretty highly.