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The Atheist Strongman

Mapp

New Member
arg-fallbackName="Mapp"/>
One of the greatest tropes I find myself running up against when arguing with theists is their belief in the Bad Atheist. This came up in a debate with a theist called IMPhoenix1. IM was insistent that atheism was a homosexual conspiracy, and, after a verbal smack-down he retreated in anger none the wiser. No information I cited could pierce the vale, because the Bad Atheist trope is not only useful to evangelicals, it's vital. The Bad Atheist works as a stand-in for all atheists, replacing the various flavors and forms of atheism from the most indecisive agnosticism to the most ardent PEARList in one brush. Here are the characteristics of the Bad Atheist:

1. The Bad Atheist secretly believes in God, but pretends not
This usually is accompanied with one of three boilerplate explanations:
a. The Bad Atheist is a homosexual or libertine who wishes to pursue their sexual appetites without guilt as illustrated by this quote from IMPhoenix1: "Ah You are indeed a homosexual! Judging from your writing. You speak too much. Homosexual Atheists are very self delusion and very self denial of the truth that they insistently deny that there's no Creator though it's a fact and well established that THERE IS."
b. The Bad Atheist is overtly or covertly a Satanist who wishes to promote a Godless world-view as a stand in for devil worship.
c. The Bad Atheist once had a terrible experience in Church, or simply does not have the mental capacity to accept a personal loss without blaming God for it.

2. The Bad Atheist assumes intellectual trappings to mask their insecurities

3. The Bad Atheist is actively seeking to destroy moral culture and society

4. The Bad Atheist is aware of morals, and aware that morality comes from God. He/She either fools himself/herself and follows God's morals, actively seeks to destroy morality because it is God's, or lives like a libertine.

5. The Bad Atheist secretly hates plurality, and democracy, despite the benefits he/she gleans from it, prefering to establish an atheistic totalitarian technocracy ruled by genocidal scientists.

As you can see, the Bad Atheist is a pretty Bad Person. This model is almost unassailable in the minds of many theists, especially evangelical theists. There is no amount of evidence you can provide that can not be brushed away under one of these. Dawkins? He falls under #2. Hitchens? #3, and so on. The typical response of most atheists is to derisively attack this point of view, deserving as it is, like all bigoted points of view of ridicule and condemnation. However, the Bad Atheist trope is rooted in something much deeper, I've begun to discover, a deep fear springing from cognitive dissonance about the theistic mindset.

Many modern evangelicals view of Christianity has been so twisted out of proportion that likely neither Jesus nor Paul would recognize it. God is infinitely good, yet infinitely inflexible. No amount of good works, moral action, or right living can save you in this God's eye. The only thing that can save you is speaking the magic words, falling to your knees and believing. In the ultimate pollution of John 14:6, there is simply no other road to explanation than proclaiming Christ as your savior. It surpasses mere ritual or epiphany almost to the point of magic spell. This is a message repeated ad nauseum in any Jack Chick tract, in the Left Behind Series, in any show on the Christian Broadcast Network. This mindset leads to a point of view that is not only dismissive of good acts and righteousness but actually contemptuous of them. After all, these acts, without connection to Christian salvation are worse than worthless, they distract from the only way to salvation.

This presents a deeply disturbing image of God. A God unconcerned with justice, mercy or righteous acts outside of submission. It must create a powerful cognitive dissonance, I believe, in the minds of many evangelicals. How can God be all-loving, yet still send good people to hell who don't believe? Thus, enter the Bad Atheist, a way to make those 'good people' into very, very Bad People. The Bad Atheist makes it easy to see why all atheists, and non-believers deserve eternal hell. After all, they know the truth, but actively perpetuate a lie, and by doing so, deny others salvation. Dawkins' actions are thus infinitely worse than Judas'. Like the devil, he and others are working to damn souls whom they secretly know could be going to heaven. What could be worse than that?

Perhaps, rather than outright condemning their foolishness, we need to start working within the premise, exposing them to their own dissonance in the most direct way possible. Has anyone had any success in doing this?
 
arg-fallbackName="Gnomesmusher"/>
It's always been the tactic of these fundies to paint anyone who doesnt believe what they believe as the enemy, as being evil to justify their own actions even if those actions are morally repulsive and illogical. Theists who say the things that this IM guy says do sort of bring out the "bad atheist" in me in where I feel like punching the guy in the nose. But that feeling doesn't last long as soon as I remind myself that these idiots are doing this because they're desperate and stupid and that their superstitious beliefs are slowly dying out.

Exposing their own dissonance to them doesn't really do much though, they're too heavily steeped in denial and they've invested too much of themselves believing in their own lies.
 
arg-fallbackName="ImprobableJoe"/>
At some point, maybe we accept that some people are too stupid, intellectually dishonest, and ethically bankrupt to bother engaging with?
 
arg-fallbackName="borrofburi"/>
Mapp said:
However, the Bad Atheist trope is rooted in something much deeper, I've begun to discover, a deep fear springing from cognitive dissonance about the theistic mindset.

Oh I think it's much simpler than that, jesus said you are either with us or against us. It's very simple, you are either heavenly christian or satanic devil worshipper, there is no middle ground in the christian mind set.
 
arg-fallbackName="SatanicBunny"/>
ImprobableJoe said:
At some point, maybe we accept that some people are too stupid, intellectually dishonest, and ethically bankrupt to bother engaging with?

Indeed. The most extreme forms of religious fundamentalism are much to mental illnesses: They distort the world view of the people that adhere to them. These sort of fundies - like young earth creationists for example - are not living in this reality. They literally can't handle the truth.

Many believers who are not that deeply indoctrinated can be reasoned with, but that's not the the fundies, who should just be left alone, debating with them is only going to get you angry and not change their views at all.

The only thing we can - and must - do is to see that they don't brainwash their children with the same stuff before the children have the capacity to handle such issues. That's why I think homeschooling for religious reasons should not be allowed, which it isn't here but IIRC in the States many christians homeschool their kids.
 
arg-fallbackName="Sloth"/>
SatanicBunny said:
ImprobableJoe said:
At some point, maybe we accept that some people are too stupid, intellectually dishonest, and ethically bankrupt to bother engaging with?

Indeed. The most extreme forms of religious fundamentalism are much to mental illnesses: They distort the world view of the people that adhere to them. These sort of fundies - like young earth creationists for example - are not living in this reality. They literally can't handle the truth.

Many believers who are not that deeply indoctrinated can be reasoned with, but that's not the the fundies, who should just be left alone, debating with them is only going to get you angry and not change their views at all.

The only thing we can - and must - do is to see that they don't brainwash their children with the same stuff before the children have the capacity to handle such issues. That's why I think homeschooling for religious reasons should not be allowed, which it isn't here but IIRC in the States many christians homeschool their kids.


I agree with your first two paragraphs, not sure about the last one though.

You do realize that a christian can homeschool thier kids without brainwashing them. I have met alot of down-to-earth christians who accept evolution. In fact, I have yet to meet a fundamentalist who homeschools thier kids. All the kids I've known that are homeschooled or were homeschooled are extremely bright individuals. Although, this is only my personal experience, and I am aware that there are people who homeschool their kids for more selfish reasons. I just think you have a skewed view of homeschooling.
 
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