The Fine-Tuning Argument: The Worst Argument for Theism

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

If you know someone buried them there, then it makes sense that there must have been a purpose for their doing so. If you don't know they were buried, how can you say there's a "purpose" to there being there?

The same applies to the universe - you don't know if it was created by a conscious entity or came about by a process. The former might have a purpose in doing so - the latter doesn't necessarily have any purpose, it's just the result of the process.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[thenexttodie]

Greetings,

If you know someone buried them there, then it makes sense that there must have been a purpose for their doing so. If you don't know they were buried, how can you say there's a "purpose" to there being there?

That's a great point.

The same applies to the universe - you don't know if it was created by a conscious entity or came about by a process. The former might have a purpose in doing so - the latter doesn't necessarily have any purpose, it's just the result of the process.

Kindest regards,

James

Since you don't really know me, when you tell me that I don't know something, it must be because you believe I can't know something? Is this correct?

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Greetings,

If you know someone buried them there, then it makes sense that there must have been a purpose for their doing so. If you don't know they were buried, how can you say there's a "purpose" to there being there?

That's a great point.

Thank you.

The same applies to the universe - you don't know if it was created by a conscious entity or came about by a process. The former might have a purpose in doing so - the latter doesn't necessarily have any purpose, it's just the result of the process.

Kindest regards,

James

Since you don't really know me, when you tell me that I don't know something, it must be because you believe I can't know something? Is this correct?

It depends on what you're claiming to "know".

If it's something for which you have definite knowledge, then it's possible for you to know; however, if you're claiming to "know" something for which you don't/can't have definite knowledge, then you can't claim to know.

In the latter case, you "believe" - perhaps very strongly - but that is not to "know", no matter how strongly you believe something to be the case.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[thenexttodie]

It depends on what you're claiming to "know".

If it's something for which you have definite knowledge, then it's possible for you to know; however, if you're claiming to "know" something for which you don't/can't have definite knowledge, then you can't claim to know.

In the latter case, you "believe" - perhaps very strongly - but that is not to "know", no matter how strongly you believe something to be the case.

Kindest regards,

James

So you don't believe anyone can know if God exists?

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

It depends on what you're claiming to "know".

If it's something for which you have definite knowledge, then it's possible for you to know; however, if you're claiming to "know" something for which you don't/can't have definite knowledge, then you can't claim to know.

In the latter case, you "believe" - perhaps very strongly - but that is not to "know", no matter how strongly you believe something to be the case.

Kindest regards,

James

So you don't believe anyone can know if God exists?

No, I don't - it's not possible to know this side of death, and even then only if there's life after death: if there isn't, then we can't know either way.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[thenexttodie]

So you don't believe anyone can know if God exists?

No, I don't - it's not possible to know this side of death, and even then only if there's life after death: if there isn't, then we can't know either way.

Kindest regards,

James

And has this sentiment ever been proven true or even useful?

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

So you don't believe anyone can know if God exists?

No, I don't - it's not possible to know this side of death, and even then only if there's life after death: if there isn't, then we can't know either way.

Kindest regards,

James

And has this sentiment ever been proven true or even useful?

"Sentiment"?

It's a fact.

What is a "sentiment" is the belief that a creator-entity exists since it's unprovable this side of death, and - as I said earlier - only if there's life-after-death would those who die know.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[thenexttodie]

So you don't believe anyone can know if God exists?

No, I don't - it's not possible to know this side of death, and even then only if there's life after death: if there isn't, then we can't know either way.

Kindest regards,

James

And has this sentiment ever been proven true or even useful?

"Sentiment"?

It's a fact.

Noooo that is not fact Dragon Glas, I realize that if you wanted to you could argue that it's impossible to know basically anything, after all, you might be completely insane. But that wouldn't be a very useful sentiment now, would it?

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Noooo that is not fact Dragon Glas, I realize that if you wanted to you could argue that it's impossible to know basically anything, after all, you might be completely insane. But that wouldn't be a very useful sentiment now, would it?

You can't prove the existence of a supernatural creator-entity.

That means that you can't know that a supernatural creator-entity exists.

[Except after death and only then if there's life-after-death.]

Kindest regards,

James

 

[thenexttodie]

You can't prove the existence of a supernatural creator-entity.

Can you prove my great great grandfather existed?

 

[Prolescum]

Unless you are a partially sentient robot or a very articulate dog, the fact that you yourself exist (as evidenced by your posts) speaks to the extreme likelihood of your great great grandfather existing.

 

[thenexttodie]

Unless you are a partially sentient robot or a very articulate dog, the fact that you yourself exist (as evidenced by your posts) speaks to the extreme likelihood of your great great grandfather existing.

So your answer is no.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Unless you are a partially sentient robot or a very articulate dog, the fact that you yourself exist (as evidenced by your posts) speaks to the extreme likelihood of your great great grandfather existing.

So your answer is no.

His answer clearly indicates that since you exist, your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and great great grandparents - including you great great grandfather - must have existed.

Proving it would be just a matter of gathering information on births, deaths, marriages, grave-sites, etc, for the relevant family members.

More to the point, however, is the fact that you cannot provide any evidence for a supernatural creator-entity.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[thenexttodie]

His answer clearly indicates that since you exist, your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and great great grandparents - including you great great grandfather - must have existed.

So the answer is no.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

His answer clearly indicates that since you exist, your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and great great grandparents - including you great great grandfather - must have existed.

So the answer is no.

No to a supernatural entity.

Yes to a human being.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[thenexttodie]

I see...

Anyway HWIN's entire blog entry is just laughable. Typical childish "There is no God and I HATE HIM!" nonsense. There is no meat in it. He doesn't justify any of his claims.

 

[ldmitruk]

I see...

Anyway HWIN's entire blog entry is just laughable. Typical childish "There is no God and I HATE HIM!" nonsense. There is no meat in it. He doesn't justify any of his claims.

The blog says nothing about hating god. Your response is a typical childish theist reaction to atheism. The blog does a good job of explaining the fallacies of the fine tuning argument in short read.

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

The blog says nothing about hating god. Your response is a typical childish theist reaction to atheism. The blog does a good job of explaining the fallacies of the fine tuning argument in short read.

Thanks you.

Edit: fixed quote.

 

[thenexttodie]

Simply because [the fine tuning] would be different does not mean that life or a universe could not exist.

Yes, it does! It means exactly that! You don't even know what you are talking about!

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Simply because [the fine tuning] would be different does not mean that life or a universe could not exist.

Yes, it does! It means exactly that! You don't even know what you are talking about!

On the contrary, it is you who doesn't know what you're talking about.

The late Victor Stenger wrote about this common misunderstanding of the fine-tuning argument. Apart from his book on the subject, his last book also covered this - Hemant Mehta gives an excerpt on his site relevant to this.

Kindest regards,

James