Religion in schools

[Irokesengranate]

Hi everyone,

First of all and to avoid confusion: I,´m an atheist and do not for a second believe in any religion that I,´m currently aware of.

And of course I,´m against indoctrinating children by teaching religion as truth in schools. But I think it IS important that children learn about religions in school, learn, what stories they tell, which statements they make. Because it is in fact possible to have religion as a subject in school without indoctrinating.

I,´m on a Danish school in the very north of Germany. I do not know, how religion is handled on regular German schools, but the Danish ones follow a (IMO) very interesting concept, even though I,´m not entirely sure, if there was ever a concious decision about it.
In the very first years of school, Danish students will not learn a lot about Adam and Eve, Moses, Jesus etc., but about Odin, Thor, Freya and Heimdall, in short: The Norse mythology. This is because most Danes are proud of their history and this religion is a part of that history. Later, of course, students learn a whole lot about christianity, but not exclusively, other religions like Islam are presented too.
But I deem the teaching of the Norse mythology the most important. Not because I think it is true or even desireable (though some of its gods are a lot more awesome than Yaweh). But teaching it has two important effects on children:

1) They get used to the concept that christianity is not the only religion out there, but that there instead are many, often contradicting each other. That way they are less likely to think of (for example their parents,´) religion, that it 'must be right, because it,´s the ONE TRUTH'

2) The faith in Odin, Thor etc. is practically exinct. Some movements exist, certain bands play 'Pagan Metal' with lyrics about the old gods, but it is not a factor in everyday life. This gives children an opportunity to look at a religion as what it really is: A bunch of ridiculous stories and questionable morals. The students can examine it without the emotional component that comes into play when a christian teacher lectures on christianity. Sooner or later, the students themselves come to the conclusion that it is in fact INCORRECT, thereby realizing that religions can be untrue and that other religions in their everyday life might be just as incorrect and false.

What I,´m trying to say is, teaching religion in school is not the same thing as indoctrinating children. One can be done without the other.So the next time you hear about religion in school, try to not instantly throw up. Listen what exactly is going on. If it,´s praying in class: Go ahead and be disgusted. But if it,´s teaching of what religion is, calm down. Religion is a part of our society and children need to learn about it.

So much for my opinion, what,´s yours?

 

[Laurens]

I think religious education is important also. It can teach you a lot about different cultures, and hopefully promote tolerance of them. However the thing that my religious education lacked is acknowledgement that there was even such a thing as atheism, I think if you are going to present unbiased religious education, then people need to be aware that there are those who believe in no gods.

To be honest, despite my R.E. lessons at school, I wasn't aware that there was even such a thing as atheism until a few years after school finished. It sounds ridiculous, but being raised in a Christian family, and not being taught of it in school meant that I was literally unaware that there were people who did not believe in any religion.

I think if atheism is to be tolerated and understood, it should be given equal time to any other religion taught in school. Whether the kids accept it is up to them, and of course I would encourage that it be presented in a completely unbiased way along side other religions. But if the aim of R.E is to encourage tolerance of other people's beliefs and cultures, then atheism certainly deserves a mention.

Laurens

 

[godisabullet]

Thought I'd copy and paste my post from the "religion poisons everything" thread.

My son goes to a public school here in Australia. "Religious Studies" is a part of his first year curriculum and as you can imagine its not really "Religious Studies" - you know, kids learning about all the different religions, their history and culture - it's just scripture class re-branded. It is run and taught basically by a group of local religious people that have nothing to do with education apart from this religious class.

I asked my son if he really wanted to be in the class (as I know you can write a note to get your kid out of the class) and he told me that all of his friends were doing it so he didn't want to do the only alternative which was sitting in the library doing extra English and Maths work. Can't say I blame him.


I rang the school to see if they had any other alternatives to my son sitting in the library by himself doing extra class work and the flat answer was.... no.

I guess my point is that they just HAVE to have their finger in every pie and they get around the whole separation of church and state (school) thing by saying that you can opt out.

I have no problem with a religious studies class in school as long as it's based on historical readings and cultural diversity and not on trying to indoctrinate kids.

 

[Aught3]

I agree with the OP. In NZ we get a lot of Maori culture, including the religion, in the classroom. Learning about a religion and a pantheon of gods that no one takes seriously is certainly a good immunisation against Christianity.

 

[SirYeen]

I'd wish my school presented it like that. I'm an Anti-Theist and tbh I'd love to see it reworked. If we want mankind to evolve past religion hiding it is not an option. Studying it the right way is. Nice post mate.

 

[Zac]

Last year I completed a subject at school "Religion and Philosophy".
It was not presented at all as a religion class, as in, it was not indoctrination but simply included learning about multiple religions.
We were able to pick from a handful and I ended up studying Islam and Buddhism. Needless to say no one chose Christianity cause we hear about it enough in our society. It was a pretty interesting way of looking at religions because all it involved was learning about what they believed, and how this affects everyday life and so. There was absolutely no judgement on whether the beliefs were right or wrong, but simply an objective look at schools of thought.
A much healthier way of being exposed to religion I thought, rather than simple condemnation or adoration.

 

[Time Lord]

i personally rekon that it is important to learn about the different religions becuase i live in a mixed cultured race. But i have also know for a fact that primary schools at times emphasise more with the christianity aspects of religion where i live, and example of this occured just the other day my younger brother came home and said that Jesus is the son of God which is not what our religion says, so i rekon that the teachers need to be careful on how they are teaching R.E!

 

[FlyingRainbowPenguin]

I got rather ticked off today with a boy who sits across from me in my Citizenship class, because he said "Athiests don't believe in Christmas and therefore are less giving than Christians." So whatever they are teaching in R.S/R.E at my school they are teaching it very badly indeed.
As for Primary school, I do remember alot about Christianity being shoved down our throats (The vast majority of our school being of Christian faith) and it's been through the constantly being told in assemblys about God, and being told to pray that I've decided against having a religion (Leaving me as an Athiest).
I also believe that Christianity, Islam, and Jewdaism shouldn't be the main three religion's taught in schools (I live in England, I'm not sure about the variations in other countries) Instead I think more religions from around the world should be brought into view, rather than picking the religion's which gain majority votes on consensus forms.
I completely agree with you that older religions such as Norse should be taught in schools, this would almost definately help people in my generation - And younger, to develop an understanding of the fact that their religion (If they have one) is the correct one to follow, and to help them become more, I guess you could use the word 'aware', of more faiths.
.... I've rambled haven't I?

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

I got rather ticked off today with a boy who sits across from me in my Citizenship class, because he said "Athiests don't believe in Christmas and therefore are less giving than Christians."

SURPRISE!

 

[Time Lord]

um
flying rainbow norse mythology is well just a myth.
It in some sence is not a religion because it is just a myth, a legend but then again you can argue the fact that it is a religion because the meaning of religion has become so corrupted, that their is a religion based on the Sith.

 

[australopithecus]

I went to a Catholic school and was subjected to some of the most blatent bullshit I've ever heard, mostly it must be said in RE classes and that's to be expected,. For example 'The Silent Scream' was shown quite a few times and non-science sex education basically consisted of "Don't do it". Once during a class the subject of condoms came up, our teacher (an ultra-catholic) was preaching against them until someone told her it was immoral to do so given that they protect against STD's, specifically HIV. With no irony our teacher countered that with "Only gay people get AIDS".

So yeah, my Catholic schooling in a nutshell.

 

[SirYeen]

um
flying rainbow norse mythology is well just a myth.
It in some sence is not a religion because it is just a myth, a legend but then again you can argue the fact that it is a religion because the meaning of religion has become so corrupted, that their is a religion based on the Sith.

Religion and mythology differ, but have overlapping aspects. Both terms refer to systems of concepts that are of high importance to a certain community, making statements concerning the supernatural or sacred. Generally, mythology is considered one component or aspect of religion. Religion is the broader term: besides mythological aspects, it includes aspects of ritual, morality, theology, and mystical experience.

It is more than suited to introduce religion. You do realise that to alot of people Islam, Christianity and co are well ... just a bunch of story's right ? While I find a religion based on the Sith ridiculous, I don't exactly see how it is more corrupted then Islam or Christianity.

 

[Lurking_Logic]

I agree with the OP. In NZ we get a lot of Maori culture, including the religion, in the classroom. Learning about a religion and a pantheon of gods that no one takes seriously is certainly a good immunisation against Christianity.

I'm from NZ as well (Dunners lol)

And I remember for me even though we were taught Maori religious beliefs as well they were always taught as nothing more then stories
Fascinating stories but never truth

As opposed to the teachings of Christianity which we were told is true

So for me the maori culture studies didn't provide the same immunisation because of the attitude towards the maori religion was played down in favor of christianity

 

[DepricatedZero]

A few months ago I posted something about religion in school. I was taught about various religions in school, and the manner that it was taught I thought was very appropriate. A number of religions were addressed, and given equal time, and none were promoted as true, only "these people believe this and have these customs that stem from those beliefs." It was about understanding the religion and the people of it, rather than condemning it as wrong or right. I think that is valuable

 

[carbon dude oxide]

i have noticed in my years in secondary and primary school that they teach R.E very differently. like in primary it was alot about Christians but not much about Islam and nothing about any of the other religions (apart form there symbols). and in secondary school i find its alot about comparing the two religions. i am an atheist, and i think that there should be an option to weather or not you actually go into the class as most of my class mates dont pay any attention. (time lord you should know ). this way the people who want to learn about other religions actually get to learn it without the people who dont want to learn distracting everyone.

please forgive grammar and spelling i am terrible

 

[Time Lord]

I forgive you.
But you are wrong because everyone should to be taught religion, not because they should follow the religion but because religion is part of out culture and socity, so we need to be aware of it.

 

[FlyingRainbowPenguin]

Then why not merge R.S and Citizenship together? Most topics studied within R.S (Such as Ethics and Diverse cultures) can be intertwined with Citizinship topics. I don't see why R.S has to be taught separately (Especially as a core subject in England) when it's being taught in a non effective way.

 

[Daealis]

I think back in the days of primary school we were taught nearly exclusively christianity. Like a week or two about world religions, in where you'd kinda glance over everything on the table. One religion per day and the next tomorrow. It wasn't until in college(secondary high school/ upper secondary school, yea the institution apparently can't be translated. Basically after 9 years of primary school, it's either this or a vocational school. So you're 16 when you apply to this school.) where we actually took the time to study a bit more in depth these other religions. And even then it was just a brief history and stating factually that this is their god, this is their mass, etc. No real understanding of the religious beliefs or anything, it's just like reading a small trackt about every other religion and leaving it at that. The history of christianity and lutheran church is studied at length, both in Finland and europe in general.

But I can't remember any kind of forcing it down on us. It was more like a another class of history. Then again at the time I was at my highest religious asshattery, but even so. I always thought that the proper way of converting people would be to understand their beliefs, so I was really into studying other religions, and I can't remember any kind of downplay from the teachers when I asked about those things.

Finland is according to the statistics 79.7% evangelical lutheran. 17,7% define themselves not religious, although I think that there might be nearly 20% of those who are still members of the ev.lut. but are atheists, just don't bother to resign. Since every kid is signed to the church at christening, nearly everyone is there "at default", not even really realizing it. The church taxates like 10 euros yearly for each person, so it isn't really an issue if you're just indifferent about the whole thing.