Sir Paul Callaghan's "unusual experiment"

[WarK]

I've stumbled upon this, rather sad, article

Bastion of science Sir Paul Callaghan is resorting to an experimental intravenous vitamin C treatment and Chinese medicine to fight his terminal cancer.

The treatment is part of what he calls his "unusual experiment". He was diagnosed with aggressive bowel cancer in 2008, which has since spread widely.

"Let me be clear. I do not deviate one step from my trust in evidence-based medicine," Sir Paul said in his blog. However, if there was a potentially effective but unproven drug, "Why would I not try it?" he reasoned. "Am I mad? Probably."

It's hard to judge his actions but to me it's irresponsible. Public figures, especially people who could be seen by the general public as an authority in matters of science, should be aware of kind of influence their actions may have.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I don't know... well, I wish he wasn't making this public, but I can't blame him for trying whatever since he's pretty much got no other options at all.

 

[Case]

Well, since spontaneous recovery is kind of unlikely in the case of terminal cancer, he's going to die and add +1n to the pool of people who tried weird stuff and died anyway. If it worked, it would provide glorious N=1 evidence of this treatment's effectiveness.

Don't see why that would be a problem. "He's a public figure, he should die miserably like a good martyr instead of trying every weird shit that's out there to try to survive" sounds quite dumb, to be honest.

 

[WarK]

Don't see why that would be a problem. "He's a public figure, he should die miserably like a good martyr instead of trying every weird shit that's out there to try to survive" sounds quite dumb, to be honest.

That's not what I meant :?

My concern is that people will think there's some validity to this treatment and in pseudo-science in general.
That's not how you carry out drug testing. There's a proper method of doing this that doesn't give people false hope and doesn't misguide them.

 

[Case]

He isn't responsible for what gullible people think. Also, he isn't "testing a drug" in a scientific sense, he's fucking desperate.
Whether his decision to make this public was a good idea is debatable, but to do whatever crosses his mind... as long as he isn't directly harming anyone, he can do whatever he wants, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[WarK]

He isn't responsible for what gullible people think.

People are gullible. Other people can either exploit it, be indifferent or try and educate the gullible. I know in this instance he isn't educating. Although he seems like a person who's done a fair share of educating in his life.

Also, he isn't "testing a drug" in a scientific sense, he's fucking desperate.

That's why I started with saying it was hard to judge his actions. I certainly don't know what I'd do if I was in his situation.

Whether his decision to make this public was a good idea is debatable, but to do whatever crosses his mind... as long as he isn't directly harming anyone, he can do whatever he wants, as far as I'm concerned.

It is debatable, and I guess that's what we're doing. He isn't directly harming anyone but indirectly? It's a tough call. On one hand you have the gullible people, who should do some research before they try alternative medicine. On the other hand, those people are probably desperate themselves. They don't necessarily want to hear about how properly to test drugs and about scientific method, they just want to live and be with their loved ones. I don't think indulging in alternative medicine is the way to achieve this though. In my opinion a person who's spend their lives working for science should be aware of the impact their actions may have on the gullible.

 

[Welshidiot]

@WarK

Do you think he should stick with conventional medicine that isn't working, and wait to die?

Or do you think he should try the alternative methods, but deny doing so?

Those are the two options the guy has, so what would you have him do?

 

[WarK]

@WarK

Do you think he should stick with conventional medicine that isn't working, and wait to die?

Or do you think he should try the alternative methods, but deny doing so?

Those are the two options the guy has, so what would you have him do?

Who am I to tell him what to do? It's hard to talk about this not being in his position. My objection is that this whole thing was publicised, perhaps not by him but maybe some journalist who thought it'd make a good headline, and it may encourage some people to use alternative medicine instead of actual medicine.

But we have freedom of speech and freedom to do with our bodies what ever we may wish... as long as it's not smoking weed.
(depending on country)

Perhaps someone with medical background could tell us how are experimental treatments tested in real life.

There's a saying, when alternative medicine works it becomes just medicine.

 

[Squawk]

You'd better believe that if I'm ever facing a terminal illness, with no recourse from modern medicine, I'm going to have a bash at everything I can find that is even remotely plausible.

Huge doses of vitamins, massive water intake, more alcohol than I can shake a stick at. Essentially anything that I can see will have an effect on my physiology will get tried. I won't expect any of it to work, but I'll sure as hell try it. The key point, you try those things as an act of desperation when all else has failed, and you pick things that will have a phsiological effect of some kind.

Who knows, you might stumble across something that does actually work but is, as yet, untested.

 

[Aught3]

My objection is that this whole thing was publicised, perhaps not by him but maybe some journalist who thought it'd make a good headline, and it may encourage some people to use alternative medicine instead of actual medicine.

I agree WarK. I also have an objection to the use of 'experiment' and 'experimental...treatment' in the article. These things that he trying are not experimental treatments in the sense of currently being tested. If there was a unapproved but promising cancer drug available I would have no objection to him taking it and the article as written. However, these aren't experimental treatments they are all disproved or implausible and not even treatments. Even worse some of the stuff he is taking can actually be harmful vitamin C on his kidneys and some traditional herbal potions are known to interfere with cancer medicines. Probably nothing wrong with drinking vegetable juice though.

It's hard to say what I would do in a similar situation but I'd like to think I would die with a little bit of dignity not clutching at any quack remedy in order to stave off the inevitable.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Why do I have this vague feeling in the back of my mind that the man just may be trying to trigger a massive test of the Placebo effect upon stupid/desperate people (not to say that they are interchangeable) who just happen to have cancer in order to cause remission?

And if this saves a small number of lives out there - would it be wise to release this fact?

 

[gobro]

As you will see from this article Sir Paul is a man of integrity.

The article covers the reults, which may surprise some of you.
It is nice to see some people still have real values.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/6286401/Vitamin-therapy-fails-to-deliver-for-Sir-Paul

My first post here. This forum looks quite interesting.
Cheers

 

[WarK]

As you will see from this article Sir Paul is a man of integrity.

The article covers the reults, which may surprise some of you.
It is nice to see some people still have real values.

Yeah, I wish more people had this approach, although it must be very hard when you're faced with such an illness.

I hope people who consider this kind of treatments will thing twice before using them.

My first post here. This forum looks quite interesting.
Cheers

Welcome and thanks for the link