Positive Thinking Garbage

[AyameTan]

I decided to make a topic here rather than in Shameless Self-Promotion since I feel it deserves its own topic.

Basically, in my experience, most, if not all, blind optimists/positive thinkers have had incredibly pampered lives. If they knew what it was like to fail or be miserable, they wouldn't spout hollow platitudes along the lines of "I just choose to be happy!"

I've written two reviews on related books on Amazon.com -

http://www.amazon.com/review/RWDA4P5BC0DFW/ref=cm_aya_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=4871876292#wasThisHelpful

The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale

My father forced me to listen to this drivel for weeks on end when I was 12. Even then, I did not find the ideas in this book the least bit persuasive or helpful.

One of Peale's friends is quoted as saying "Every day when I wake up I realise I have a choice. I can be happy or unhappy. So what do I do? I'm not dumb. I just CHOOSE to be happy." What nonsense. I am reminded of a particularly callous sermon I had the misfortune of listening to in Japan back in 2010, where a pampered pastor described the Haiti earthquake victims as happy. If they were so happy, why were they collecting money for them? How someone can live with such blatant mountains of cognitive dissonance is simultaneously disturbing and infuriating.

Peale's friend could easily be shown the error of his ways by someone with more life experience. If I knew someone like that, I would punch him until he realised that happiness is not something that can be "chosen." We would not need psychologists, psychiatrists or people willing to listen and help each other if happiness was that simple. NVP tries to strengthen this platitude with another from former US President Lincoln: "People are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be." What nonsense. All this shows is that even charismatic leaders can be incredibly shallow at times.

NVP trots out prayer and dependence on Jesus as a solution (when in actual fact, it is the calming of one's mind that actually helps, not the prayer itself). This is nonsense, as numerous prayer studies and the utter dearth of regenerated amputees has already demonstrated.

If you want your life to improve, go out there and do something to make things better. Don't expect this travesty of a book or wishful thinking to do it for you.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1T8K4F7UENOZG/ref=cm_aya_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1847081355#wasThisHelpful

Smile or Die by Barbara Ehrenreich

Barbara's fractally correct in every possible way here; one simply *cannot* choose to be happy. We would all be better off if we dismissed this blatant lie touted by Norman Vincent Peale.

She shows how right-wing demagogues often cite pithy positive thinking platitudes as an attempt to blame those in perpetual poverty. And as we all know, those who fail to "will" the cancer away are never the subject of happy positive thinking books. And perhaps worst of all, positive thinking removes all motivation to improve societies and living conditions. External conditions are almost always dismissed by these gurus and charlatans.

Reading Smile or Die, I was reminded of a horribly callous sermon in Japan, where the pastor extolled the benefits of frugality and unequivocally spoke out against materialism. For his example du jour, he cited victims of the Haiti earthquake and how "happy" they were. Really? Is that the best they can do? If I lost everything and everyone I held dear in an earthquake, smiling might be the only way I could cope. It most certainly would not be a sign of happiness or satisfaction after going through such a grueling natural disaster.

Positive thinking has a horrible dark side that would lead to the instant dismissal of any doctor who prescribed positivity in lieu of radiotherapy for cancer. As anyone with any experience with the bile that Pollyannas spew forth on a daily basis, one of their implied mantras is "if you fail, it's your own fault." Spare me, please.

The author's research is impeccable. She unearths the deadly, fatalistic roots of positive thinking that came from the Calvinist branch of Christianity. Every word is enlightening and well worth reading.

Barbara ends this book with a clarion call to reason, citing some of the most cruel, heartless and ignorant consequences of positive thinking, including that of Rhonda Byrne, who claimed that tsunamis could only happen to those who are "on the same frequency as the event."

Everyone who has been deceived by positivity needs to read this book.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Eh.

I've got a similar motive for this - but happiness is literally a state of mind. That's not arguable.

I've been in a total shitter in many situations - from High School to Afghanistan and back - and though I wasn't pampered, I considered happiness the ability to kick back, relax, sleep, and then have a break in that awkward moment between shellings.
For me, happiness is the lack of annoyances and the presence of enjoyable pleasures. Playing cards with friends. Working out of my own free will. Smoking a cigarette and eating a fine steak. Playing pool. Winning games. Drinking beer.
And, really, most annoyances can be ignored - as long as you can take care of the problem before you. If you can't change it, then why let it bother you?

 

[AyameTan]

Eh.

I've got a similar motive for this - but happiness is literally a state of mind. That's not arguable.

I've been in a total shitter in many situations - from High School to Afghanistan and back - and though I wasn't pampered, I considered happiness the ability to kick back, relax, sleep, and then have a break in that awkward moment between shellings.
For me, happiness is the lack of annoyances and the presence of enjoyable pleasures. Playing cards with friends. Working out of my own free will. Smoking a cigarette and eating a fine steak. Playing pool. Winning games. Drinking beer.
And, really, most annoyances can be ignored - as long as you can take care of the problem before you. If you can't change it, then why let it bother you?

In some cases, that's easier said than done, especially when you're a pre-teen slave to a paternalistic father who won't give you a picosecond of free time, believes that exercise is always superior to an education and won't even let you read Choose Your Own Adventure books.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

In some cases, that's easier said than done, especially when you're a pre-teen slave to a paternalistic father who won't give you a picosecond of free time, believes that exercise is always superior to an education and won't even let you read Choose Your Own Adventure books.

Are we still talking about the rest of humanity, or are you projecting yourself onto this conversation?
It's not actually a question - you obviously are.

If I can be "happy" with a job that requires the disassembling of unexploded grenades and rendering it safe, then I'm sure you can find your own joys in life as a not-even-teenager-yet.
And, well, unless your father is beating you or depriving you of necessities (food, clothing, shelter) there's little you should be complaining about. He's most likely doing his absolute best - you've just yet realized how much he's doing.
(Don't worry. It happens to many people. Once you actually have to live on your own, and have to deal with the real-world bullshit of taxes, work, schooling, and noticing you actually have less free-time than when you were a child you'll realize that he's simply a man doing his best, and you'll regret your teenage angst.)

 

[AyameTan]

Are we still talking about the rest of humanity, or are you projecting yourself onto this conversation?
It's not actually a question - you obviously are.

Your point?

If I can be "happy" with a job that requires the disassembling of unexploded grenades and rendering it safe, then I'm sure you can find your own joys in life as a not-even-teenager-yet.
And, well, unless your father is beating you or depriving you of necessities (food, clothing, shelter) there's little you should be complaining about. He's most likely doing his absolute best - you've just yet realized how much he's doing.

I'm actually 29, and my piece-of-shit father (who treated me more like a slave than a son) ended up causing my first suicide attempt.

(Don't worry. It happens to many people. Once you actually have to live on your own, and have to deal with the real-world bullshit of taxes, work, schooling, and noticing you actually have less free-time than when you were a child you'll realize that he's simply a man doing his best, and you'll regret your teenage angst.)

Please spare me the condescension and false compassion.

 

[bluejatheist]

My life has been pretty well privileged yet over the course of four years of high school I've come to consider a cynical, misanthropic view of the world to be desirable and I incorporate it into any and all philosophy I adopt without being too irrational. At this point in my life I have yet to decide what to do career wise as I can't decide if I should waste time or not on a world as crooked as ours or focus on other goals. Having a positive outlook might be motivating for some people and that's their business but I've found it to be some what character-building or intellectually spartan to build my place in life from a standpoint of cynical existentialism. In short, yeah screw that positive thinking garbage.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I'm actually 29, and my piece-of-shit father (who treated me more like a slave than a son) ended up causing my first suicide attempt.
...
Please spare me the condescension and false compassion.

I'm going to place doubt upon your claim because you specifically made a nod towards "pre-teen" as opposed to "childhood" or "teenager." And, likewise, any misunderstanding on my part (if you're now telling the truth) is brought to the front as sincere due to the fact that in the specific post you were not only projecting, but using Present-Tense.
And, well, your complaints are usually those of a typical teenager rant, since you've yet to expand upon "he thinks that I should be doing something else other than what I'd like to do, he's over-protective, and wants me to be fit beyond what I'd like to be" (see: Most All Parents). You didn't lodge forth psychological abuse, physical abuse, nor lack of necessities - even though I brought them up as other options in the post you responded to that you struck out against.

My Condescension was based in the fact that there's much worse things than what you're putting up, and that one of the things you'll realize when you grow up is that eating, buying clothes, paying bills, and keeping a roof over your head is a major juggling act. And that's not common household things such as drying clothes, ironing, folding, making said food, washing dishes, taking out the garbage, mowing the lawn, and so on. Next thing I'm going to bet that your "treating me like a slave" means he gave you chores.

Billions of people go to bed starving at night, not knowing when they are going to get their next meal. Millions are homeless. Thousands die every second from a curable disease or malady. In hind-sight, the people who wake up every morning under those conditions and don't off themselves are considerably stronger persons in my book.
And, even then, I'd wager if you'd ask any one of those people "what makes you happy?" they'd respond something along the lines of "Friends, Family, Faith, Food, Water."

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

I'm going to place doubt upon your claim because you specifically made a nod towards "pre-teen" as opposed to "childhood" or "teenager." And, likewise, any misunderstanding on my part (if you're now telling the truth) is brought to the front as sincere due to the fact that in the specific post you were not only projecting, but using Present-Tense.

I do not think one can jump to a conclusion of someone's age based on the use of tense in a story (s)he has told. AyameTan stated twice that he was in Japan when he heard two different sermons. Thus, one conclusion that could be drawn is that AyameTan has learned English as a second language. Personal experience tells me that tense is the last thing you learn while learning a foreign language.

It could also be true that AyameTan is just bad at grammar; I know I am. I often confuse past and present tense in my writing. Even after proof reading it, I do not catch all the times I misused tense.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I'm going to place doubt upon your claim because you specifically made a nod towards "pre-teen" as opposed to "childhood" or "teenager." And, likewise, any misunderstanding on my part (if you're now telling the truth) is brought to the front as sincere due to the fact that in the specific post you were not only projecting, but using Present-Tense.

I do not think one can jump to a conclusion of someone's age based on the use of tense in a story (s)he has told. AyameTan stated twice that he was in Japan when he heard two different sermons. Thus, one conclusion that could be drawn is that AyameTan has learned English as a second language. Personal experience tells me that tense is the last thing you learn while learning a foreign language.

It could also be true that AyameTan is just bad at grammar; I know I am. I often confuse past and present tense in my writing. Even after proof reading it, I do not catch all the times I misused tense.

Tense is a human error that we all make - however, I wouldn't take a swipe at someone if they misconstrued my statement because of it.

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

At this point in my life I have yet to decide what to do career wise as I can't decide if I should waste time or not on a world as crooked as ours or focus on other goals.

Watch out for the mob and/or mobbing behavior from those that think they know best........ What makes them think that they know best? Their fear based agenda?

The mob or mobbing behavior along with establishing irrational fear is a symptom of what you describe........ IMHO.

If you watched a million people walk over a ledge or a cliff would you follow or try a different path?

 

[AyameTan]

I'm going to place doubt upon your claim because you specifically made a nod towards "pre-teen" as opposed to "childhood" or "teenager." And, likewise, any misunderstanding on my part (if you're now telling the truth) is brought to the front as sincere due to the fact that in the specific post you were not only projecting, but using Present-Tense.
And, well, your complaints are usually those of a typical teenager rant, since you've yet to expand upon "he thinks that I should be doing something else other than what I'd like to do, he's over-protective, and wants me to be fit beyond what I'd like to be" (see: Most All Parents). You didn't lodge forth psychological abuse, physical abuse, nor lack of necessities - even though I brought them up as other options in the post you responded to that you struck out against.

My apologies. I should have used the past tense. I guess the lingering resentment from 3 1/2 years in a concentration camp with no weekends and no holidays still hasn't left me.

My Condescension was based in the fact that there's much worse things than what you're putting up, and that one of the things you'll realize when you grow up is that eating, buying clothes, paying bills, and keeping a roof over your head is a major juggling act. And that's not common household things such as drying clothes, ironing, folding, making said food, washing dishes, taking out the garbage, mowing the lawn, and so on. Next thing I'm going to bet that your "treating me like a slave" means he gave you chores.

Working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week without compensation is something worth standing up against and regarding as unreasonably cruel. It wasn't along the lines of being denied my favourite dessert.

Billions of people go to bed starving at night, not knowing when they are going to get their next meal. Millions are homeless. Thousands die every second from a curable disease or malady. In hind-sight, the people who wake up every morning under those conditions and don't off themselves are considerably stronger persons in my book.
And, even then, I'd wager if you'd ask any one of those people "what makes you happy?" they'd respond something along the lines of "Friends, Family, Faith, Food, Water."

And there are those who would rather die. When you're a teenager and miserable, a week can feel like a year. I did not have the luxury of rose-coloured glasses until I was in my mid-20s.

 

[Frenger]

Happiness as a word is pretty useless. Everyone has different interpretations of what happiness is, as hytegia has pointed out but going on common definitions of 'feeling happy' (whatever that means) there is some evidence to suggest it can be increased without changing anything else other than your state of mind.

In reading a book by Lone Frank I came across some research in neuroscience which concentrated on what made people happy (instead of the usual, why is this chap pissed off and how can we try and balance that) and how to increase that happiness. It was rather interesting and I shall try and find some studies on it for you when I get back to my computer. Of course it will be more than just 'turn that frown upside down' or 'JUST GET HAPPY' but it does seem to suggest that personal happiness is malleable.

I would also add that this is something that seems quite personal to you but swinging for hytegia when you don't give him or anyone else the full story isn't fair. I'm not suggesting you pour your heart out, this is probably not the place to do it (although if you do want to then you are entirely free to do so, of course) but maybe just take into account that we don't know you or your situation and while I'm sure many people would by sympathetic to your story, you can't assume they know it and then lash out when they don't.

 

[AyameTan]

I would also add that this is something that seems quite personal to you but swinging for hytegia when you don't give him or anyone else the full story isn't fair. I'm not suggesting you pour your heart out, this is probably not the place to do it (although if you do want to then you are entirely free to do so, of course) but maybe just take into account that we don't know you or your situation and while I'm sure many people would by sympathetic to your story, you can't assume they know it and then lash out when they don't.

In a nutshell? Parents who force their kids to train to be the next Roger Federer or Tiger Woods would have given their children more free time. Before I was 18, I couldn't even ejoy watching movies or reading books anymore because my father forced me to read long-winded novels (I didn't help that I loathed Bryce Courtnay's The Power of One, the first book he assigned.

I was offered two hours of video games every weekend, and that constituted my entire recreational time for the week. This continued from age 15 to age 20. I was doing 9 holes of golf every weekend, and ebbing closer to despair and suicide each time.

 

[Frenger]

I would also add that this is something that seems quite personal to you but swinging for hytegia when you don't give him or anyone else the full story isn't fair. I'm not suggesting you pour your heart out, this is probably not the place to do it (although if you do want to then you are entirely free to do so, of course) but maybe just take into account that we don't know you or your situation and while I'm sure many people would by sympathetic to your story, you can't assume they know it and then lash out when they don't.

In a nutshell? Parents who force their kids to train to be the next Roger Federer or Tiger Woods would have given their children more free time. Before I was 18, I couldn't even ejoy watching movies or reading books anymore because my father forced me to read long-winded novels (I didn't help that I loathed Bryce Courtnay's The Power of One, the first book he assigned.

I was offered two hours of video games every weekend, and that constituted my entire recreational time for the week. This continued from age 15 to age 20. I was doing 9 holes of golf every weekend, and ebbing closer to despair and suicide each time.

I think this is a much deeper conversation and only one you should continue with if you feel comfortable. At the moment it's difficult to make any kind of comment on it. While I'm sure this was deeply traumatic for you (losing ones childhood is always a bitch) from this end with the details you have given it's a struggle to see to what extent this could be considered abuse.

If you feel ok answering further questions then I would ask how did you father enforce these rules? Did you ever question them or flat out refuse? And at what point did you decide golf was not what you wanted to do?

You see my parents never tried to push me into anything, it was more gentle encouragement because they knew the second they pushed me I would just stop doing it. I could only ever do things for myself (that's not really changed) so I don't really know first hand what overly encouraging parents would be like and to what ends they would go to ensure fulfilment.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Epiquinn]

I decided to make a topic here rather than in Shameless Self-Promotion since I feel it deserves its own topic.
Basically, in my experience, most, if not all, blind optimists/positive thinkers have had incredibly pampered lives. If they knew what it was like to fail or be miserable, they wouldn't spout hollow platitudes along the lines of "I just choose to be happy!"

Here's a contradictory case:

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

You have my most sincere apologies.

However, happiness isn't measured in what you want - but what you have. It's a state of satisfaction.
Like I said: I was in Afghanistan under some pretty tense situations (many times life or death), but even then there were times I could smile, look up at the stars, and say "Damn, now isn't that the most beautiful sight in the world?"

Say what you want about a place that's practically a wasteland - but the night sky out there is, without a doubt, absolutely incredible.

Playing cards with friends, boxing, doing little magic tricks, eating well, sleeping, and so on were all activities I enjoyed. Doing those things made me happy. It was a break from the obvious stresses.
When I got injured and sent home, plenty of things made me happy. And DO make me happy.

I mean, fuck, I have INTERNET. Which implies a mountain of marvelous technologies and wonders of modern science that 40 years ago would have been thought impossible.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Even tough the vast majority of the positive thinking philosophy is completly and utter bullshit, there is some true to it. How often have I seen people just given up on problems without even trying just because they think they could never make it? If you think you can make it then at least you will be putting some effort into it and very often suceed in things you never taught you could. And if you failed, you really haven't lost anything and you will still be happy because you tryed.

Life ain't is, there is allot of worked involved, do you think that just because we are getting more technology that we will enable us to do things more easily than we previously could that overall everything will be easier? No! You just get more work and more stress to suceed. It is not you against the elements. It is you against the other guy that can do things better, faster and cheaper. And if you don't step up to the game he gets the job and you don't. If there are limits to be pushed, you can bet your ass there is some one pushing it right now making everyone elses effort look like crap in comparison.

"AyameTan", your father is not a bad dude. Just look at it, he was over exposing you to some heavy literature, he tryed to expouse to content about sucess and making practice golf (which is one of the main business social sports). Most of those contents can become tools to your future sucess.
Ask yourself, what kind of person would do that? Do you think that if your father hated you that he would care about you? If he hated you perhaps he would kill you with work, but that work would be on a sweat shop and he would take all the money, certainly you wouldn't be playing golf.
You have to understand that your father was also a kid once, he grew up, he went trough allot of ups and downs. Sure his methods were crapy, pressuring more than you could take it, ended out making you psychologicaly adverse, he doesn't really know what he is doing. But I bet he trully believes that all that was to give you the tools you would need to suceed, so that you can avoid the pitfalls he fallen into, so that you can take the shortcuts he would have liked to have had in his time. He is not a bad guy, he is just doing the best he knows, he just doesn't know allot and endout doing things that he shouldn't. But you can't blame him for that, if you were on his shoes you would probably make the same mistakes he did, because after all, he is you.

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

 

[bluejatheist]

Watch out for the mob and/or mobbing behavior from those that think they know best........ What makes them think that they know best? Their fear based agenda?

The mob or mobbing behavior along with establishing irrational fear is a symptom of what you describe........ IMHO.

If you watched a million people walk over a ledge or a cliff would you follow or try a different path?

What I meant is I'm undecided on how worthwhile it is to me to work towards improving the world(sciences, environmentalism, activism) vs more selfish goals of living comfortably and leisurely, and how both should be balanced. Since this is all vain I might want to take time to enjoy myself in spite of it all, but at the same time I still get something of a nice feeling out of my regular blood donations and etc.

More on topic, I think there is a difference between confidence in the ability to succeed and idealism. There's also a difference between being hopeful for improvement in the world and the absurd notion that life, and the world/nature/universe, is inherently good or nice. I especially can't stand people who won't acknowledge the problems in the world.

 

[AyameTan]

Apologies for the belated reply. I've been up to my eyeballs in study and working out for two fun runs next month.

You have my most sincere apologies.

You have my gratitude for trying to see things from my side of the issue.

However, happiness isn't measured in what you want - but what you have. It's a state of satisfaction.

And a certain requisite level of needs and wants must be satisfied before happiness becomes even feasible. I assume you've learned about Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

Like I said: I was in Afghanistan under some pretty tense situations (many times life or death), but even then there were times I could smile, look up at the stars, and say "Damn, now isn't that the most beautiful sight in the world?"

And like I alluded to earlier, those being tortured are less likely to be able to even appreciate the night sky.

Say what you want about a place that's practically a wasteland - but the night sky out there is, without a doubt, absolutely incredible.

I'm sure it is. Just like the night sky anywhere else in the world.

Playing cards with friends, boxing, doing little magic tricks, eating well, sleeping, and so on were all activities I enjoyed. Doing those things made me happy. It was a break from the obvious stresses.
When I got injured and sent home, plenty of things made me happy. And DO make me happy.

Good for you. But when you're a slave to paternalistic tyranny (pardon the tautology), happiness is extremely elusive.

I mean, fuck, I have INTERNET. Which implies a mountain of marvelous technologies and wonders of modern science that 40 years ago would have been thought impossible.

I couldn't agree more.