Psychics

[Frore]

In Gavin DeBecker's book, The Gift of Fear, he talks about how our instinct is an evolved trait, but it isn't supernatural.

If you suddenly get a creepy vibe off of someone, it's not because there's some spirit guide warning you of how evil they are - it's because your basic, primal instincts picked up something that your conscious mind missed. He states that your instinct is never wrong, and does not just go off for no reason, but that your conscious mind may misinterpret it. Interesting, certainly, but there's nothing supernatural or psychic about it.

There may indeed be phenomena that we haven't explained yet, but the only way we will find an answer is by the scientific method, not by inventing ghosts and afterlives and tarot cards.

 

[WolfAU]

I agree that sub-conscious intuition can largely be explained by traditional means, but what I'm saying is it would be difficult to tell sub-conscious awareness of say danger, from basic senses, to something extra-sensory that we have no conscious control over.

I'm not really saying 'this is so', and do not believe in ghosts, spirit guides, afterlife, fate etc (a problem I think with calling my stance 'psychic', its so poorly defined what that comprises of). If I'm right I think it would simply be some kind of quantum mechanic we have little knowledge of.

I think an interesting thought experiment is to think about just how many signals are travelling through the air around you at any given moment, TV, radio, mobile phones, visable light, UV/IR light, sound waves etc etc. I'm not buying that scientists can make such a statement as we know that all humanity is aware of is our 5-6 senses.

 

[felixthecoach]

He states that your instinct is never wrong, and does not just go off for no reason, but that your conscious mind may misinterpret it.

I'm sure you misinterpreted what he said. What if you're "subconscious" is afraid of some specific ethnic group? They may be perfectly safe people, but you get an arousal when you are around them. This arousal might normally go away with continued exposure to the specific group, but because you're reminding yourself that those are legitimate feelings, you'll essentially help the feeling to stay.

However, the guy is right about one thing. That automatic thinking and fear reaction is a good trait to have, and the sense of fear arousal some people have when seeing a person different is probably founded in our evolutionary history. This is partially because our brains try to apply old evolutionary rules to our actions like, "if this is different, don't trust it."

 

[pigu0606]

I for one, had a firsthand encounter with a person endowing ability of paraperceptions... at least she had me convinced of her "psychic" abilities... this was approximately 8 years ago, when I was already a devout atheist, a firm doubter of the supernatural, and a student of science at a university.


She was only 9 years old when I had the privilege of meeting her, the goddaughter of our family friend.... from the outside, she seemed like a regular playful girl who displayed reluctance of showcasing her talents despite her parents' request... she'd rather watch cartoons in the other room escaping the guests... eventually after the persistent pleas of her godfather, the special child gave in and turned on her game face.


Witnessing her abilities:


I sat about a meter across from her on a sofa against the wall. As requested, I took out my own pen and a small piece of paper dug out from my wallet. Displaying pride in my rationality and skepticism towards outlandish claims, I carefully proceeded to survey over my shoulders to make sure no hidden cameras nor spying culprits were lurking behind. Under my tightly cupped palm, as if concealing my darkest secrets, I scribbled down a totally random word; "Disneyland"... I folded it three times, and like an American football quarterback, I smoothly handed it off to the inside of her closed fist (slightly above her knees) while she was looking up...

sitting less than a meter away from her, I stared directly at her with 100% concentration, as if my life depended on her every single muscle twitch... nobody else was in the near vicinity of her as they were either in other rooms or standing in the entryway of the living room... I also made sure she had no transmission devices plugged in her ears nor x-ray contact lenses... obviously I had every intention of debunking her...

to prevent the suspicion of her peeking down at the paper, a regular bath towel was placed over her hands, completely submerging them... throughout the ordeal, she was staring forward or up and around the room as if contemplating the next episode of My Little Pony... not once did she look down... apparently under the towel, she opened the folded paper and proceeded to close it between her palms, ever so slightly rubbing it... she was wearing a t-shirt, so nothing was under her sleeves so to speak.

it took about perhaps 2 minute or so before her extrasensory went to work... although she was having a bit of trouble spelling out the word, an innocent smile came her face... initially she said, it's a place... then she answered in her young girlish voice, "Disneyland?"


aaaaalllright... not bad, not bad at all.

at this point i was bewildered like any audience of a David Copperfield magic show... even before Richard Dawkins published The God Delusion, I had the common sense of knowing that just because I couldn't explain something beyond my reasoning, I shouldn't automatically attribute the event to greater powers.

at first i wondered if she could feel the groove left by the writing mark, allowing her to read it like a braille... but soon gave up that notion as I realized the writing on the paper was completely smooth.


Round 2.... this time I wrote a bunch of random 6-7 digit numbers... same routine... i made sure there were no funny business going on under or around the towel... there were no possible ways she could see through or around the towel even if she tried.... the entire time her eyeballs were looking up and away from the towel.... this time she revealed the numbers in less than minute... obviously she's warmed up.


~gulp~


3rd attempt... given that most 9 year olds have quick attention spans, I noticed she was starting to look bored... obviously she didn't need to prove anything to me, much less to herself... so in my best Jim Davis imitation, I drew a picture of Garfield for her to disclose... while i was doodling, she wasn't even paying attention to me, but rather engaging in a conversation with her godfather... this time, in about 30 seconds... with a look of astonishment like a regular 9 year old, she glowed happily and squealed, "Garfield!"... i let her keep the drawing... well deserved.



The little girl and her family had no incentives of deception, and her parents had no desire of revealing her extrasensory abilities to the general public... I even mentioned to her guardians of John Randi's Educational Foundation's 1 million dollar challenge... this immediately brought looks of worry to their faces... from their perspective, they'd rather pass on the incredulous monetary reward than to place their beloved princess onto the world microscope... most of all, they were afraid of the unforeseen troubles that would ensue after her overnight fame... the media and sociopaths that would surely harass her for the rest of her life, denying her of normal life.


After this extraordinary experience, I've come to conclude that our science & technology may yet bel too young to rule out the possibilities of such paranormal events in our universe. Think about it, only decades ago our televisions were monochromatic, common flu wiped out millions, and putting a man in space was stuff of science fiction... our human progress and discoveries are relatively recent in comparison to the billions of years that our ancestors have taken to evolve. We still have more to learn about ourselves and our interacting universe... more funding and research in areas of paranormals are needed despite the common scrutiny of such fields of study... anyone who readily shakes off such pursuits with contempt is displaying the same complacency of ignorance that men of faith endow.


Noticing that my writing is getting a bit lengthy, i will summarize the rest in bullet points:

-she says the concealed writing on the paper comes to her in scrambled meaningless information bits, but automatically reforms into meaning and interpreted back into recognizable forms in her head.


Other abilities she claimed to have:

-seeing auras of people, animals, and even plants (on the spot she demonstrated this ability by concentrating on the individual auras of me and my family members... she looked at me as if she had x-ray vision which made me feel a bit naked... she singled out my mother because she detected a darker energy color surrounding her tummy, which coincidentally had a history of tumors)

-seeing energy blobs that resemble "ghosts" (a term she dislikes using because it bothers her), but without the specific features or characteristics of humans... they float about but often stay stationary in one position (e.g. above the floor, near the ceilings in the corner)... apparently on that night, my family brought in 5 of these "things" which locations she specifically pointed out by pointing at them in the livingroom... she said they appeared to have followed us into their house... she says these "things" are benign and common place in our world.... believe me, that insight really bothered me, especially when i borrowed their can!

-Her abilities came about overnight when she was 7.

-She attends a special school for the gifted during weekends... some of her classmates also share her abilities.... i know, i know, sounds so X-men!

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I for one, had a firsthand encounter with a person endowing paraperception abilities... well, at least had convinced me of her "psychic" abilities... this was approximately 8 years ago, when I was already a devout atheist, a firm doubter of the supernatural, and a student of science at a university.

Sounds like you're lying. In my experience, only liars use the phrase "devout atheist"... it is a sign that you're not only not an atheist, but that you are also completely devoted to an idiotic belief system whose leaders refer to their more rational fellows as "devout atheists."

 

[Aught3]

Hmmmm, Freudian slip?

 

[Ozymandyus]

Video or it didn't happen.

 

[pigu0606]

Sounds like you're lying. In my experience, only liars use the phrase "devout atheist"... it is a sign that you're not only not an atheist, but that you are also completely devoted to an idiotic belief system whose leaders refer to their more rational fellows as "devout atheists."

don't pick on semantics bro.

one thing i do know for sure,
i'm not lying. period.


whether or not SHE was for real, well, that's up for debate...
but all my gut instincts & observation as a human being tells me she's no where near lying during my Q&A with her...
trust me, i'm more of a skeptic than most...
my perception of our "reality" took quite a shock that night...
i'm still a logical person who's deeply appreciative of having that rare opportunity to experience the realm outside our understandings... the realm is labelled as "supernatural"... a word that has obtained harsh stigma in our current epoch.

don't fall easy prey to the mob mentality of attacking anything that's outside our bounds of research and familiarity... i know most of ya'll adore John Randi, and follow him like a bad case of herpes... but you can't rule out the possibilities that maybe, just mabye:

A: he hasn't met real psychics yet
B: he has met them, yet they couldn't perform under his nonscientific controlled settings
C: they performed successfully, but results were covered up by JR for whatever reasons (one reason would be to keep him in the business and from losing his 1 million dollar)... maybe he would disclose all the successful results upon his death, being the eccentric guy that he is.
D: John Randi doesn't even have a degree in science, yet we the rational atheists take him as the final word for his random lab tests... how ironic... we all know he is just a magician, an entertainer who's gained fame and fortune by making a name for himself as the ultimate debunker... have you considered for a second that maybe HE is the real fraudster as oppose to the tens of thousands of psychis (many of whom are fraudsters as well)?

 

[monitoradiation]

Maybe you should invite her to Randi's little test. If she wins, she can get a lot of money. That would be good for all of us, no?

Oh wait. You were doing a conspiracy theorist thing in C. Nevermind. Yah, JR would totally hide the fact from everyone, because he's afraid of losing the 1 million dollar. Okay there.

 

[Aught3]

What James Randi does is show that he can replicate the ability of the person who claims to have supernatural powers. He has repeatedly said that this does not prove that they aren't doing it by supernatural means, only that the skill is actually not all that impressive.

As for the tests, the few I've seen done look like he is willing to part with money - I even saw him look worried at one stage when testing homeopathy If you're going to assert that Randi would keep the money after a successful demonstration, then this is the perfect way to avoid testing the abilities. What possible reason do we have to believe you?

And btw, what's wrong with not having a degree in science? Anyone can understand the scientific process and apply its methodology. Plus he doesn't run the whole thing by himself. This is just elitism.

 

[monitoradiation]

Aught, any links showing us how JR is testing these claims? I'm especially interested in the homeopathy bits...

 

[Aught3]

Don't know where any are recorded off the top of my head. The homeopathy one was actually designed and tested by scientists (yes, with science degrees) Randi got called in because it's the kind of stuff he's interested in. I'll have a dig around or maybe someone else knows? Maybe his website...

 

[Ozymandyus]

I am quite certain you are lying because anyone who really experienced something like you claimed would do everything in their power to get that little girl into a position where she could make a difference. If something like this happened to me I would:
1. Video it and go to news stations.
2. Be writing letters to JREF, and other skeptics and scientists and provide proof that such a thing is possible.
3. Run down the streets screaming that I had seen a real psychic.

I would honestly dedicate my life to documenting it and figuring it out, because such a thing could literally Change the WORLD. Instead you are here 9 years later talking about how she was in a school for gifted children with x-men powers and no update on how this now 17 year old child is doing.

No parent that had seen their child do such things would STOP them from showing other people. As an uncle and a knower of many parents, ANYTHING that makes a child special is Always the first thing that comes up. Especially if she/he is in some gifted class for it. The whole story is completely unbelievable - not one bit of it makes a lick of sense.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

don't pick on semantics bro.

one thing i do know for sure,
i'm not lying. period.

Really "bro"?

 

[pigu0606]

the lynch mob is out, as expected.

and i expect nothing less from my fellow rational freethinkers on LOR.

i hope my message will eventually reach those who've had or will have similar experiences, or are capable themselves of being blessed with such abilities.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

the lynch mob is out, as expected.

and i expect nothing less from my fellow rational freethinkers on LOR.

i hope my message will eventually reach those who've had or will have similar experiences, or are capable themselves of being blessed with such abilities.

I'm willing to bet cash money that you're a previously banned troll.

 

[monitoradiation]

No, you've just demonstrated an unwillingness to subject what you say is an undeniable case of psychic powers to tests in the laboratory settings and using lame excuses for why you don't want to.

If you really believe this girl has these powers, contact the proper people, and we should expect her on the news sometime soon. If we don't see her all over the news in a few months, we'll know either you're lying, or that her powers aren't really psychic after all.

Either way, we'll know, lynch mob or not. Remember, it's not our problem. You're claiming that this girl has psychic powers. It's up to you to prove it.

 

[Aught3]

'my fellow rational freethinkers' that's insulting.

 

[Josan]

i know most of ya'll adore John Randi, and follow him like a bad case of herpes...

It's JAMES Randi, thank you very much.

we all know he is just a magician,

Yes, and that's sort of the point isn't it? Who better at exploring basic trickery and deception than a man who lives with it each day, when he debunked Uri Gellar is a good example, showing people how the exact same effects could be gotten easily with basic sleight of hand. Houdini was quite similar, he devoted much of his career to exploring spiritual and super-natural claims for much of the same reasons.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

No, you've just demonstrated an unwillingness to subject what you say is an undeniable case of psychic powers to tests in the laboratory settings and using lame excuses for why you don't want to.

If you really believe this girl has these powers, contact the proper people, and we should expect her on the news sometime soon. If we don't see her all over the news in a few months, we'll know either you're lying, or that her powers aren't really psychic after all.

Either way, we'll know, lynch mob or not. Remember, it's not our problem. You're claiming that this girl has psychic powers. It's up to you to prove it.

If there's a real claim, the person making the claim should be able to present evidence. If they can't, we have no good reason not to ignore their claims.