The day The Young Turks became uncool

[Welshidiot]

@Giliell

I tend to agree with what you say, especially this part:

I'm sick and tired of people constantly pushing their prudery onto other people.

When I think back to my childhood in the UK it seems that there was a less overt sexuality, and sexualisation than there is now, but conversely there wasn't so much of a taboo about breast feeding in public, or naked children, etc.
I wonder if there's a correlation.

IMO nudity, breast feeding, and various other natural human states do not have a sexual element per se, and that any sexual connotation is largely contextual.
It is the contextual nature of these issues that renders it impossible to find absolute solutions to the problems that arise from them, IMO. Rather, they leave us in the position of conducting a constant exercise in exercising our judgement.

Sorry if that sounds pompous, my use of language is actually the result of struggling to find the right words.

 

[DepricatedZero]

The question that comes to my mind is as counter to some of the things Ana says:

She asks "Why do we need to teach little girls about how important breast feeding is?" I think they're missing the point of the toy, by a mile. It's not about teaching the importance of breast feeding, even if some toy rep says that's their intent. Little girls like to play pretend with dolls, I suppose because it makes them feel more grown up. This has always been the theme that I was aware of in girls toys. When I was growing up, boys liked dinosaurs with laser beams, and girls liked dolls that cried when you didn't hold them. Now, I have an aunt who is severely mentally handicapped, and I help take care of her, and I buy her dolls because it lets her feel more adult (she has the mental capacity of a 6 year old, though she's in her 40s). She won't have a kid, she won't really breastfeed, and she doesn't comprehend the implications of it. Still, she sees my sister-in-law breast feed and wants to imitate that because that's something mommies do. It's about playing pretend mommy.

It isn't designed to be sexual, and any sexuality involved is strictly out of context.

So back to what I was originally going to say. Considering the above as the onus behind providing such a toy, and ignoring the above as onus to ask questions about dolls:

Why is it ok to teach 6 year old girls how to prepare for raising a baby?


Additionally: I have nipples, Greg, can you milk me?

 

[Giliell]

Why is it ok to teach 6 year old girls how to prepare for raising a baby?

Thing is, you don't have to teach them.
When children gain some autonoma, independence and self-awareness they also start to develop empathy and start caring for others, imitating the adults. Believe me, watch a toddler holding a glass of water to the mouth of a toy hippo and making drinking noises is uber-cute. They (both boys and girls) act with their toys the way their parents act with them: they bring them to bed, they feed them, they change their diapers. It's pretty natural, the problem I see is that they're then conditioned to behave according to their sex. The boys don't get dolls, the girls don't get toy cars :evil:

 

[Case]

Why is it ok to teach 6 year old girls how to prepare for raising a baby?

Thing is, you don't have to teach them.
When children gain some autonoma, independence and self-awareness they also start to develop empathy and start caring for others, imitating the adults. Believe me, watch a toddler holding a glass of water to the mouth of a toy hippo and making drinking noises is uber-cute. They (both boys and girls) act with their toys the way their parents act with them: they bring them to bed, they feed them, they change their diapers. It's pretty natural, the problem I see is that they're then conditioned to behave according to their sex. The boys don't get dolls, the girls don't get toy cars :evil:

Well, on the other hand, in a society that places such great emphasis on gender roles, children adapting to the social environment that way is usually a good thing.
That's not to say children always did this - I for one never cared much about what's considered appropriate for boys/girls. You do need parents who allow for that, though, which my parents are. At some point I had a doll, though I don't know anymore how I played with it. I do know I played together with my sister, so there's that, too, interaction.
It's also not to say that (gender) stereotyping effects were adaptive per se, but that's rather obvious.

 

[DepricatedZero]

Why is it ok to teach 6 year old girls how to prepare for raising a baby?

Thing is, you don't have to teach them.
When children gain some autonoma, independence and self-awareness they also start to develop empathy and start caring for others, imitating the adults. Believe me, watch a toddler holding a glass of water to the mouth of a toy hippo and making drinking noises is uber-cute. They (both boys and girls) act with their toys the way their parents act with them: they bring them to bed, they feed them, they change their diapers. It's pretty natural, the problem I see is that they're then conditioned to behave according to their sex. The boys don't get dolls, the girls don't get toy cars :evil:

I fear you may have missed my point.

I meant to illustrate that we don't give them dolls in order to teach them about the importance of preparing for raising a baby. The question was meant to highlight its own absurdity. We give it to them because they enjoy playing the role. The toy in question is in that same vein - not meant to teach, just to play. I can make it sound disgusting by assuming the intent is to teach, too, but everyone else should just roll their eyes at the question I posed. What you said is pretty much spot on, I think.

 

[Hedley]

Why is it ok to teach 6 year old girls how to prepare for raising a baby?

Thing is, you don't have to teach them.
When children gain some autonoma, independence and self-awareness they also start to develop empathy and start caring for others, imitating the adults. Believe me, watch a toddler holding a glass of water to the mouth of a toy hippo and making drinking noises is uber-cute. They (both boys and girls) act with their toys the way their parents act with them: they bring them to bed, they feed them, they change their diapers. It's pretty natural, the problem I see is that they're then conditioned to behave according to their sex. The boys don't get dolls, the girls don't get toy cars :evil:

Well, human sex have at least 4 stages: genetic sex, primary sex characteristics (genitals), gender roles and secundary sexual characteristics. Cis-sexuals humans show an agreement between all stages, transexuals do not. All of them are decided for the kid. Society (represented by the family) decides which role is the most appropiate accordingly to the primary sex with few exceptions.

In apes, females are weaker than males; therefore raising kids was decided to be a female role and hunting (or outdoors activities) are masculine ones. The clothes and toys are given by the parents to reinforce their role.

The decision to play with the toy IS GIVEN by their parent, not the kid. However, I consider that such toy is something natural and promoting breastfeeding render to the well-being of the kid.

However, consider this:
1-All kids want to be adults
2-Having breast is a sign of womanhood.
3-Increasing breastfeeding render to healtier babies.
4-However, among the apes, humans have the largest volume of breast mass compared to the rest of the body (the same happens with the brain and the penis), and it is considered a sexual symbol.

In my view, the main problem the sex-o-phobia make mess, and the lack of exposure to information makes them to look for terrible decisions.