Religion and Mental Illness

[kenandkids]

Anyone can be a danger to society. Your reality is only in perspective to what you think, so if you say that somebody else doesn't believe in reality and your referencing to your perspective, all your doing is trying to spread your religion like a televangelist. So they don't believe what you believe, what are you going to do about it?

a) I have no religion.
b) Certain things are real and true in life, regardless of "perspective."

 

[Vanlavak]

Anyone can be a danger to society. Your reality is only in perspective to what you think, so if you say that somebody else doesn't believe in reality and your referencing to your perspective, all your doing is trying to spread your religion like a televangelist. So they don't believe what you believe, what are you going to do about it?

a) I have no religion.
b) Certain things are real and true in life, regardless of "perspective."

A)
Religion:
A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects. (religion=belief)
Everyone has beliefs, formal religion or no.

B) If something is true to you, and false to someone else, you can easily argue to hell who's right, now explain that perspective and who's right.

 

[kenandkids]

A)
Religion:
A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects. (religion=belief)
Everyone has beliefs, formal religion or no.

B) If something is true to you, and false to someone else, you can easily argue to hell who's right, now explain that perspective and who's right.

a) I'm an atheist. No number of persons or sects applies. There are no practices. Thank you for illustrating so well the fact that I'm without religion.

b) Water is wet, space is cold, evolution occurred, the flood didn't. None of these are "perspective" truths, they just are.

 

[Vanlavak]

A)
Religion:
A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects. (religion=belief)
Everyone has beliefs, formal religion or no.

B) If something is true to you, and false to someone else, you can easily argue to hell who's right, now explain that perspective and who's right.

a) I'm an atheist. No number of persons or sects applies. There are no practices. Thank you for illustrating so well the fact that I'm without religion.

b) Water is wet, space is cold, evolution occurred, the flood didn't. None of these are "perspective" truths, they just are.

You proved my point that atheism is a point and a religion, you BELIEVE in atheism, therefore you have religion, you are not lacking in belief, you are simply blatantly avoiding the fact that atheism is a religion just like Christianity is a religion, Judaism is a religion, Wicca is a religion, ect.
Space in only cold because the nerves in your skin give you perspective on what is cold, so saying it is cold is perspective to the 37 degrees Celsius of your skin.
As for who's in hell and who's right? In our own perspective we are all right, I have never argued who is in hell and who's not, people arguing over who's in hell is simply stupid, there is no way to prove who's right, just two people's perspectives.

 

[kenandkids]

You proved my point that atheism is a point and a religion, you BELIEVE in atheism, therefore you have religion, you are not lacking in belief, you are simply blatantly avoiding the fact that atheism is a religion just like Christianity is a religion, Judaism is a religion, Wicca is a religion, ect.
Space in only cold because the nerves in your skin give you perspective on what is cold, so saying it is cold is perspective to the 37 degrees Celsius of your skin.
As for who's in hell and who's right? In our own perspective we are all right, I have never argued who is in hell and who's not, people arguing over who's in hell is simply stupid, there is no way to prove who's right, just two people's perspectives.

And now you have proven yourself incapable of reading or understanding even the simplest concepts.

 

[Exmortis]

Anyone who says " I believe in atheism " Is an idiot.

Atheism is not a belief in itself. Instead it represents the absence of a belief in a deity. The sentence "I believe in atheism" then means " I believe in not believing...", which makes it a oxymoron.

Atheism doesn't require belief, rather it demands a consistant lack of belief.


Why Atheism is NOT a religion:

1) It is a absense of a specific belief.

2) A religion is a sysytem of beliefs, the above is not a system of beliefs.


That pokes a rather nasty looking hole in your "Atheism is a religion" theory.

 

[Vanlavak]

And now you have proven yourself incapable of reading or understanding even the simplest concepts.

Sir, ending debates in personal insults is simply childish, if you do not wish to debate then simply log off and do something else. It really isn't my fault that you can't come up with something more meaningful to say, so why are you insulting me?

@Exmortis
Agnosticism is the closest to non-religion; atheism is a blatantly religion and a belief.

 

[kenandkids]

Agnosticism is the closest to non-religion; atheism is a blatantly religion and a belief.

Well, if you were capable of understanding how really silly this statement is, you would. Unless of course, you simply refuse to understand. And then you are being disingenuous... which you are commanded not to be. Your choice on which.

 

[Exmortis]

No... it is not.


Agnosticism - An intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge.

Atheism - Disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.



Atheism is purely the rejection of a God. (NOT a religion; a rejection of a belief)

Agnosticism is a claimless position, in other words, you do not know either way. (NOT a religion)



Kenandkids, you have been here longer then I have ( I think). Do you think it is worth continuing this?

 

[kenandkids]

Kenandkids, you have been here longer then I have ( I think). Do you think it is worth continuing this?

No, it really isn't worth it. He has had numerous clarifications and is simply restating the one line that he thinks insults us. The irony of insulting us by calling us religious never sinks in.

 

[Prolescum]

Er... Never mind.

 

[ranchodeluxe]

when only one person suffers a delusion it is called mental illness but when a group of people suffer the same delusion its called religion.

 

[atheistcatman]

does nephilimfree fit into any of these catagories, just curious, if so, any guesses what disorder he suffers from.

 

[Demojen]

It really isn't my fault that you can't come up with something more meaningful to say, so why are you insulting me?

@Exmortis
Agnosticism is the closest to non-religion; atheism is a blatantly religion and a belief.

Pot Kettle Black.
Your initial question flies in the face of your second statement. Atheism is not a belief any more then not collecting stamps is a hobby. In science and in fact formal logic, you don't have a belief by virtue of not having a belief. Only a bigot with a fundamental lack of understanding of logic would try to argue that it is okay to tell other people what their beliefs are based on what they are not. I think that is as Tim Minchin puts it, "fundamentally sick".


It is important, if you expect to be taken seriously without being shot at for being taken seriously for your threats, that you consider your words carefully.

Anyone can be a danger to society. Your reality is only in perspective to what you think, so if you say that somebody else doesn't believe in reality and your referencing to your perspective, all your doing is trying to spread your religion like a televangelist.

My reality is not only my perspective to what I think. I care about what other people think too. Sensory input plays an important role in my acceptance of reality. Science and logic play an important role in my acceptance of reality. Unsubstantiated claims with no evidence endorsing fear, murder, pedophilia, bigotry, slavery, rape and torture do not play an important role in my acceptance of reality.

People who are so easily swayed to shape their world view on things that do not exist are not inherently dangerous and so society will tolerate them. They may be mentally unstable, but that''s great. Everyone is on some level and for the most part, that adds to social development in culture. People who in expressing their world view; endorse torture, rape, slavery, bigotry, pedophilia, murder and fear...Those people I have a problem with. They are trying to destroy the world I cherish.

So while you're trying to substantiate the value of beliefs as they relate to individuals, consider their value as they relate to groups. A group depends on values working together collectively to succeed. No society has ever survived with a value system that did not recognize the common interests of its subjects. The further you gear away from the mindset that collective interests are valid, the more like a psychopath you become.

 

[Andiferous]

Anyone who says " I believe in atheism " Is an idiot.

Then say "I believe in nothing" (at least regarding divinity) instead.
By saying "I believe in nothing," I am actually giving "nothing" a word.
If "nothing" has a word, is it still nothing?

Food for thought, compliments of Samuel Beckett.

For the only way one can speak of nothing is to speak of it as though it were something, just as the only way one can speak of God is to speak of him as though he were a man, which to be sure he was, in a sense, for a time, and as the only way one can speak of man, even our anthropologists have realized that, is to speak of him as though he were a termite.

 

[Exmortis]

Anyone who says " I believe in atheism " Is an idiot.

Then say "I believe in nothing" (at least regarding divinity) instead.
By saying "I believe in nothing," I am actually giving "nothing" a word.
If "nothing" has a word, is it still nothing?

Food for thought, compliments of Samuel Beckett.

For the only way one can speak of nothing is to speak of it as though it were something, just as the only way one can speak of God is to speak of him as though he were a man, which to be sure he was, in a sense, for a time, and as the only way one can speak of man, even our anthropologists have realized that, is to speak of him as though he were a termite.

:lol:

Or we could skip over your entire confusing conundrum and say, 'I do not believe in any form of deity.'...


Seeing as saying 'I believe in nothing' is grossly inaccurate way to describe an atheist....

 

[borrofburi]

You proved my point that atheism is a point and a religion, you BELIEVE in atheism, therefore you have religion, you are not lacking in belief, you are simply blatantly avoiding the fact that atheism is a religion just like Christianity is a religion, Judaism is a religion, Wicca is a religion, ect.
Space in only cold because the nerves in your skin give you perspective on what is cold, so saying it is cold is perspective to the 37 degrees Celsius of your skin.
As for who's in hell and who's right? In our own perspective we are all right, I have never argued who is in hell and who's not, people arguing over who's in hell is simply stupid, there is no way to prove who's right, just two people's perspectives.

Are you really going to argue that it's just my perspective that I'm sitting on a chair typing to you? Are you really going to argue that it's just a "perspective" that the earth is approximately oblate spheroidal, and that it's also a perfectly valid perspective to think the earth is flat?

 

[Thyssane]

@Exmortis
Agnosticism is the closest to non-religion; atheism is a blatantly religion and a belief.

Please note, stating something as fact does not make it a fact.

Regards,
Thyssane.

 

[Andiferous]

Then say "I believe in nothing" (at least regarding divinity) instead.
By saying "I believe in nothing," I am actually giving "nothing" a word.
If "nothing" has a word, is it still nothing?

Food for thought, compliments of Samuel Beckett.

["Samuel Beckett"]For the only way one can speak of nothing is to speak of it as though it were something, just as the only way one can speak of God is to speak of him as though he were a man, which to be sure he was, in a sense, for a time, and as the only way one can speak of man, even our anthropologists have realized that, is to speak of him as though he were a termite. [/]

:lol:

Or we could skip over your entire confusing conundrum and say, 'I do not believe in any form of deity.'...


Seeing as saying 'I believe in nothing' is grossly inaccurate way to describe an atheist....

Hehe... I admit a lot of folks find my arguments confusing, but you're hardly one to criticise, bro. Anyway, I do think my point makes perfect sense given the context. I've believed in nothing a long time myself, and I'm perfectly happy doing so.

 

[sigen8]

Hi all,

I'd like to offert my opinion on this subjet, from a professional p.o.v.

I'm am a specialised nurse in mental illness, and this kind of question has been asked a few times in my field.

Schizophrenia (I'll only be writing about this one since the OP refers to it), is a mental illness where people disconnect from reality, often because of a traumatism from childhood (psychanalitic theory) or from abnormal brain reaction (current psychiatric model).

Symptoms depends of the kind of schizophrenia and are separated into positive symptoms (symptoms that are adding something from a normal thinking process) and negative symptoms (the other way).

There are multiple symptoms on both sides, but the one who is the "mark" of schizophrenia is hallucination, wich can be visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory and gustatory.

Hallucination
A sensory experience of something that does not exist outside the mind. A person can experience a hallucination in any of the five senses. Auditory hallucinations are a common symptom of schizophrenia.(Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine)

Many of my patients are religious and can hear voices. Most of the times those voices give them missionary missions, say that their neighbourgs are "satanists" or say that they are bad people. I hear that very often.

Now what is the difference between someone who have faith (in whatever) and can hear a "God" or "Angels" and a schizophreniac ? By definition, there is no difference. BUT, for that you have to aknowledge that God doesn't exist outside the mind (by definition).

I myself don't think there is any god or whatever, so if I start hearing Angels or demons, that would be hallucinations.

Now there is a thin line between religiosity and illness, and it's a cultural line actually. Depending where you are on the globe that decide "what exist oustide the mind", in some places illness is religion and other religion is illness.

Example : I met a fellow student from Africa, and he said to me that in his town, there were shamans that could talk to spirits and see ghost. And people refers to them on a daily basic.
The percentage of mental illness should rise where there is rational thinking and disbelief of god, because the things unnaccepted by those societies (regarding thnigs that exist ouside the mind) are far numerous.

Last point : I think relgious peole may really hear something, and that isn't hallucinations. This is my own theory and is based on my toughts alone.
The brain is extremely powerful. One the the strongest feature of the brain functions are defense mecanisms. I think that when people believe so much in a belief (here is religion), to protect the person from psychological harm, the brain can create toughts and sensations, therfore you can hear God but it's your own brain that create that sensation, because otherwise you would be harmed. We can see the same thing went womens forget memories (usually from rapes), sometimes they don't recall it and think it never happpend. This is a defense mecanisms from the brain that prevent that woman from recalling the rape and be harmed from it.

My two cents,
Simon
Note : Be gentle on wordings, english is my second language