Satan, a big, red, herring

[irmerk]

It seems to me, such as practically any other major part of the Bible or Christianity, Satan contradicts their idea of God. If nothing exists outside of God, then God made and or controls Satan. Every despicable act Satan performs is directly from God. Nothing exists outside of God, yet there is evil, so God created evil; does this not make him an evil God? Saying anything is outside of God or performs outside or against the will of God is to refute his currently believed existence.

Besides, why would an all loving God give you free will, still know what you will do (which means there is no free will), and punishes you for what he made you do?

I like what Matt Dillahunty said once: Something like, "We're told that there's a good one here (A: God), and an evil one over here (B: Satan). Then we're told this good one created us and loves us infinitely, and the evil one over there is trying to steal our soul... Well what if it's the other way around? What if A is the trickster and B is just sitting back waiting for you to figure it out?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I guess the real answer, when it comes down to it, is that religions are inherently full of shit. Trying to make them fit some logical framework, or to spend too much time on any given instance of full-of-shittiness, is like spending too much time trying to figure out why Megatron transforms from a 30' tall robot into a Walther pistol that shrinks to fit the hand of just about anyone, or can stay the same size and be fired that way. You could speculate about Megatron being mostly hollow, or dumping the excess mass into another dimension, or wonder why he doesn't use the same shrinking power to make his enemies tiny and then crush them. Or, you could skip to the real answer, which is the same as the answer to questions about the Bible:

IT IS ALL MAKE BELIEVE, AND THEREFORE DOESN'T HAVE TO MAKE ANY SENSE... AND IT DOESN'T!

 

[Daealis]

I always enjoy defending satan. He is the most misrepresented character in the bible.

When satan does something harmful for a human in the bible, it is always with the permission of god. Take Job for example: Those kills were made with gods approving nodding. To Jesus he never really did anything, they just had a nice chat. He is just studying the human mind from a neutral viewpoint, testing the claims god makes about us.

All the bad things that are claimed to be the work of the devil, are only third hand accounts(in a tome of third hand accounts). They are told by the prophets and followers of god. Wouldn't you try to make the opposition look bad by spouting lies and slander? Nearly all the stories of what satan did are of situations where a character in the bible tells a story. A story in a story. Do you consider this kind of evidence sufficient enough to judge a person?

Although, we can also make a case for the devil even if he is the original sinner, father of all sin.
-The original downfall of Adam& Eve. So the devil gave us knowledge of good and bad. So it's the devil who gave us morals. I'd say that is one for the devil.
-So he gave us sin as well. And sex outside of marriage(according to some) is sinning, as is the indulgence in all sorts of other forms of hedonism and materialism. I kinda like those things. I find them good. I'll give that one to satan as well.
-Judas is considered to have been under the influence of satan. Well, if Iscariot hadn't betrayed Jesus, he would've propably lived to die of old age and not do the whole "freeing you from sins" thing. So isn't the devil really the one to be thanked for the eternal life christians claim to have in heaven?

So if you don't account the fact in christianity that god made it all, the devil is really the guy who gave people pretty much everything we enjoy in life. If you take the "goddidit" into consideration, then god is simply doing most of his deeds through evil.

Kinda like the TAA's "so jesus could've been a homosexual"-reasoning, it's only good for pissing christians off, not really a proper argument either way

 

[Synystyr]

Here is someone claiming to understand satan and the Jesus and all that nonsense... Looks long, but you have to remember the lengths these people will go to to explain something ridiculous..

Satan isn't God's Opposite, He's Our Nemesis

To say that Satan is God's opposite equal is a bit ridiculous. It would mean that he has the power to undo whatever God can do. He can't. It would mean that he would have a significant case and argument and actually force conflict within the maker himself... but he can't. This was proved through Job.

For the record, We have dominion over Him. We don't have the power, per se, but we do have the authority. Make no mistake... He hates us. Why? Because he was once next to God, booted, and when we were created we were just a little lower than the angels but still above him.

How the Satan/Jesus even come about? Jesus and Lucifer were around before mankind was conceived. What was going on is a mystery but here's the summary:

Satan wanted to achieve godlike status.
Jesus realized that he could achieve godlike status.

Satan wanted to do it bigger and better and actually tried to formulate a conspiracy resulting in the corruption of a lot of angels.
Jesus on the other hand (his earth name) is summarized here, "Who, being in the form of God (we were made in God's image so the godlike form is one better - this doesn't imply that Jesus was God, just in the same body type), thought it not robbery (as Lucifer planned) to be EQUAL with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion (same body type) of man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." - Phil 2:6

Jesus found that the only way to be even close to God was by total surrender of his own identity. As long as he was himself, meaning some having pride in his position, then he was selfish and unable to ever be completely submissive/surrender. So he gave it up. That's once.

Though that's great in the heaven sense, we were a little lower than the angels. So he had to prove that he could be the lowest of all of us as well. Why? because the only way to prove that you don't have any attachment to your former glory, title, whatever, is to subject you to the people that were once beneath you. Mankind. When he accomplished that. He still wasn't done. He had to go as far out as possible... death... Total disconnection from God PERIOD. This kind of death is greater than what we dub 'death'. Which should make it a bigger deal to Christians. This caused him to ask about being fosaken.

This put him even further away from his identity than Lucifer. As Lucifer still hangs on to who he once was, fueling his hatred and arrogance over us all seeking to destroy us, God's work, and therefore undermining God's flawless system altogether. In essense to prove that he is indeed greater. But in the end, Lucifer is still unable to make progress. He too is bound by what God says will be the outcome and his powerlessness is never been more clear.

Christ by denying his title in both lives and total separation all the while never acting out on his own, but totally surrendering to whatever happened to Him meant that he actually was capable of denying his who he thought he was and therfore entrusting him to purely and judiciously take care of God's business as God would. Making him EQUAL.

How equal? Equal in the sense that Jesus would actually NEVER do anything, reason anyway, or be any different, than what God himself had already done on all levels for mankind and universally. By being THAT DEEP of a servant is to give THAT HIGH of a praise because his servitude is more than a billion percent worship. It doesn't get any more solid than that.

Satan was highly trusted and look at the pride that consumed him. He took the loyalty of others and actually revolted at something that was fine just because he wanted to achieve a higher authority. If people tell you that angels don't have a will... the Bible is a source that begs to differ. So don't go thinking that it's a just a struggle betwen God and Satan. We were exempt from the whole thing going on before Adam & Eve ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. It caused us to reason and manipulate things for out advantage similar to Satan's plans resulting is us being 'sat out' from the greater things of God, not at all as he intended and therefore requiring some sort of ultimate solution to be necessary.

So where faiths don't understand the claim of the Bible, following the story could lead one to where Christians should understand their faith. Christians are called to be a standard but we don't have to be perfect because we can't be. However, our surrender and gratitude to Christ for this feat according to the Bible, makes our acceptance of Him our own salvation. It also makes our attempts to be like him... cute. Accepted none the less.

The more of a servant you are... the more trusted you can be.

Man I ain't trying to preach. I just have to get that off my chest. It seems like the vision gets warped by the world at times. People taking things out of context, etc.... I just have to do what I can to not lose sight of it. I'm not the best person in the world. If I were, then I wouldn't need Christ's assurance/insurance policy.

I accept the fact that I do and others don't.

 

[Weirdtopia]

If you beleive in a devil and believe in a god then wouldn't that not be a monotheism that would be dualistic theism.