Physics' depressing predictions of human space exploration.

[e2iPi]

Anyone saying that it's impossible to do anything is guilty of assuming that we already know everything there is to know.

Two hundred years ago, someone said that it was impossible to have a conversation with someone on the other side of the planet. Do the calculations, if you take the speed of sound and the distance that it has to travel, you'll realize that it was and still is impossible to communicate instantaneously with someone on the other side of the planet. Am I right?

Apples and oranges.
There was no fundamental theory which prohibited transmitting information faster than the speed of sound - there IS a fundamental theory which prohibits transmitting information faster than the speed of light. As has already been pointed out by others, in order to exceed the speed of light, our understanding of the universe must be fundamentally flawed.

i^2

 

[Jotto999]

I wouldn't say "never", or "impossible", because we certainly don't know everything there is to know. Science is in it's infancy. I think it could be possible, however we simply won't be able to do it for a very long time (if ever).

And I mean a long time, I would guess not for thousands of years, maybe millions (if we're still around then). But who knows.

 

[Breakyerself]

The way relativity works is that the closer you get to the speed of light the slower time moves. If you could get close enough to the speed of light you could reach the nearest star in months, weeks, days, hours, depending on how many decimal points within light speed you can get. While years would be passing by on earth the person making the trip wouldn't need suspended animation or generations of space travelers. This isn't science fiction it's based on actual science. The energy needed to propel even a small ship to 99.9% of the speed of light is enormous, but that doesn't make it imposable. I don't see why we should be stuck within our solar system just because we can't go faster than light. Speaking of which. Our current understanding of the physical laws are obviously flawed. If relativity were perfect it would match up with quantum theory, but it doesn't. Perhaps when we do finally have an all inclusive theory of physics it will be able to show us how FTL travel could be done. You never know. Really you don't

 

[Breakyerself]

There was no fundamental theory which prohibited transmitting information faster than the speed of sound - there IS a fundamental theory which prohibits transmitting information faster than the speed of light. As has already been pointed out by others, in order to exceed the speed of light, our understanding of the universe must be fundamentally flawed.

i^2

With a stream of quantum entangled particles flowing in opposite directions you can actually transmit information instantly over any distance. By that I mean faster than the speed of light. This is proven. With two entangled particles separated by any distance you can act on one and effect the other one instantly. So the speed of light is absolutely not a limiting factor for the transmission of information.

 

[e2iPi]

With a stream of quantum entangled particles flowing in opposite directions you can actually transmit information instantly over any distance. By that I mean faster than the speed of light. This is proven. With two entangled particles separated by any distance you can act on one and effect the other one instantly. So the speed of light is absolutely not a limiting factor for the transmission of information.

No. Quantum entanglement cannot be used to transmit information without the presence of a standard (subluminal) communications channel between the two locations.

 

[curiousmind]

We're overlooking something here.

It is true that we won't be able to get to any star of relevance in any convenient time, if we can't travel even a fraction of light speed.

However, even if we remain as slow as we foresee ourselves being, there is no limit to the increase in life expectancy.
As in, eventually, the time that it will take us to get to Alpha Centuri will be meaningless to us. Maybe the centuries it would take mankind to get there would only really mean as much to us as a year-long voyage to the New World.

Also, I would expect the increased life expectancy of our species would give us an incentive to go; that is, something to do. We will eventually get bored of this solar system, and out of nothing but curiosity, a pioneering spirit and boredom, we will want to explore new worlds.

So, even presuming physics doesn't find a quick fix, I can't envisage it from stopping us.

 

[dissonance]

Interesting topic. I think a greater problem will be surviving as a species long enough to reach a technological point where we might realistically grasp the requirements.

I always laugh when i hear NASA wants to go to the moon and beyond... errr... why? The ISS i can understand, its a useful low gravity research platform and probably worthy of the investment, but building a human base on the moon really serves no purpose... unless im missing something entirely. Why cut short the ISS lifecycle to persue that??

 

[JacobEvans]

I always laugh when i hear NASA wants to go to the moon and beyond... errr... why? The ISS i can understand, its a useful low gravity research platform and probably worthy of the investment, but building a human base on the moon really serves no purpose... unless im missing something entirely. Why cut short the ISS lifecycle to persue that??

It's to build that understanding of the issues we would face in colonizing another world. You have to start that testing somewhere.

 

[Sleazy]

Apples and oranges.
There was no fundamental theory which prohibited transmitting information faster than the speed of sound - there IS a fundamental theory which prohibits transmitting information faster than the speed of light. As has already been pointed out by others, in order to exceed the speed of light, our understanding of the universe must be fundamentally flawed.
i^2

I was comparing the fact that back then, it seemed impossible to speak to someone on the other side of the planet using only the information that they had available. They did not know about radio transmissions at the time.

For us to say that it's impossible is ridiculous. Maybe in another 200 years, we'll discover something that is currently unknown to us and learn how to manipulate it to move matter faster than light.

 

[Breakyerself]

No. Quantum entanglement cannot be used to transmit information without the presence of a standard (subluminal) communications channel between the two locations.

Why do they need subluminal communication to transmit information using entanglement? I've read plenty of articles on the potential of entanglement for secure communication, but I've never heard them say that it must be used in conjunction with traditional forms of communication.

 

[StevoDog21]

In and of itself, quatum entanglement can (apparently) have an instantaneous effect on something on the other side of the Universe, but it cannot transmit information. There is no way even in theory, that we yet know of, for information to be transmitted faster than light. This applies to "tachyons" too, even if they do exist, which is doubtful.

 

[e2iPi]

Why do they need subluminal communication to transmit information using entanglement? I've read plenty of articles on the potential of entanglement for secure communication, but I've never heard them say that it must be used in conjunction with traditional forms of communication.

Because the information coded in a qbit is dependent upon the correlations between the qbits. These correlations need to be communicated via traditional communications channels.

i^2

 

[ladiesman391]

Fibre optic cables? Can't we transmit information at the speed of light using fibre optics? This was unknown to be possible up until 1952...

 

[dissonance]

It's to build that understanding of the issues we would face in colonizing another world. You have to start that testing somewhere.

Absolutely. Im just not sure that we arent aiming a little too high, too soon.

It would be criminal IMO to scrap the potentially worthwhile research scope of the ISS for a pipedream that we might go colonising other planets. Todays technology is soo immature compared to what proper space travel would require that its like irresponsibly burning all our oil in V8 engines before we realise that we all should have been in small 4's.

Sure, lets aim for the interplanetary (interstellar?) dream... and even take the first baby steps onto that learning cuirve, but do it pragmatically. Tackle the problems as the technology develops and without shooting ourselves in the foot by being completely impatient and reaching too far too soon. Instead of thrashing current launch technology, lets investigate a better launch method. Instead of thrashing current CO2 recycling tech, lets investigate the next generation system. There is no need to go to the moon to explore that. It can be developed, tested and even proven in a lab.

Going to the moon is more about bicep flexing and ego than actually developing systems to achieve it realistically & responsibly.

IMO the $$ being mooted for these ventures could be spent much more wisely, but hey.

 

[TheDorian]

My opinion is that if the human race (or whatever we have evolved to by then) is to survive
then interstellar travel is inevitable...
It is a fact that our Sun will eventually die and at that time we will have to leave the solar system,
Faster than light travel might never be possible but I don't see that as a limiting factor,
my opinion is that generation ships will be the solution, not to colonize other stars, but
to live on permanently, the technological advancements needed for such an endeavour are great but
take into consideration the - up untill now at least - exponential growth of technology and knowledge.
Effective nuclear fusion is near and as soon as we have the energy problem out of the way the rest is just a
matter of time and effort, if of course we manage to leave our insignificant political and other disputes aside by then!!!
There are plenty resources in space for humanity to harvest in the long run,
then all we have to worry about is what will happen when those are depleted, but that is another very long term problem!

I may sound as if I watch a lot of science fiction, and I do! but if you think about it, it is logical to assume that
something like that is due to happen, unless a better solution is found!!!

 

[Demojen]

If the human race lives long enough, interstellar space will happen.
In the mean time, concentrate on improving this planet so that someday we have a chance for that to happen, eh?

There's more than can ever be imagined in the mind of man, amidst the stars.

 

[JacobEvans]

If the human race lives long enough, interstellar space will happen.
In the mean time, concentrate on improving this planet so that someday we have a chance for that to happen, eh?

There's more than can ever be imagined in the mind of man, amidst the stars.

The issue isn't whether we have the time to do human interstellar travel, it's a matter of if that's even physically possible!

 

[Demojen]

The issue isn't whether we have the time to do human interstellar travel, it's a matter of if that's even physically possible!

Hence my statement:

"There's more than can ever be imagined in the mind of man, amidst the stars."
Essentially I'm saying, we are not in a position to determine what is not physically possible for as long as we exist.

 

[borrofburi]

More importantly it very much is an issue of time, we know it's physically possible to travel, we've gone to the moon so we can leave our gravity well and enter into another. The issue is whether or not we're willing to put someone on a one way tip that will take 50 or 100 or thousands of years.

 

[JacobEvans]

Hence my statement:

"There's more than can ever be imagined in the mind of man, amidst the stars."
Essentially I'm saying, we are not in a position to determine what is not physically possible for as long as we exist.

So are you trying to poetically say "There is a great deal about the universe we don't yet know?"

And I don't exactly understand how your quoted phrase has anything to do with your second sentence.... In fact I can't even comprehend the second sentence at all.