Proposal for an Atheist symbol

[Prolescum]

Let us agree to disagree, shall we? I'm not as strict about grammar as you are.

NO! You are wrong and he is going to attack until you agree wholeheartedly!!

I'm going to discuss it 'til I'm not or the topic resumes course.

I'm pissed off with Christians because of my upbringing so I won't use a capital letter when using their god's name in revenge mwuah ha ha! is not even a basis for a good joke, let alone a principle.

[More dissection]

Friend, please let it go already. Why do you have to be so adamant about forcing grammatical rules down the throat of someone else. If I chose to follow rules when writing Sheffield and Wednesday, and break them when writing god, does that affect you?

You'd prefer that I understand what you mean, yes? That I don't ask for clarification every second post, yes? That, sir, is how it affects me. You're familiar with LRkun, I presume.

Really? You're picking a fight for a very mundane reason...

Dude, it's not a fight. If you can't have a conversation without having to resort to moaning to defend a pointlessly held position...

The "capital letters as sign of respect" thing was taught to me to be applicable when the proper nouns refer to something or someone that can be respected. This is what I was taught. I never said this is right. Maybe my English teachers were wrong.

I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[Shaedys]

No matter the thread, I still want to donate a symbol for the people who do not play soccer.

 

[FaithlessThinker]

To set the topic back on course, what's your favorite atheist symbol? Mine is (Sorry that the image is this big):

 

[JTB]

While I understand that people often feel the need to organize under a single banner, it's simply absurd to do so with something like atheism. It's not a proper -ism. Organizing to celebrate fellowship in a lack of something is pointless and counter productive. We don't share common creeds, backgrounds, nationalities, habits... really we don't have a damn thing in common other than the answer to the classic question that doesn't bear repeating. Far better, I think, to join or create groups dedicated to skeptical inquiry, science, rationalism, secular humanism and the like. Let atheism fade to the insignificant answer to an insignificant question which is the outcome I'd like to see become the norm. Not that I expect it to happen in my lifetime, but hey, a boy can dream.

+1

 

[Santa_Claus]

As leader of all the World's Atheists (thank me later ) I can confirm that the symbol of Atheism adopted and internationally recognised (including by the UN) is:-

A Spoon

And if you don't like it you can stick it up yer arse - and that's a FACT

 

[Ad Initium]

There is to much content above to specifically respond to anything specifically, since my last post. I note this though ...

You do not even realise it yourselves. The pi as a symbol for unity amongst Atheists ... in some form or sence ... YOU are already using it!

In a previous post I said this:

- Because groups need identifying markers.
- Imho, saying you are an Atheist just is not enough. You need symbols and you can use symbols as a defence mechanism.

You part of the League of Reason, you ARE a member,... and yes though that symbolism is multiple and includes religious content, ... the pi symbol as I suggested only does the following for the persons on this forum that are Atheists:
- All those on L.o.R. fora minus the religious members ... plus all Atheists outside that want to commute under that symbol/banner.

Though perhaps no direct symbol has drawn you directly to this forum -when you joined it-, most likely seeking a community for yourself, the idea of a group of same thinking individuals, has.

Why ARE you here? You happen to be an Atheist, stumbled on this forum called "League Of Reason" ... and Geez, ... lots of the people here seem to have views on matters I have too! .... What a coincidence !

You seriously want me to believe that?

You ARE a community already. Whether you like it or not.

All such a symbol would do, is commune Atheists here and beyond the forum.

--------

I senced a lot of hostility for the proposal I did. I wish to know why that is. Where does the hostility come from and why? What is wrong with a community?

--------

See pi in action in my latest video, where I translated the Sharia4Holland threats towards Dutch Politician Geert Wilders into english:


As you see, ... it is nothing hurtfull or provocative. It is actually very subtile and nothing to be scared off.

 

[FaithlessThinker]

I senced a lot of hostility for the proposal I did. I wish to know why that is. Where does the hostility come from and why? What is wrong with a community?

There is no hostility as far as I can see*. But there are disagreements, both in whether or not atheists should have a symbol, and in what symbol we should use.

I made a video about this subject, if you'd like to see:


* The duel between Prolescum and me was not related to your proposal at all.

 

[Prolescum]

There is to much content above to specifically respond to anything specifically, since my last post. I note this though ...

You do not even realise it yourselves. The pi as a symbol for unity amongst Atheists ...

Why do you think we do not even realise it ourselves? What makes pi a symbol of unity given that the only real commonality between atheists is that none of them believe in gods? Is that enough to need an established, official group let alone a symbol, let alone co-opting an already established symbol with an entirely unconnected meaning?

in some form or sence ... YOU are already using it!

In which form or sense am I already using it? Please provide links.

In a previous post I said this:- Because groups need identifying markers.

Groups don't need identifying markers unless they're gay, Jewish or unionists. Arf.

- Imho, saying you are an Atheist just is not enough.

Enough for what? Not believing in gods? You don't even have to say it out loud to be an atheist.

You need symbols and you can use symbols as a defence mechanism.

Eh? Are your symbols like shields of steel? Please explain how a symbol is a defense mechanism, and precisely why I need symbols.

You part of the League of Reason,

No I'm not... If there were a group waltzing around pestering the religious (like many youtube atheists do) and calling themselves the league of reason (i.e., not tongue in cheek like this place - you did know that, right?), I'd point and laugh then laugh and point some more at the righteous pretentiousness and obvious impotence of such a group. No holds barred, they would have to be ridiculed relentlessly.

you ARE a member,...

That's true enough. A member of a discussion forum, not an actual league. Although I was a member of the anti-Nazi League when I was a boy...

and yes though that symbolism is multiple and includes religious content,

Eh?

the pi symbol as I suggested only does the following for the persons on this forum that are Atheists:
- All those on L.o.R. fora minus the religious members ... plus all Atheists outside that want to commute under that symbol/banner.

What? Why does pi represent atheists, and why is it exclusive to them? Why are you excluding the religious members? Are they not reasonable enough to be in the league? Do they need badges on their shirts that proclaim 'I am the arbiter of all reason, swear fealty to me and I shall grant you atheism of your own!' before they can join?

Are you perhaps suggesting that Dragon Glas or Hytegia are less reasonable than some of the atheists on this forum?

Though perhaps no direct symbol has drawn you directly to this forum

Well, if you can call AngryWomble a direct symbol, a direct symbol led me here.

-when you joined it-, most likely seeking a community for yourself

Nope. I live in a community already.

, the idea of a group of same thinking individuals, has.

That's hilarious! I'm certain that as your experience of LoR broadens, you'll come to realise that there aren't any same thinking individuals, though they may agree from time to time...

Why ARE you here?

To read and to contribute a view on various topics. Why are YOU here?

You happen to be an Atheist, stumbled on this forum called "League Of Reason" ... and Geez, ... lots of the people here seem to have views on matters I have too! .... What a coincidence !

Evidence please. Specific instances of aligned views between yourself and lots of the people using LoR. Thanks.

You seriously want me to believe that?

Eh? A reasonable atheist wouldn't want you to believe anything, surely...

You ARE a community already.

The group of people who use this discussion forum can barely be described as a community without being disingenuous. There are even threads dedicated to the topic.

Whether you like it or not.

Only Sith talk in absolutes.

All such a symbol would do, is commune Atheists here and beyond the forum.

Eh? All such a heavily promoted symbol will do is embarrass those who do not want to be associated with you and it, and eventually embarrass yourself when you realise how irrelevant it is as a gesture and how futile it is to attempt to bring people whose only commonality is one insignificant convergent view on a single question together for a nebulous, ill-defined cause.

--------

I senced a lot of hostility for the proposal I did. I wish to know why that is. Where does the hostility come from and why? What is wrong with a community?

--------

Atheism is an answer to a single question and doesn't require a symbol to salute. The hostility, as you put it, comes from incredulity, the reason has been given many times already.

There's nothing wrong with a community, this just isn't one. Especially if you exclude the religious and agnostic members on the flimsy reasoning given above.

See pi in action

Does it move?

in my latest video, where I translated the Sharia4Holland threats towards Dutch Politician Geert Wilders into english:

What a disappointment. It just sat there not being very representative of atheists. I like that you added the scissors wherever you edited the original, it's a nice touch; now there's a symbol with a purpose I can get behind!

As you see, ... it is nothing hurtfull or provocative.

We can agree on that

It is actually very subtile and nothing to be scared off.

Pi already has a meaning and it looks completely out of place in that context...

 

[Gnug215]

You ARE a community already. Whether you like it or not.

Well, in a sense, the whole world is a community, isn't it?

I don't call myself an "atheist", does that mean I can't be part of this forum?

All such a symbol would do, is commune Atheists here and beyond the forum.

This isn't an "atheists only" forum.

And again, in essence, the only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in god(s). Think of a community of non-stamp collectors.

--------

I senced a lot of hostility for the proposal I did. I wish to know why that is. Where does the hostility come from and why? What is wrong with a community?

--------

There's nothing wrong with a community. We have a nice little one here on this forum, loosely based around... the forum. That's it.

Personally, I detest symbolism, but that doesn't mean I was hostile to you proposing this. I hope I didn't give that impression.
Symbolism, and the "effective" use thereof makes me think of stuff like the Nazi's and, well, religion. It seems like a tool for manipulating people on their basest levels.

 

[australopithecus]

Atheism needs a symbol I need a 20ft iron hat. It is a exercise in pointlessness.

 

[JTB]

A symbol should signify the dogma to which all atheists adhere.

I propose this:

 

[Memeticemetic]

A symbol should signify the dogma to which all atheists adhere.

I propose this:

So, where's the...

heeeeeyyy... I see what you did there...

 

[borrofburi]

Would you write your friend's names in lower case? How about cities? Months?

Actually I often do but that's primarily because I find upper case letters to be aesthetically displeasing.

Are you saying it's not important in a sentence to distinguish between a god and God when you're referring specifically to one or the other?

(1) I have a hard time seeing a meaningful difference between "a god" and "God".

(2) You'd be surprised how many christians in my life have made a big deal about ALWAYS capitalizing "God", "Jesus", "He" (when it refers to the previous two), "Christmas", "Christian", "Christianity", "Messiah", "Redeemer", et alia, solely because they see it as a sign of respect (I've heard multiple people say how everyone recognizes the importance of "Christ" because everyone regularly capitalizes any word with "Christ" in it**). It's somewhat entertaining how pissed off they can get (even to the point of sending really nasty emails about how offended they are that you would be so disrespectful toward them (where "them" can be either "jesus and god" or the person sending the email)). Thus one of the reasons I rarely capitalize any of those words is to remind them that their beliefs aren't special and instantly deserving of the (perceived) symbolic respect they feel so very entitled to.

In summary, I do it, in part, as purposeful disrespect towards religion. I recognize the irony in specially not capitalizing those specific proper nouns as a method of reminding them that those specific proper nouns aren't special. I also recognize the irony that my sign of lacking respect for those specific words involves making them (in my own eyes) slightly more aesthetically pleasing. But the end result is that they're reminded that not everyone respects their beliefs, and that I am ever so slightly more pleased with the way things look. Why wouldn't I?

**Alternatively: christ's presence in any word is sufficiently powerful to imbue it with capital respect. (the pun though, is my own)

 

[FaithlessThinker]

(1) I have a hard time seeing a meaningful difference between "a god" and "God".

(2) You'd be surprised how many christians in my life have made a big deal about ALWAYS capitalizing "God", "Jesus", "He" (when it refers to the previous two), "Christmas", "Christian", "Christianity", "Messiah", "Redeemer", et alia, solely because they see it as a sign of respect (I've heard multiple people say how everyone recognizes the importance of "Christ" because everyone regularly capitalizes any word with "Christ" in it**). It's somewhat entertaining how pissed off they can get (even to the point of sending really nasty emails about how offended they are that you would be so disrespectful toward them (where "them" can be either "jesus and god" or the person sending the email)). Thus one of the reasons I rarely capitalize any of those words is to remind them that their beliefs aren't special and instantly deserving of the (perceived) symbolic respect they feel so very entitled to.

In summary, I do it, in part, as purposeful disrespect towards religion. I recognize the irony in specially not capitalizing those specific proper nouns as a method of reminding them that those specific proper nouns aren't special. I also recognize the irony that my sign of lacking respect for those specific words involves making them (in my own eyes) slightly more aesthetically pleasing. But the end result is that they're reminded that not everyone respects their beliefs, and that I am ever so slightly more pleased with the way things look. Why wouldn't I?

Finally someone who thinks exactly like me!

 

[Prolescum]

Would you write your friend's names in lower case? How about cities? Months?

Actually I often do but that's primarily because I find upper case letters to be aesthetically displeasing.

That's even dumber than doing it because you're angry at Christians. I am wondering why you're bringing this off-topic (and ultimately fruitless) conversation back to the fore.

Are you saying it's not important in a sentence to distinguish between a god and God when you're referring specifically to one or the other?

(1) I have a hard time seeing a meaningful difference between "a god" and "God".

I'll make it easy. Thor is a god, God's name is also JWHW.

(2) You'd be surprised how many christians in my life have made a big deal about ALWAYS capitalizing "God", "Jesus", "He" (when it refers to the previous two), "Christmas", "Christian", "Christianity", "Messiah", "Redeemer", et alia, solely because they see it as a sign of respect (I've heard multiple people say how everyone recognizes the importance of "Christ" because everyone regularly capitalizes any word with "Christ" in it**).

:lol:

It's probably an American thing. Centre of the known universe and all that. It also doesn't change that it's, to put it politely, retarded (the respect thing, that is).

It's somewhat entertaining how pissed off they can get (even to the point of sending really nasty emails about how offended they are that you would be so disrespectful toward them (where "them" can be either "jesus and god" or the person sending the email)). Thus one of the reasons I rarely capitalize any of those words is to remind them that their beliefs aren't special and instantly deserving of the (perceived) symbolic respect they feel so very entitled to.

So it's petty point-scoring, as I said to FreemanMoxy or whatever he's called now. Well done. Gold Star.

In summary, I do it, in part, as purposeful disrespect towards religion.

I hope it's as cromulent a point as you think it is and that it embiggens your self-worth.

I recognize the irony in specially not capitalizing those specific proper nouns as a method of reminding them that those specific proper nouns aren't special.

They are special, the're proper nouns. That's the whole point. You're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I also recognize the irony that my sign of lacking respect for those specific words involves making them (in my own eyes) slightly more aesthetically pleasing. But the end result is that they're reminded that not everyone respects their beliefs, and that I am ever so slightly more pleased with the way things look. Why wouldn't I?

**Alternatively: christ's presence in any word is sufficiently powerful to imbue it with capital respect. (the pun though, is my own)

This post of yours is just a pointless regurgitation of FreemanMoxy and if you're trying to convince me of anything, you haven't yet.

 

[FaithlessThinker]

FreemanMoxy

Who is that?

 

[Prolescum]

FreemanMoxy

Who is that?

You know that it's you (I'd forgotten your new name except that it began with an F) as you were the one I was conversing with, so why are you asking?

Edit: Ah fuck it, I don't care why you were asking.

 

[FaithlessThinker]

You know that it's you (I'd forgotten your new name except that it began with an F) as you were the one I was conversing with, so why are you asking?

It's right there for you to scroll up (or down) to see. And I'm not FreemanMoxy.

Edit: Ah fuck it, I don't care why you were asking.

To be clear, as you have said all writings should be.

 

[Prolescum]

You know that it's you (I'd forgotten your new name except that it began with an F) as you were the one I was conversing with, so why are you asking?

It's right there for you to scroll up (or down) to see.

Yes, I was mid-response to someone else. Flay me for not remembering your new pithy username.

And I'm not FreemanMoxy.

Yet it was close enough for you to suddenly get arse-over-tit.

Anyway, wasn't it you who wanted the topic dropped for fear that your iffy reasoning was being dismantled? Found some testicular fortitude now someone else has the same skewed view? Congrats. It's always easier to avoid self-reflection when you have back up. Sounds awfully familiar...

Edit: Ah fuck it, I don't care why you were asking.

To be clear, as you have said all writings should be.

Funny. I like strawmen. I said there's a reason grammar exists: clarity. You're the one who wants to disregard it for the sake of upsetting people. How enlightened. A lot of faithless thought must've gone into it.

Besides, being the main contributor apart from myself to this particular derailment wasn't enough of a clue (or the similarity of the preposterous name I gave you) or is this just an attempt to provoke me now someone else has your back?

:lol:

 

[australopithecus]

I'd love to get all disrespecful by not capitalising proper nouns, but my inner grammar Nazi would kill me. Also, my outer grammar Nazi.