Rape games banned in Japan

[WhiteDragon103]

Although you make a great point on the grey areas in videogames and movies, the only thing I really care about is your last sentence. How will this ban work in practice?

In the majority of Japanese pornos that I've seen, you will see the girl trying to break free and moan in an extremely creepy way, almost as if she's in pain. I know I'm not alone with noticing this, because my friends agree with me. This fetish of having a submissive little innocent girl being violated is built in in their sex-culture. You could probably call these pornos grey areas as well, but here's my point; where do you draw the line for what's permissible and what's not?

Can she moan and say "stop" in the video? Is bondage permitted? etc.

If you wanted to decide a speed limit for a playground zone, it may be hard to know if 30 km/h is more preferable than 35 km/h, but you don't really -need- to know that to determine that it is unreasonable to rip through a playground zone at 500 km/h. Likewise with this Hentai example don't think it is necessary to make the gray line so fine that you could split hairs with it - at least not in some cases. Some of the things don't have any reasonable case for seeing the other side of the line. But I'm not sure. Perhaps, rather than using laws, it would be better to simply promote positive social values in society, which may end up decreasing the demand for rape sims.

 

[Möbiµs]

If you wanted to decide a speed limit for a playground zone, it may be hard to know if 30 km/h is more preferable than 35 km/h, but you don't really -need- to know that to determine that it is unreasonable to rip through a playground zone at 500 km/h. Likewise with this Hentai example don't think it is necessary to make the gray line so fine that you could split hairs with it - at least not in some cases. Some of the things don't have any reasonable case for seeing the other side of the line. But I'm not sure. Perhaps, rather than using laws, it would be better to simply promote positive social values in society, which may end up decreasing the demand for rape sims.

These types of simulations are extremely disturbing to see, I agree, but at the same time every cell in my body screams with reluctance as soon as censorship gets in the picture. Besides, if you break this issue down to it's smallest components you'll get; a roll playing couple, where the woman enjoys/gets paid for being handled in a disrespectful manner by an aggressive man. They videotape their act and make it available for people to buy. Some purchase it and watch it in their homes, not hurting anyone and keeping it as far away from children as possible. No harm done here.

S&M, for example, is to me far worse than rape sims, yet I have no problem with the existence of videos showing the disgusting acts. I just avoid watching them and so can the Japanese that dislike this phenomenon.

I prefer your idea of value-promotion over a direct banning, but who are we to say anything really, they are the ones making this decision for themselves.
Nevertheless, it will be interesting to see how they resolve this matter.

 

[Aught3]

I come down on the side of not supporting the ban. Firstly, I don't think my personal feeling about what is depicted actually have a bearing on whether or not this sort of material should be banned. I personally find the Saw-type torture-porn movies disgusting - so I don't watch them. Similarly, I'm not going to play these games and neither is anyone else who finds them disturbing. In order for me to support the ban it would have to be demonstrated that someone else playing these games had a negative impact on me or other people in general.

What are the limits of this proposed ban? Would it just apply to games or to any work depicting rape, would something like Titus Andronicus also get banned?

 

[acerba]

I disagree, I don't know if you have ever played any of these hentai games, but they play like interactive story books, you make a choice out of 3 or 4 options and the story progress's from there, The system is not designed to make you feel like you are the main character, it's designed so you chose a handful of his actions and watch the outcome.

That's if it's a visual novel. Example (It's not finished, but the first act is available for download and is sex-free. IIRC, they are planning on adding H-scenes in the final product, and while I'm not sure what that will entail, given the theme I assume they'll be consensual).

Not all H-games use the VN gameplay style.

That said, I think it's worth noting that adult games who attempt to be highly realistic tend to perform badly because they have this tendency of falling into the uncanny valley.

I'm going to side with supporting the ban.

I'd like to point out that it isn't honest to compare a game where the objective is rape and the purpose for buying the game is to enjoy pretending to rape someone, with a game like GTA where the player can choose to kill hookers and steal their money, or not.

Yes, and you can beat Postal 2 without harming a single NPC. But come on, let's not kid ourselves. The appeal behind games like GTA and Postal 2(and even the Sims to a lesser extent) is that you're able to go on killing sprees and be more or less sadistic about it.

Also, in GTA, when you kill someone, the developers didn't want the players to really feel as though they had taken a life - the developers put more effort into storyline and character development. Hentai simulations where you rape and kill people are all about making the player feel and believe as though he has actually violated someone and ended his/her existence.
Violence in the usual games like Half Life 2 is something I'd consider to be in a gray area. There ARE games out there where the whole point of the game is to be cruel - I think many factors, including the overall purpose for the violence in the game, is what moves it from being into a gray area, to being in a definite no-no area.

If it's the intention behind the violence... doesn't that mean we should toss Sim City? I mean, you can cause earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and all sorts of disasters in a major metropolitan area for no other reason than to watch the ensuing chaos. At least with something like Half Life 2 you're fighting to save the human race from alien oppression. Sure, you you don't have to cause havoc for the little sims in your city. But how many people would be upset if Maxis suddenly decided to take that out of the Sim City games? Hell, the ability to create those disasters is a selling point right there on the back of the box.

Also, as for developers not wanting players to feel like they'd taken a life... it's becoming more common for victims of player cruelty to behave more human like. In Hitman: Blood Money, the first mission involves the assassination of a character named the Swing King. There are little cinematics placed throughout the mission designed to get you to empathize with your victim. He's portrayed as a good, nice guy whose life is crumbling around him. In KOTOR you have the opportunity to force one of your companions to kill his best friend (you've been traveling with both of them for most of the game). The Fallout series also has a few examples of this, in the most recent one (Fallout 3), you are given the opportunity to, among other things, sell two children into slavery, and nuke a city.

There is a lot I don't like, and I know it is fantasy, but that's not the point. The issue here is having respect for human life. I don't particularly like the idea of paying a hooker to take a huge dump on your chest, but I don't mind the fact that people enjoy that kind of thing because - well, who knows? Perhaps at one time by some tribes it was considered very romantic to shit all over your spouse; So long as they were not injecting the stuff into their veins, no harm done.

Respect for human life is fine, but fictional characters are not human life. Whether they are portrayed in a book, movie, or video game, it doesn't matter. They aren't real.

Killing a person in a video game, even if it's the most realistic and sadistic video game made in the history of the universe, is completely different from killing a real live human being. In the former, you've done little more than create a gruesome looking light display. In the latter, you've actually killed someone.

I'm not sure whether or not the law should be involved with this kind of thing, but nonetheless, we'd be better people to not find pleasure from imagining one another in pain.

A law banning such media isn't going to do anything. Jack the Ripper didn't play Grand Theft Buggy.

If anything such material should, very simply, be restricting it from children. But more importantly, those children should be taught to distinguish between reality and fantasy. They should be taught that having cruel fantasies doesn't make them a bad person; it's acting on those cruel fantasies in real life that does.

 

[GoodKat]

In Hitman: Blood Money, the first mission involves the assassination of a character named the Swing King. There are little cinematics placed throughout the mission designed to get you to empathize with your victim. He's portrayed as a good, nice guy whose life is crumbling around him.

I remember that, you show him a picture of a kid who died when one of his fair rides malfunctioned and he realizes what you're there for and starts begging for a second chance, pretty moving, really.

 

[GoodKat]

I am personally very disturbed by the fact that western society is so comfortable with violence as compared to sexuality.

Think about it, a consenting couple engaging in intercourse, a harmless act, warrants a worse rating than someone having their rib cage ripped out.

 

[acerba]

I remember that, you show him a picture of a kid who died when one of his fair rides malfunctioned and he realizes what you're there for and starts begging for a second chance, pretty moving, really.

I felt bad after killing him ;_;

I am personally very disturbed by the fact that western society is so comfortable with violence as compared to sexuality.

Think about it, a consenting couple engaging in intercourse, a harmless act, warrants a worse rating than someone having their rib cage ripped out.

Hell, even a nipple slip is worse. Kids are still suffering from the emotional trauma of that Superbowl halftime show!

 

[Otokogoroshi]

I still can't believe anyone who is 'pro ban' has come up with any actual verifiable evidence or greater reasons than "It's sick and twisted and I don't like it"

Forget what the subject matter is... you are in essence taking away someones right to enjoy something they like because you don't like it. How is that fair? No one is being harmed.


I'll be the first to actually state outright... I enjoy these games. I enjoy the comics that feature rape and even gang rape. Some of them are too sick for even me (and I'm actually shockingly tolerant) but I just avoid the ones that go too far (IE like one hentai movie I saw where a woman was forcibly raped by a giant SPIKE. It was disgusting and I instantly stopped watching).

So what gives you the right to decide I can't watch/play/read these things? Why does your outrage (be it moral or not) supercede my enjoyment?

I'm one of the nicest people you'll meet. My first instinct is to help people. Fuck when I used to drive out to visit my friend who lives an hour drive away I'd make sure to pick up some food at taco bell so I could pass it out to the homeless people who gather at his exit.


The people getting raped (sometimes is guy on guy rape or girl on guy rape too) aren't real people. They don't even look slightly realistic. No one is being hurt

So I ask again. Why do you support banning something that I enjoy purely because... you don't like it? How is that any different from the people who want all violent video games banned because they view them as immoral?

 

[acerba]

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html

The study looks at the rise of pornography in Japan in relation to sexually explicit materials.

tl;dr version: As more explicit materials have become available, the frequency of sexual assault in real life has decreased. Keep in mind, during the time period the study is examining, the population of Japan increased, and a person accused of rape is more likely to be convicted.

Granted, the study looks at pornography as a whole, not just sexually explicit materials involving rape, BDSM, or some other alleged deviancy, and it's a correlation study. However, I think it's safe to assume that such explicit materials have no meaningful negative effect on an individuals actions within the real world.

 

[Gnomesmusher]

It's a tricky thing isn't it? But I have to say that I don't support the ban. If it's understood that it's just a fantasy just as it's understood that playing a hitman who murders people is just a role and NOT real then I don't see why there should be a distinction.

I've seen further emphasis on the fantasy aspect with the use of disclaimers such as "This is fiction and the fictional characters are acting in a fictional role". I saw this on an episode of Law and Order: SVU and then looked it up.

 

[Otokogoroshi]

You know a person is pretty fucked up when they can't tell fantasy (video game) from reality ><



Or they're from a third world country and never seen a TV...

 

[Icefire9atla]

I am personally very disturbed by the fact that western society is so comfortable with violence as compared to sexuality.

I agree, you know when your society is messed up when showing a person having sex is worse than showing a person KILLING someone.

As for the ban, I'm against censorship, so I'm against the ban.

 

[Jotto999]

I am against the ban.

Since when is "it's shocking, horrible and disturbing" a good reason to ban anything in the media? If they banned this, why not ban any games with murder? The same justifications used to ban the rape games could probably easily be used to ban murder games. So why would there be a difference? Why ban one but not the other?

 

[enterman]

An update on the ban (warning, NSFW website): http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/06/03/rape-eroge-really-banned/ I'm truly shocked it's actually going to happen ><

 

[acerba]

An update on the ban (warning, NSFW website): http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/06/03/rape-eroge-really-banned/ I'm truly shocked it's actually going to happen ><

I'd say sad is more accurate than shocking, but it's a definite step backwards.

However, as it's pointed out in the article, the ban may not actually accomplish anything.

Notably, the EOCS previously banned games with loli or incest content, but this proved totally ineffective (perhaps as designed), whilst allowing the body to present a facade of "responsibility" (if appeasing moralists can be considered such) to those who might otherwise fret.

 

[monitoradiation]

I'm against the ban. Though it might be distasteful, people who're drawn to these types of things are still going to be interested. What's censorship going to change, really?

What's the difference between playing as a football player whose aim is to win the Cup, or playing as a rapist? One is just more morally repugnant than the other. But to then conflate what people play with what actions they are going to take in real life is simply wrong. That link has not been demonstrated (as far as I know).

People play games all the time fantasizing about things that they'll never to do, and situations that'll never happen to them. It's the curious nature of human beings to explore actions that they'll never make in life. Just to see the outcomes. It can also be argued (though how well supported I don't know) that if properly done, the consequences within the games can teach lessons against taking such immoral actions.

By making everything less offensive, censorship does nothing but to put blinders over the real problem. That being, that people are naturally curious about these things. The proper way to deal with what actions they take in life is through proper education, and not censorship on the games that they play.

Edit: It would seem that I'm late to the party. Sadface. I think someone already made some(if not all) of my points already...

 

[rulezdaworld0]

I never understood why people insist on having sex in video games, or movies (actual porn is a different matter )
I mean seriously if you have the time to become a peeping tom in a video game then you seriously need a life. Not that I'm proud of all the things I've done on video games, but still.

As far as my opinion goes... I do find rape more offensive than murder, but not mass murder as you can do in so many games (actually, I just finished a session on Oblivion). So I'm against the ban, but if the censors are like me then I can certainly see what they're getting at. And lets not forget that a vast majority of the most violent video games come from Japan. If you can kill hundreds of people then I hardly see how that isn't banned either.

 

[Spase]

My initial thought was that the whole concept is disgusting with no redeeming value..

The trouble of course is that as disturbing as it all is censoring it is still censorship. Also, when I stopped to think about it I came up with this important point. The game isn't disgusting, it's the mindset of the individuals who decide to play it that bothers me. Because it's the people who decide to play and not the game I really can't see how it makes any sense at all to ban rape games.

Like people have said, it's just imaginary. Pixels can't really do anything immoral. It's the people who are playing it that are disturbing and not allowing them to buy games depicting rape really won't have an impact on that I think.

 

[Daemon6]

As repugnant as rape simulations are, I have to agree with those who are against this ban. The effects that video games, comics, pornos have on societies are not nearly as harmful as censorship. Simple fact is, if you don't like it you don't have to partake in it. Governments have no place regulating personal morals in regards to things that have no demonstrable effect on other people. The more authority you give to tell you what you can and cannot do the more that will be taken. Social issues should be dealt with on a social level.

(Sorry if that was rambling I'm kind of tired and it's stupid hot here )

 

[SouthPaw]

i consider this as i would violence games.. more violence simulation = less REAL Violence

people in japan that want to touch girls on the Tokio trains. give them a game where you do the same thing!

why not ^^