The future of religion?

[ladiesman391]

What's in store for the future of religion?

Are we headed in an more atheistic direction with religion eventually becoming an underground practice that would be akin to the way Satanists behave?

Is religion only ever going to get stronger and more dominant?

Is it just going to ebb and flow: Today religion is popular, Tomorrow religion is not popular?

Will religion become outlawed? Should it become outlawed?

Will another World War wipe out religion or strengthen it? Would it be wrong to start a World War with the purpose of cleaning out religion?

Is religion like an incurable cancer, a constant, that will always exist and cannot be eradicated?

If we just ignore it will it go away?

Will it morph and evolve into something completely unheard of and unknown to us?

Will religion be the cause of the end of human existence?

 

[Epicion]

Religion will die by the propagation and further development of information and education.

-Epicion

 

[ApostateProphet]

Religion won't die on it's own. We have to find a way to kill it. Never underestimate the ability of the human animal to demonstrate stupidity and stubbornness in a nihilistic spiral of doom.

 

[porkyson]

in time the amonut religion has decrease in ratio with the amount of people in the world

so what im saying is that nearly everyone thought there was a god

i think that the amount of people has gone up but in the same ratio has, lets say 500 hundred years ago

 

[magichands]

The idea of god will still be here.

Personally ive got my own way of interpreting the bible that makes sense, it agrees pretty scientifically(I also watched some specials which put some scientific perspectives on some of the most bullshit statements in the bible), and I still think science can figure out things in the natural universe, and it makes me happier without any detriments that I can see.

My parents were raised religious but didnt raise me religious, but it turns out all the morals they taught me that just seem common sense today they got from the bible.

Its pretty nice when reason and this are intertwined as they are for me, but thats just my opinion.

 

[Neverwhere]

Are we headed in an more atheistic direction with religion eventually becoming an underground practice that would be akin to the way Satanists behave?

There isn't much pointing in that direction really. The current direction religion is taking is towards individualism so it's likely to become more decentralized, but not necessarily more secularized. People shun then major mainstream religions, but instead they look up something more suited to their own world-view.

Is religion only ever going to get stronger and more dominant?

It could, I mean, religion rising in popularity is in no way impossible. I'm not even all that sure it's a bad thing as long as it's on a to each his own basis. I'm more conserned about fanticism and over-zelousy than the acctual religion itself.

Is it just going to ebb and flow: Today religion is popular, Tomorrow religion is not popular?

Hard to say really. Education can do much but it can't cure stupidity. Wierd as it might sound, "Goddidit" is to some people an easy way to explain the world. Way easier than to look into all the various teories regarding our world.

Will religion become outlawed? Should it become outlawed?

Well it's been tried. They did in in Sovjet and all that happened was that the discussion ended and people went underground. Making it illegal wouldn't kill it in any way, neither would it bring elignment to anyone, censorship rarely does.

Will another World War wipe out religion or strengthen it? Would it be wrong to start a World War with the purpose of cleaning out religion?

Depends on the cause of the war doesn't it? But religion remained pretty intact durring the last two so I don't think the third, ruling out armageddon, will have much effect either. Also, a war to erradicate religion would just be a religious war in the name of atheism. I don't think that's were we want to go and yes it would be just as wrong as any holy war.

Is religion like an incurable cancer, a constant, that will always exist and cannot be eradicated?

Pretty much yes.

If we just ignore it will it go away?

Ignoring a problem never fixes it and could possibly make it worse.

Will it morph and evolve into something completely unheard of and unknown to us?

Naah, we have the gist of it. imaginary friends says so, lunatic does so. But I guess it's allways possible for new trends to arise...

Will religion be the cause of the end of human existence?

Religion says it wants to be... Well if not directly then I dare say that it will at least be a factor indirectly. See exhibit A) Global Warming

 

[salko7]

future of religion ?
for them its clear , prophecies that must be done so they can get what they want , muslims must destroy israel
israel must take over the land that they think its holy.
both sides are trying to do so and doctrine it into their children instead of teaching them to stop fighting and find peace they teach that they are raped out of their right or land and that they must fight and not settle for a share of land.
the future is written in the holy books and people are going to try to make what ever is written to happen. (self fulfilling prophecy)

can religion be removed , outlawed , ignored ?
it cant be ignored its something that keeps poking you and never stopping to the point where you just cant take it any more and the only way to stop the poking is by breaking it , the way to let religion fade is by stopping the doctrine of children who have no idea of how the world really works, children depend on their parents to understand the world and those parents are going to mirror their beliefs on the child making it harder for the child to look into alternative ideas and views.(not to forget the hate that it teaches)

Is it just going to ebb and flow: Today religion is popular, Tomorrow religion is not popular?
as some one who grew in the shia doctrine we had to believe that an emam will show up to lead the muslims to victory
and many say that we are living in the "time that he will apper" , iv asked my mother if they were saying the same thing when she was young ,she simply said:"yes" , sadly this waiting time is not getting any less popular its getting more intense as people see every event as a sign that its true and that it will happen in their life time.

i must add to this that not every body in the muslim country is devoted to serving god ,some live their lives as there is a god but dont bother speaking about their beliefs, some follow every religious event that happens and live their lives linking every thing to god.
there are people who seem hidden in what they believe (sitting on the bench) they see the truth in both sides and are confused
(a person i know who believes in islam but finds that stuff science shows are true, he even openly said some people are just idiots for not seeing whats true in science).

i could go on describing how islam + culture and society - are effecting people and how they want to live cause there are alot of people who dont want the religion but need it to keep their culture the same and some sadly to control the society.

 

[CVBrassil]

Outlawing religion would be just wrong, I think everyone will agree to that.

Anyways, I see religion diminishing. It will never be gone, and I have a feeling for quite a long time people will still consider themselves "Christian", but people will become more secular.

And I mean, by the time we find confirmed life on another planet, won't that be a big enough hole in at least the creationist argument? Well, I'm sure it will become a conspiracy theory that we made up existence of life wherever.

 

[IvantheLizard]

What's in store for the future of religion?

Are we headed in an more atheistic direction with religion eventually becoming an underground practice that would be akin to the way Satanists behave?

Is religion only ever going to get stronger and more dominant?

Is it just going to ebb and flow: Today religion is popular, Tomorrow religion is not popular?

Will religion become outlawed? Should it become outlawed?

Will another World War wipe out religion or strengthen it? Would it be wrong to start a World War with the purpose of cleaning out religion?

Is religion like an incurable cancer, a constant, that will always exist and cannot be eradicated?

If we just ignore it will it go away?

Will it morph and evolve into something completely unheard of and unknown to us?

Will religion be the cause of the end of human existence?

Possibly. It would be the best situation in the end. Most, if not all, of the underground cults we hear about usually cause no trouble to ordinary folks and like to keep to themselves.

Probably not. Science will greatly weaken religion. This does have the possibility of making the remaining big religions extremely violent as only the fundies are left remaining although there may be more of them.

This is possible but unlikely. Science is becoming more and more dominant in most societies. What may, and is already, happening is religion adapting itself to science to the point where it evaporates and only science is left.

I read a fiction book on religion becoming outlawed. The religious then become like a resistance movement (portrayed as the underdog heroes) and biblical things start happening, e.g. water suddenly vanishes in all of California, but only for the non-religion. By banning religion we make them seem like the victims they try to portray themselves as and that gives them a foothold to climb higher with.

The next world war will most likely be religion based. As in, the major religions against each other. This will weaken it though as it will ultimately prove that the religious are more violent than the non-religious and it will deplete their forces.

It is a cancer but it can be gotten rid of. It's just a slow cure.

Ignoring it will only help it grow. It should be dealt with, but in a passive-aggressive way and it should be aimed at children and those on the fence. We must prove that they are ignorant, violent, and do not help society in any significant way.

Some will evolve, but they will simply evolve into science or more "pagan" practices will take their place. (Nature worship aka PETA, "God" becomes a figurative term for the universe itself, so on)

If it continues to grow more powerful (which I doubt) then yes.

 

[SouthPaw]

What's in store for the future of religion?

Are we headed in an more atheistic direction with religion eventually becoming an underground practice that would be akin to the way Satanists behave?

it might.. i sertainly hope so

Is religion only ever going to get stronger and more dominant?

islam probably will, but christianity will probably not

Is it just going to ebb and flow: Today religion is popular, Tomorrow religion is not popular?

no idea, it will probably be replaced more and more with new age unless something is done to undermine mysticism and supernatural spiritualism in our societies

Will religion become outlawed? Should it become outlawed?

probably no, and no it should not, Only when paid for with taxmoney

Will another World War wipe out religion or strengthen it? Would it be wrong to start a World War with the purpose of cleaning out religion?

another world war would most probably weaken religion at first (unless driven by it). And yes, it would be wrong to try to exterminate religion. And if it is done and fails, we as atheists will pay the price for it in every damn argument with theists.. just like we do now with communism

Is religion like an incurable cancer, a constant, that will always exist and cannot be eradicated?

it is incurable within our race, yes.. if our intellect keeps evolving, we might see it's death but that is unlikely. Extremism can likewise never be eradicated completely and forever, not when the mainstream religion still exists to protect the false virtue of faith

If we just ignore it will it go away?

no, we have to fight it

Will it morph and evolve into something completely unheard of and unknown to us?

dunno

Will religion be the cause of the end of human existence?

Yes, if anything does, it's war. and if there's any motivator irrational enough to make people endanger the planet, it's religion

 

[WolfAU]

"Is religion only ever going to get stronger and more dominant?"
Highly unlikely, religion thrives on desperation and ignorance and I think we're making progress on both of those.

The most likely outcome is that religions will continue to exist, just slowly becoming smaller and smaller, less and less influencial, eventually we'll see an 'extinction burst' (ie religious leaders doing dramatic things to try to save their religion) but for the most part I see no evidence that it will grow stronger or remain as strong... that is assuming we don't blow ourselves up or get locked into religious WW3.

For the most part people believe what they want to believe, and when peoples weariness of conflict outweighs their desire for an afterlife, they'll give up their faith (or stop obeying their leaders).

"Will religion become outlawed? Should it become outlawed?"
Should it, yes, it is guilty of more atrocities than any organised crime syndicate in human history. Will it, hopefully not, outlawing it would play right into their persecution complex and force them underground, this would be counterproductive.

"Will another World War wipe out religion or strengthen it? Would it be wrong to start a World War with the purpose of cleaning out religion?"
Depends who starts it and who wins it, if fundie Muslim's win I think we both know the answer.

"Is religion like an incurable cancer, a constant, that will always exist and cannot be eradicated?"
Christianity could be 'cured', religion could be 'cured', superstition or belief in a God or Gods would be almost impossible to remove completely.

"If we just ignore it will it go away?"
Nope.

"Will it morph and evolve into something completely unheard of and unknown to us?"
Will religion morph, found new belief systems etc, definately, something completely unfathomable to us today, highly unlikely.

"Will religion be the cause of the end of human existence?"
Unlikely, human superstition, fear, distrust, selfishness, hubris and apathy will likely be the causes.

 

[Vekin]

Trying to get rid of religion by outlawing it or starting wars are horrible, horrible ideas. I'm surprised you even considered this worthy of debate. If you ask me, it's almost as if you're drifting into what the theists are claiming you already are. :|

We don't need people using 1984 style thought police or newage wars to propagate atheism. That would just make you as bad as militant religious people, if not worse, as you espouse an ideology that's supposed to know better. We need education and freedom for all people, not yet another ideology in the trend of pointless conflicts.

 

[TheOtherSide100]

Making religion illegal and punishing people would be a bad idea. I read about that woman who was put to death in Korea for being Xtian. The Inquisition comes to mind; being put to The Question.

The only thing that will effective eradicate religion is education. Keeping people stupid is what provides strength to business (cheap labor) and religion (continued flow of followers).

One big hole in my thought, however, is how to deal with the practice of indoctrination (brainwashing).

 

[Marcus]

Religions are good at playing the victim card. That's how Christians in the US can claim with a straight face that they suffer discrimination despite being in the clear majority and wielding a disproportionate amount of power. That's how church organisations can claim with a straight face that they are being discriminated against by laws that aim to prevent them from discriminating against homosexuals. It's also very much a part of human nature to feel sympathy for groups we perceive as being oppressed. So not only is it morally wrong to try to ban religion, any attempt to do so will be counterproductive, as history shows us.

We simply can't expect any kind of quick fix for the problem of religion. The mechanisms for childhood indoctrination and the evolutionary basis for acceptance of authority by the young are fairly well established, as are the psychological hurdles of leaving one's community, severing ties with family and admitting that one was wrong on a matter previously subject to massive emotional investment. In short, it is easy for religions to continue to propagate by simply "breeding" and difficult to bring those raised in deeply religious environments out of the cults.

I think things will go in the right direction in the long run. Although I'm not aware of any actual studies (and would be delighted to be pointed at any!), it appears anecdotally that many more people leave religions and become atheists than vice versa. A comparison of this flow globally with reproduction rates among religious and irreligious communities would also be nice to see. The other useful fact is that greater education is strongly linked with higher incidences of atheism, and greater education is also linked with greater sociopolitical influence - see, for instance, the good standing of evolution education in the US in relation to popular opinion in that country.

It's not going to be a free ride, but as long as rational people continue to stand against disproprtionate influence for religions and freedom of education and expression, the tide will keep going our way. I have no idea if religions will die out completely in the future, but I can certainly foresee the developed world becoming effectively secular within a few generations. The Muslim world may take a little longer.

 

[WolfAU]

Re punishing believers, even if we outlawed faith that would achieve nothing (ala having old school Christians being eaten by lions), but if we played the money game, ie closed down churches and fined people for street preaching, organising formal religious gatherings etc, then we could make it too prohibatively costly to continue, I would love to see that applied to certain groups like scientology, but for the most part I think just achieving a victory in the public domain would be more than sufficient (ie removing public displays of religion, removing its influence in politics) even if we did nothing further to outlaw faith.

 

[ladiesman391]

Re punishing believers, even if we outlawed faith that would achieve nothing (ala having old school Christians being eaten by lions), but if we played the money game, ie closed down churches and fined people for street preaching, organising formal religious gatherings etc, then we could make it too prohibatively costly to continue, I would love to see that applied to certain groups like scientology, but for the most part I think just achieving a victory in the public domain would be more than sufficient (ie removing public displays of religion, removing its influence in politics) even if we did nothing further to outlaw faith.

Making religion illegal and punishing people would be a bad idea. I read about that woman who was put to death in Korea for being Xtian. The Inquisition comes to mind; being put to The Question.

The only thing that will effective eradicate religion is education. Keeping people stupid is what provides strength to business (cheap labor) and religion (continued flow of followers).

One big hole in my thought, however, is how to deal with the practice of indoctrination (brainwashing).

I've put some thought into this and what if instead of making religion outlawed altogether, we should make it that you have to be 18+ (or something similar) before you can start studying and practicing religion (or something similar) so that we can protect children from being exposed and indoctrinated from a young age? This would surely lower their numbers....

Wolfs ideas are good also I think.

 

[Marcus]

Any kind of legal restrictions on religion are liable to be counterproductive, and this includes preventing indoctrination. You have to remember that these people genuinely believe that indoctrinating their kids is more important than preserving their lives - it's preserving their immortal souls. The effect of trying to prevent them from doing this would be socially divisive and at best would merely cause these people to emigrate, making the problem worse somewhere else. The main weapon we have is education. We need to start by removing all state support for sectarian educational establishments. We can't stop people from sending their kids to private religious schools, but we can certainly stop funding indoctrination. As long as the state supported curriculum includes views of tolerant citizenship and looking at a variety of religions as socio-historical entities, that will set the general trend towards secularism (not the same as atheism!).

 

[Vekin]

I've put some thought into this and what if instead of making religion outlawed altogether, we should make it that you have to be 18+ (or something similar) before you can start studying and practicing religion (or something similar) so that we can protect children from being exposed and indoctrinated from a young age? This would surely lower their numbers....

Wolfs ideas are good also I think.

That's just replacing one problem with an even worse one. Increasing the state's authority to control what one thinks or does on their own time is a bad idea. The worst atrocities in history were perpetrated by people trying to spread their ideals for the "Greater good." This plan is no different. At best you'd create an authoritarian regime, probably with a strong militant movement against it. Whatever evils you attribute to religion, you must realize that destroying freedom is far worse.

You must allow for the basic rights which the greatest thinkers of the enlightenment considered "Unalienable." Those concepts were some of the greatest achievements of mankind. It would be foolish to ignore them now.

Call me a bleeding heart, but it really bothers me to see that people's main reason for rejecting the illegalization of religion is that it would be counterproductive to the atheist movement, rather than simply recognizing it as a massive blow against human rights.

 

[Marcus]

Call me a bleeding heart, but it really bothers me to see that people's main reason for rejecting the illegalization of religion is that it would be counterproductive to the atheist movement, rather than simply recognizing it as a massive blow against human rights.

If you're a bleeding heart, then so am I. I still maintain that it's morally wrong to enforce any religion or lack thereof on anyone, as long as the observance of that religion is their free and informed choice and doesn't materially harm anyone outside their religion.

The only area of moral uncertainty is the situation of children. Just as a child can't, due to lack of maturity, make an informed choice to drink alcohol, take drugs, have elective surgery or consent to sex, a child can't make an informed choice to be a member of a religion. The problem is that if a person is cloistered throughout childhood and effectively brainwashed into thinking that their coreligionists are right and outsiders are wrong and out to get you, then it's next to impossible to convince them they've been lied to all their lives once they do reach an age to make an informed choice. Any attempt to counter this will be met by resistance, not only from the religious extremists who don't want their children to be exposed to reality before it's too late, but also by their "useful idiot" liberal/multiculturalist apologists. If you doubt this, try discussing the possibility of banning medically unnecessary irreversible surgical procedures on children too young to talk, let alone make an informed choice on the decision to have such a procedure. Try to see if you can get your interlocutor to decry foot binding or female genital mutilation as immoral before shifting on to infant circumcision. If people are willing to allow people to physically mutilate their children for "religious" or "cultural" reasons, think how much harder it would be to have them support a ban on the much less tangible harm of indoctrination.

 

[ladiesman391]

If you're a bleeding heart, then so am I. I still maintain that it's morally wrong to enforce any religion or lack thereof on anyone, as long as the observance of that religion is their free and informed choice and doesn't materially harm anyone outside their religion.

The only area of moral uncertainty is the situation of children. Just as a child can't, due to lack of maturity, make an informed choice to drink alcohol, take drugs, have elective surgery or consent to sex, a child can't make an informed choice to be a member of a religion. The problem is that if a person is cloistered throughout childhood and effectively brainwashed into thinking that their coreligionists are right and outsiders are wrong and out to get you, then it's next to impossible to convince them they've been lied to all their lives once they do reach an age to make an informed choice. Any attempt to counter this will be met by resistance, not only from the religious extremists who don't want their children to be exposed to reality before it's too late, but also by their "useful idiot" liberal/multiculturalist apologists. If you doubt this, try discussing the possibility of banning medically unnecessary irreversible surgical procedures on children too young to talk, let alone make an informed choice on the decision to have such a procedure. Try to see if you can get your interlocutor to decry foot binding or female genital mutilation as immoral before shifting on to infant circumcision. If people are willing to allow people to physically mutilate their children for "religious" or "cultural" reasons, think how much harder it would be to have them support a ban on the much less tangible harm of indoctrination.

Well said Marcus.