Saying here what I can't there

[Eidolon]

I have a couple fundie friends on facebook (though *a couple* is a conservative estimate). And, one today made a post which read:

"I wonder who names all the aborted babies when they get to heaven?"

And as usual, he had several responses which were just the typical prolife talk of the average midwest American bible thumpers.

Now I wanted to post a response, but it would be frankly a slap to face to them if I did, and since they are friends, I don't want to be an ass. So I decided to post it here and get it out of my system.

To his posting I wanted to respond:

"I would guess the same guy who names all the miscarried and ectopic ones. Though technically they would go to hell because god blessed them with original sin."

What bothers me is that, my friends can and will post left and right Jesus this, God that, I'll pray for you, and so on. But, I don't post anything stating something atheistic due to the fact that if I did, they would no longer talk to me, and even though I think their beliefs are utter crap, I still value their friendships. Its a bit of a double standard that I have to read their crap, but I can't post my own for fear of alienating them. But I guess thats what this place is for!

 

[nemesiss]

I have a couple fundie friends on facebook (though *a couple* is a conservative estimate). And, one today made a post which read:

"I wonder who names all the aborted babies when they get to heaven?"

And as usual, he had several responses which were just the typical prolife talk of the average midwest American bible thumpers.

Now I wanted to post a response, but it would be frankly a slap to face to them if I did, and since they are friends, I don't want to be an ass. So I decided to post it here and get it out of my system.

To his posting I wanted to respond:

"I would guess the same guy who names all the miscarried and ectopic ones. Though technically they would go to hell because god blessed them with original sin."

What bothers me is that, my friends can and will post left and right Jesus this, God that, I'll pray for you, and so on. But, I don't post anything stating something atheistic due to the fact that if I did, they would no longer talk to me, and even though I think their beliefs are utter crap, I still value their friendships. Its a bit of a double standard that I have to read their crap, but I can't post my own for fear of alienating them. But I guess thats what this place is for!

actually this is more for the relion section, but it is a good question.
What you could do is reply with questions, such as; "why do you think babies will go to heaven? shouldn't they go to hell for being full of sin? "
the response should be interesting enough.

That way you can be friends a bit longer, but i would advise to do something about it before it get out of hand.
with all the questioning they might suspect you are indeed an atheist, but the blow will not be that hard.

if you have trouble with how to put hese questions, you can always ask us

 

[Aught3]

Could you ask them something about why they think these babies would go to heaven? Say that you are confused and thought that they went to hell or limbo or whatever.

Huh, snap.

 

[xman]

What bothers me is that, my friends can and will post left and right Jesus this, God that, I'll pray for you, and so on. But, I don't post anything stating something atheistic due to the fact that if I did, they would no longer talk to me, and even though I think their beliefs are utter crap, I still value their friendships. Its a bit of a double standard that I have to read their crap, but I can't post my own for fear of alienating them. But I guess thats what this place is for!

This is exactly why I stand up, speak out and get counted. You don't have to respond to his comment, but that doesn't stop you form making your own comments and posting links to wonders of science, nature and human frailty. Try this one:

 

[Giliell]

If they stop being your friends if they find out you're an atheist and don't share their views, they are not friends.
One of my best friends and I disagree about more or less everything (although not on the issue of god), but we still respect each other, love to debate, shared a flat and she's godmother to my daughter.
That's what friednship means, or, like an Austrian author once put it:
Your best friend is somebody you actually can't stand.

 

[borrofburi]

I lost the vast majority of my religious friends... I suppose that's in part because prior to "deconversion" I met most of my "friends" through an on-campus religious group, and so all we had in common was "god" and after I decided I would hold god to the same standards of evidence I hold everything else to, we no longer had anything in common.

 

[Giliell]

I lost the vast majority of my religious friends... I suppose that's in part because prior to "deconversion" I met most of my "friends" through an on-campus religious group, and so all we had in common was "god" and after I decided I would hold god to the same standards of evidence I hold everything else to, we no longer had anything in common.

I always forget that I live in a less religious country where people actually pay more attention to how people are than what they believe in.

 

[borrofburi]

I lost the vast majority of my religious friends... I suppose that's in part because prior to "deconversion" I met most of my "friends" through an on-campus religious group, and so all we had in common was "god" and after I decided I would hold god to the same standards of evidence I hold everything else to, we no longer had anything in common.

I always forget that I live in a less religous country where people actually pay more attention to how people are than what they believe in.

Eh, that's not necessarily a fair criticism; my specific problem was rarely malice or intolerance, and was generally a result of simply having nothing in common anymore. It's like being friends with someone on a sports team, and then one day deciding you don't really care for the sport anymore; you would lose a lot of those friends, but not because they're malicious or hate you or anything like that, just because there's no point in hanging out anymore.

 

[DrunkCat]

Your best friend is somebody you actually can't stand.

If that's true, me and my first ex are the greatest friends in the world. That sucks.

But yeah, Giliell is right. Fuck them.

 

[Giliell]

Eh, that's not necessarily a fair criticism; my specific problem was rarely malice or intolerance, and was generally a result of simply having nothing in common anymore. It's like being friends with someone on a sports team, and then one day deciding you don't really care for the sport anymore; you would lose a lot of those friends, but not because they're malicious or hate you or anything like that, just because there's no point in hanging out anymore.

Well, that wasn't meant so much as criticism but more as an impression I got from conversing with people from the states: Religion matters way more in everyday life and questions like friendship or partnership than around here.

@DrunkCat
he meant it more along the lines that your best friend is somebody whose flaws and weaknesses you know perfectly, in contrast to an aquaintance where you'll most likely only see the good sides of.

 

[stratos]

hmmm, interesting. I think it's a trick questions, those babies aren't going to heaven, original sin and all that, they haven't accepted jesus yet or been baptised. I Don't think satan really cares if they have names or not.

-edit-
Lol I fail at reading you already mentioned this.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

I would go with, "the same guy who names all the sperm that don't get to live"

 

[Durakken]

I thought babies exploded on contact with ether... the more you know!

 

[JacobEvans]

I don't really care much if it ruins a 'friendship' or two because they are too narrow minded to be friends with someone they disagree with.

 

[lonelocust]

FYI, the concept of original sin isn't universally (I want to say "widely", but I'm not actually sure on that) accepted by evangelical protestants. There are protestants that adhere to it, but there's a common easier-to-swallow evangelical outlook which places babies and children as innocent until they have understanding in order to sin. A lot go further and say that until someone is capable of understanding the ask-Jesus-into-your-heart salvation scheme, they are going straight to heaven. The term I commonly heard was "age of accountability". Your friends might hold to this idea. My point being, it might well not be thought-provoking to ask them whether fetus souls are going to heaven.

Now of course that always leads to the fun thought that if embryo souls go right to heaven, and people that actually live have chance of being capable of understanding evangelical salvation and rejecting it, it's better to be aborted because then you just go straight to heaven and never risk hell. It seems on casual observation by me that the babies go to heaven thing is less commonly said on the internet, I'm guessing due to many people pointing out this logical conclusion, but that could be merely my observation.

 

[Icefire9atla]

I'll say this about this topic.

The first time I found out one of my friends was an atheist was so liberating. Seriously, we don't see each other that much, but when we do, we think so alike. I'm just glad that I know a few people who understand this part of me.

My advice, look for local freethinking groups (You might even see a billboard for one, at the rate that they're spreading!), you could meet a lot of likeminded people to talk with.

 

[Nogre]

If they bring up religion, yet object to you expressing what you believe, then they're being blatent hipocrits. I always go with the policy of not hiding anything about myself (being a gay, vegetarian atheist), but not parading it about unecessarily. The most legitimate criticism (which really isn't legitimate, but is still influencial among moderates) is the objection to people making one aspect of themselves a political statement that defines their whole being. For example, intentionally becoming "the gay kid" or "that atheist" to make a political statement. If you only bring it up when others do, any objection to it is blatent bigotry.

Other than that, go with what Gliell has already stated. If you have to keep parts of who you are secret, they're not real friends and aren't worth keeping the secret to keep.

 

[borrofburi]

If they bring up religion, yet object to you expressing what you believe, then they're being blatent hipocrits.

Well, this isn't anything new (and I don't blame them personally for it, for it's simply the rules their religion is used to after the middle ages and the inquisition).

If you only bring it up when others do, any objection to it is blatent bigotry.

Depends on how you define "bigotry". I've known many who would simply be seriously concerned about you, for they believe literally in hell and would be very worried about your eternal damnation. They personally aren't bigoted, just their religion is; they're perfectly good people, just deceived, and brain washed from such an early age they realistically never had a chance.

Other than that, go with what Gliell has already stated. If you have to keep parts of who you are secret, they're not real friends and aren't worth keeping the secret to keep.

Spoken like someone who's always had friends; friendships that are a lie can be better than none at all.

 

[Tylzen]

I got friends who are in all camps.
But since I am in Denmark the majority of my friends are at best agnostic.
Many of them I know are atheists.

But I also got friends who are religious, or atleast they have faith, and hope there is a God. So almost borderline agnostic.
We have just agreed to disagree since they are firm that science can't explain all.
Like talking to a deaf person.
So instead I tend to ignore the topic with those people.

But sometimes a healthy debate is always fun.

 

[Doc.]

same. Atheists and Theists here do not "attack" each-other all the time and don't really speak of that that much. Christians are far less aggressive than in USA or UK.

a guy whom i would call "my best friend" is a Christian and he's OK with me being non-religious.