Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights?

[CommonEnlightenment]

These types of stories always seem to get my blood pumping.

I sometimes think that when teaching free speech in a classroom the teacher should also attempt to teach the responsibility associated with using that free speech.

I agree with the sediments of the teacher and really hope that the ACLU comes to his defense. Another stake in the battle between civil rights and civil responsibilities? Always a nice murky topic.

http://www.npr.org/2010/11/16/131360383/teacher-suspended-after-stopping-anti-gay-talk?sc=fb&cc=fp

 

[Giliell]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

Actually, I think the teacher handled the situation badly.
You can't kick somebody out of class for saying "I don't accept gays". That's
-a) really a violation of their first amendment rights
-b) a really bad way of dealing with the issue. He should have halted whatever they were doing and discussed that (because clearly this IS more important than anything else they could have learned that day). He should have told them that he will not accept bullying, name-calling, hate speech or incitement, neither in his classroom nor outside of it . Let the anti-gay student make his case, win the argument against him. Because the way he did it, he fed into the good old christian prosecution myth and didn't do anything to change their minds. Even worse, he's set up a precedent that will now protect anti-gay speech and removed himself from a position where he could have helped more gay kids.

 

[lrkun]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

I like this teacher. Some forget common courtesy now a days.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

This is sadly a common reaction among teachers; believing themselves to be infallible and punishing anyone who even hints at disagreeing with them.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

Good for the teacher. Fuck those bigoted little shits, they are unfit to be in a room with regular folks.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

I agree with Giliell. This is probably the worst way to deal with the situation.
Show up the student - let him dig his own grave. THEN it's a "great, teachable moment".

 

[Gnomesmusher]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

I agree with Giliell too.

Despite the tendency of the Right to vilify educators (see Arthur Willborn) at every turn, I have to say the teacher didn't handle things well. I don't agree with the removal of the confederate flag belt buckle. I know some will argue that it's a symbol of hatred but I really don't see it inciting violence. Also, kicking someone out for "not accepting gays" isn't right either. I understand there's a fine line here, that it could be argued that it's creating an environment for bullying but my opinion is that we should give a lot of freedom to these bigoted assholes so that in return we get to have just as much freedom to tell them that they're bigoted assholes.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

Actually, I think the teacher handled the situation badly.
You can't kick somebody out of class for saying "I don't accept gays". That's
-a) really a violation of their first amendment rights
-b) a really bad way of dealing with the issue. He should have halted whatever they were doing and discussed that (because clearly this IS more important than anything else they could have learned that day). He should have told them that he will not accept bullying, name-calling, hate speech or incitement, neither in his classroom nor outside of it . Let the anti-gay student make his case, win the argument against him. Because the way he did it, he fed into the good old christian prosecution myth and didn't do anything to change their minds. Even worse, he's set up a precedent that will now protect anti-gay speech and removed himself from a position where he could have helped more gay kids.

You say it as though the little shits were calm and rational, and the teacher was out of line. I've been in a class where a kid was trying to stand up for his bigotry, and his words, tone, and body language were all totally inappropriate when dealing with a teacher.

 

[Krazyskooter]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

How the student reacted doesn't matter. The teacher should have handled it better, the student may be a bigoted little shit, but he has the right to say whatever he wants, and have his ass handed to him verbally and intellectually.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

How the student reacted doesn't matter. The teacher should have handled it better, the student may be a bigoted little shit, but he has the right to say whatever he wants, and have his ass handed to him verbally and intellectually.

I don't see how you could possibly think so. Teachers don't have to debate their students, because they are in charge. If a student insists on taking up class time with a debate outside of the class lesson, the teacher has a right to tell them to stop. If they don't, they can leave the class.

Last time I checked, classrooms weren't debates or democracies.

 

[RestrictedAccess]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

I'm glad the school suspended him. It's a shame they didn't do it for longer.

 

[Mapp]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

Sounds like we've got heaping helpings of stupid all around at this school. First you have a bigoted, ignorant student, not all that uncommon. Then you have a teacher who over-reacts to the statement, which while silly is not expressed in a disrespectful way. Rather that use this as a teaching moment, the teacher threw him out of the room in a hissy fit. Then, the school board, goes for the nuclear approach of suspending the teacher rather in a fit of terror, likely driven by a "what if they sue us mentality." Rather than counsel him, taking this as an unreasonable, though isolated example of a teacher letting a student get under his skin, they throw him out, making it a political issue. Is it any wonder our schools are going down the shitter when this kind of carnival happens?

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

I wonder how up in arms the Right would be over the childern's Freedom of Speech if the kid had been sent of the room for saying "I do not believe in your god" - I bet it would be all "rules are rules"

 

[ArthurWilborn]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

I agree with Giliell too.

Despite the tendency of the Right to vilify educators (see Arthur Willborn) at every turn, I have to say the teacher didn't handle things well. I don't agree with the removal of the confederate flag belt buckle. I know some will argue that it's a symbol of hatred but I really don't see it inciting violence. Also, kicking someone out for "not accepting gays" isn't right either. I understand there's a fine line here, that it could be argued that it's creating an environment for bullying but my opinion is that we should give a lot of freedom to these bigoted assholes so that in return we get to have just as much freedom to tell them that they're bigoted assholes.

I work in a school. I know very well what I'm talking about.

 

[Gnomesmusher]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

How the student reacted doesn't matter. The teacher should have handled it better, the student may be a bigoted little shit, but he has the right to say whatever he wants, and have his ass handed to him verbally and intellectually.

I don't see how you could possibly think so. Teachers don't have to debate their students, because they are in charge. If a student insists on taking up class time with a debate outside of the class lesson, the teacher has a right to tell them to stop. If they don't, they can leave the class.

Last time I checked, classrooms weren't debates or democracies.

You do make a really good point here Joe. A teacher can throw students out for disruptions but I still think the teacher could have handled it in a smarter way. Could have just told the little bigot to sit down and shut up. Don't give the little shits any ammo to turn it into a political fiasco. Of course, hindsight and all, blah blah blah.

I work in a school. I know very well what I'm talking about.

And I live in Alaska and can see Russia from here, therefore I know foreign policy.

 

[Giliell]

Re: Teacher Suspended for squleching First Admendment rights

Actually, I think the teacher handled the situation badly.
You can't kick somebody out of class for saying "I don't accept gays". That's
-a) really a violation of their first amendment rights
-b) a really bad way of dealing with the issue. He should have halted whatever they were doing and discussed that (because clearly this IS more important than anything else they could have learned that day). He should have told them that he will not accept bullying, name-calling, hate speech or incitement, neither in his classroom nor outside of it . Let the anti-gay student make his case, win the argument against him. Because the way he did it, he fed into the good old christian prosecution myth and didn't do anything to change their minds. Even worse, he's set up a precedent that will now protect anti-gay speech and removed himself from a position where he could have helped more gay kids.

You say it as though the little shits were calm and rational, and the teacher was out of line. I've been in a class where a kid was trying to stand up for his bigotry, and his words, tone, and body language were all totally inappropriate when dealing with a teacher.

That doesn't comunicate from the article. I can only judge from the information I have in the article which doesn't indicate that the overall behaviour was inappropriate. It just gives his statements.
Now, just leaving the buckle-thing aside, the teacher invited discussion. He was asked one question (What's the difference between the buckle and the shirt?) and chose to reply to it. The kid disagreed with him. There's nothing illegal in disagreeing. The kid wasn't disturbing the teaching either because they were clearly not doing any economics anyway.
So, what were the options the teacher had at that moment?
-stop the discussion and telling ALL kids that this was not the place and time for this discussion and that he would not accep any bullying or hate-speech.
-go on with the discussion
-just silence the little bigot and thereby somewhat making him the victim, which is what he did.
The kid asked a question, why it was inappropriate to say that in class, just like the one before asked why it was appropriate to wear the shirt but not the buckle.
The teacher chose not to answer that question but to kick the kid out.
And that is a situation handled badly.