Pope Francis says Atheists are "ok"

[Frenger]

Sauce

On twitter earlier this year, a man of a Catholic persuasion told me I was going to Hull due to the simple act of not being a born again Christian.

Now however, the popestar has announced that actually, Atheists are ok.

What change, if any, do you think this kind of statement will make?

 

[australopithecus]

Probably none. Or some. Maybe a bit. I don't know.

 

[WarK]

I think it is an improvement. The previous pope said condoms caused AIDS.

 

[Prolescum]

This chap has been a lot more positive than the creepy one.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

[sarcasm]Oh great, now I can be an atheist without fearing hell now.[/sarcasm] As if I actually believed in hell to start with.
But yeah, he doesn't (yet) look as crazy as the previous ones.

 

[Vivre]

Let's p(h)ope for the best ;-)

Well, if this attitude spreads to the basis it should make Christians a bit less offensive.

 

[malicious_bloke]

Well this is going to cause some amusement.

*grabs popcorn*

I am somewhat confused, however. It was my understanding that official catholic doctrine was a bit more [wrong word incoming] Calvinist, in the sense that humans are all depraved sinners and damned by default until they recieved salvation through the church.

This implied new "salvation through works" thing seems a bit of an eyebrow-raising departure...

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

 

[Vivre]

... humans are all depraved sinners and damned by default until they recieved salvation through the church.

I'm not sure about all the terms, but salvation is certainly not given by the church ... [sarcasm]that would unemploy J*[/sarcasm] - if I may say ;-)

But mind you ~ the omni-driven all-loving virture will approve you anyway ~ no chance to skip heaven :mrgreen:

 

[DukeTwicep]

Well this is interesting. Since the pope is supposed to be Yahweh's spokesman (he's not schizo), this means that Yahweh thinks that atheists are good people. This is big news, Yahweh has spoken!

 

[Nemesiah]

Am I the only one ticked off by this?

Let me explain:

I don't believe in this asshole's God or heaven, I don't want him pratonizing me by saying "don't worry my little heretical son you will be in heaven too weather you want to or not".

FUCK YOU!!!! I DON'T WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN!!! I FUCKING RENOUNCE THE HOLY GHOST AND DENOUNCE IT AS THE CUNT IT IS! THE VIRGIN MARY WAS ANYTHING BUT, SHE WAS A PROMISCUOS LIAR THAT GOT AWAY WITH THE STUPPIDEST TALE IN HISTORY TO AVOID GETTING STONED TO DEATH! (I actually dont believe either her, or Jesus even existed but I'm just making a point here)

Go to heaven for what? to become a mindsalve to God and sing his praises for the rest of eternity? No thanks.

I know that whatever the pope may think doesn't make heaven any less of a coked up fantasy created when humanity had yet to learn how to properly wipe its own ass, yet I still pisses me off that this jackass is trying to come of as wise and saintly while being a company man to Jesus Inc.

People are saying "Oh he is more progresive than the las one"; what he is is a better salesman, because if you make the church less rigorous, it is harder to find faults with it thus more people stay and keep giving them money.

 

[Frenger]

Am I the only one ticked off by this?

Probably not.

I don't believe in this asshole's God or heaven, I don't want him pratonizing me by saying "don't worry my little heretical son you will be in heaven too weather you want to or not".

I do find it curious that if getting into heaven requires nothing more than good deeds, to what extent is Christianity even a useful thing?

FUCK YOU!!!! I DON'T WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN!!! I FUCKING RENOUNCE THE HOLY GHOST AND DENOUNCE IT AS THE CUNT IT IS! THE VIRGIN MARY WAS ANYTHING BUT, SHE WAS A PROMISCUOS LIAR THAT GOT AWAY WITH THE STUPPIDEST TALE IN HISTORY TO AVOID GETTING STONED TO DEATH! (I actually dont believe either her, or Jesus even existed but I'm just making a point here)

I do like David Hume on the subject when he asks what was more likely, that the laws of nature are suspended in your favour, or that a minx should tell a lie?

However, as Heaven in the way Christianity describes it almost certainly doesn't exist, I'm not too fussed what your man says about it and what the entrance exam might or might not be. I'm concerned about how this alters peoples behaviour in the here and now....or reality as we sometimes call it. When I was talking to a Church leader over a coffee with a friend of his, I could see it actually causing him pain that we would not join him in heaven regardless of how jolly nice we were. This of course, caused him to try what he could to show us the light of Jesus, which is always to a degree, slightly irritating.

I guess I'm interested in how this affects two kinds of Christians, the ones that are scared for your eternal safety, and the ones who use hell as a threat and heaven as a reward.

Go to heaven for what? to become a mindsalve to God and sing his praises for the rest of eternity? No thanks.

I agree, I sometimes have a hard time getting this across to people, that an eternity of praising sounds like hell to me.

I know that whatever the pope may think doesn't make heaven any less of a coked up fantasy created when humanity had yet to learn how to properly wipe its own ass, yet I still pisses me off that this jackass is trying to come of as wise and saintly while being a company man to Jesus Inc.

I suppose I'm not too fussed what his ulterior motives are, if it stops some Christians hurting and other Christians threatening then I'm all for the motion.

People are saying "Oh he is more progresive than the las one"; what he is is a better salesman, because if you make the church less rigorous, it is harder to find faults with it thus more people stay and keep giving them money.

People are free to do whatever they want, and that's the point. I'm bored of people trying to save my soul or threaten me with their weird fictional fantasies, if it stops people knocking on my door and forces them to live their own lives, I'm all for it.

 

[malicious_bloke]

... humans are all depraved sinners and damned by default until they recieved salvation through the church.

I'm not sure about all the terms, but salvation is certainly not given by the church ... [sarcasm]that would unemploy J*[/sarcasm] - if I may say ;-)

But mind you ~ the omni-driven all-loving virture will approve you anyway ~ no chance to skip heaven :mrgreen:

Then what is the confessional for?

If a priest can grant you absolution for your sins, doesn't that bypass the whole jesus thing aswell?

 

[Vivre]

Then what is the confessional for?

If a priest can grant you absolution for your sins, doesn't that bypass the whole jesus thing aswell?

The priest is as a blessed agent only a conjunction operator to God's acknowledgement. It is completely up to your repentance if those specific sins you have actually confessed will be forgiven. The priest in a way only affirms that you have been heard and therefore restates that the promise of forgiveness will be granted for you.

Inside the confessional box or under the arrangement of shrive the priest is not to be regarded for his human properties but as guaranteed transmitter.

 

[Hamster]

I am going back a lot of years to my highschool religous instruction classes. Didn't God give Peter the keys to heaven and give him the authority to make the rules ? something about what is loosed on earth will be done in heaven and what is banned on earth will be banned in heaven. ?

If so then the Pope having inherited this power from Peter, can approve condoms, orgies, eating red meat on fridays and letting atheists into heaven :shock:


could someone post to our dear friend Jason Burns ? I want to see his head explode

 

[Laurens]

Am I the only one ticked off by this?

Let me explain:

I don't believe in this asshole's God or heaven, I don't want him pratonizing me by saying "don't worry my little heretical son you will be in heaven too weather you want to or not".

FUCK YOU!!!! I DON'T WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN!!! I FUCKING RENOUNCE THE HOLY GHOST AND DENOUNCE IT AS THE CUNT IT IS! THE VIRGIN MARY WAS ANYTHING BUT, SHE WAS A PROMISCUOS LIAR THAT GOT AWAY WITH THE STUPPIDEST TALE IN HISTORY TO AVOID GETTING STONED TO DEATH! (I actually dont believe either her, or Jesus even existed but I'm just making a point here)

Go to heaven for what? to become a mindsalve to God and sing his praises for the rest of eternity? No thanks.

I know that whatever the pope may think doesn't make heaven any less of a coked up fantasy created when humanity had yet to learn how to properly wipe its own ass, yet I still pisses me off that this jackass is trying to come of as wise and saintly while being a company man to Jesus Inc.

People are saying "Oh he is more progresive than the las one"; what he is is a better salesman, because if you make the church less rigorous, it is harder to find faults with it thus more people stay and keep giving them money.

To be honest I find it much less insulting to be told by the Pope that I can go to heaven too, than to be told that atheists are like Nazis---which was the old Pope's line of attack.

 

[Nemesiah]

Am I the only one ticked off by this?

Let me explain:

I don't believe in this asshole's God or heaven, I don't want him pratonizing me by saying "don't worry my little heretical son you will be in heaven too weather you want to or not".

FUCK YOU!!!! I DON'T WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN!!! I FUCKING RENOUNCE THE HOLY GHOST AND DENOUNCE IT AS THE CUNT IT IS! THE VIRGIN MARY WAS ANYTHING BUT, SHE WAS A PROMISCUOS LIAR THAT GOT AWAY WITH THE STUPPIDEST TALE IN HISTORY TO AVOID GETTING STONED TO DEATH! (I actually dont believe either her, or Jesus even existed but I'm just making a point here)

Go to heaven for what? to become a mindsalve to God and sing his praises for the rest of eternity? No thanks.

I know that whatever the pope may think doesn't make heaven any less of a coked up fantasy created when humanity had yet to learn how to properly wipe its own ass, yet I still pisses me off that this jackass is trying to come of as wise and saintly while being a company man to Jesus Inc.

People are saying "Oh he is more progresive than the las one"; what he is is a better salesman, because if you make the church less rigorous, it is harder to find faults with it thus more people stay and keep giving them money.

To be honest I find it much less insulting to be told by the Pope that I can go to heaven too, than to be told that atheists are like Nazis---which was the old Pope's line of attack.

The point is that people should not forget what we are dealing with here, it is still a group that collects money, doesn't pay any taxes, protects child rapists, force feeds children the Idea that they are somehow cursed and only through them can they be saved (although this last one I don't know how works with the whole "atheists are fine too" thing).

The catholic church makes it easy to leave due to its nature, it is a religion founded on hate, mysoginy, murder, genocide and other idiotic ideas. The fact that they are changing (or rather masking) these ideas just makes it that much harder for people to see them for what they realy are, that is what apologists are all about, making their nonsense more palatable so that more people will believe so they give them money.

The day that the Pope goes, "We are stoping tithes effective immediately and selling everything to pay for the victims of our wrong doings, from now on priesthood will not be compensated economically" then I will believe it's all in good faith, untill then I think it is just a publicity stunt.

 

[Vivre]

The catholic church makes it easy to leave due to its nature, it is a religion founded on hate, mysoginy, murder, genocide and other idiotic ideas. The fact that they are changing (or rather masking) these ideas just makes it that much harder for people to see them for what they realy are, that is what apologists are all about, making their nonsense more palatable so that more people will believe so they give them money.

I go with you that the catholic church bases on violent history and behavior (incl lies) and don't see any chance for it to develope into something good.
I also see your point that the current statement could be a swing just to occupy a further position to cover up the bad intention behind it. Still I don't expect that this in particular will raise a lot of attention nor have a big impact.

But it is a massive attact of arrogance to claim that heaven is the forced determination for every halfway friendly human, leaving them with no way out.

I don't mind this so much - it's their heaven they can make it what they want. But the deprivation of own conclusions for non-religion-members is a serious threat as such.

Besides I don't think it's done for money, but to catch the proceeding degression of power / influence.

 

[malicious_bloke]

It is an interesting conundrum for the church leadership though. Having to walk a tightrope between alienating potential recruits from places where catholic teachings (especially on 'issues' like the use of birth control) seem archaic and out-of-touch AND simultaneously keep the church traditionalists happy.

Successive popes lecturing the world on the evils of unfettered capitalism while sitting in the world's biggest treasure collection remains hypocritical bullshit, however.

IMO the world would be a better place if Jeremy Irons was the next pope. At least incest and poisonings are more fun than covering up for paedophile rings.

 

[Nemesiah]

It is an interesting conundrum for the church leadership though. Having to walk a tightrope between alienating potential recruits from places where catholic teachings (especially on 'issues' like the use of birth control) seem archaic and out-of-touch AND simultaneously keep the church traditionalists happy.

Successive popes lecturing the world on the evils of unfettered capitalism while sitting in the world's biggest treasure collection remains hypocritical bullshit, however.

IMO the world would be a better place if Jeremy Irons was the next pope. At least incest and poisonings are more fun than covering up for paedophile rings.

Not to mention Dragons, that shit would have me reenlisting to the Catholic church in no time flat