Oh, England

[ahdkaw]

This is not a test of faith, or a political argument, or a cultural investigation. It's simply a little madness on my part.

I saw terrarisings blogTV last night again, and then coughlan666 turned up (which was very cool), and then dprjones (very cool too), but of course both coughlan and dpr were smoking, and that then forced me to smoke my last cigarette.

Now look at me, waiting on the rain to stop so I can go and get more ciggies without getting too wet. I am struggling with my brain which is calling for "More nicotine, you bastard!"

Ah nicotine addiction is such fun. Over ,£5 for a pack of 20 now. And the government wonder why there is now a thriving black market where once there was none. What a bunch of pricks.

Ok, so there is a touch of the political in this post, please forgive me.

 

[boonw]

Ah nicotine addiction is such fun. Over ,£5 for a pack of 20 now. And the government wonder why there is now a thriving black market where once there was none. What a bunch of pricks.

Anti smoking fascists visited my school, and in the same presentation they showed how much you would pay for cigarettes over a 40 year time at half a pack a day, and then say due to their selfless work they were able to triple the tax on cigarettes in under 25 years. Black market cigarettes are still a problem, but not nearly as bad where I live. People just buy their cigarettes at native reserves here in bulk so they can dodge taxes.

And to do the math, 5 pounds should be about 9 CDN or 7.50 US

 

[JerseyDagmar]

As much as I hate cigarettes, if someone wants to kill themselves by smoking them. So be it.

 

[GoodKat]

I'm fine with taxing cigarettes to pay for the problems they cause, but creating a black market is certainly going too far.

 

[ahdkaw]

As much as I hate cigarettes, if someone wants to kill themselves by smoking them. So be it.

Exactly, each to their own I say. I could be knocked over by a bus tomorrow so there is no guarantee that smoking will kill me.

The problem with the black market is that now you can get a hold of cigarettes that have been faked (not sure how - perhaps it's a government conspiracy to try and take a bite out of the black market).

But think about, which would you prefert to pay? ,£5.60 (or thereabouts) for a pack of 20, or ,£3.50 for a pack of 20 without a vile image on the pack?

 

[GoodKat]

without a vile image on the pack?

Hmm?

 

[ahdkaw]

Hmm?

Every packet of tobacco, be it rolling or pre-rolled, not only have a huge 'UK DUTY PAID' slapped on 'em, and a textual warning regarding health (can be any number of phrases), but now also have images of black lungs, throat cancer, dead people, etc., etc.

I kind of think it is vile, because to believe that smokers don't realise the harmful effects, and then to bombard them with related photo's, is nothing more than shock tactics. When I want to give up, I will, but no amount of visual bullshit will sway me.

Quick edit: This may end up turning into a "oh the stupid things about England" thread if I'm not careful...

 

[Lunar Sonata]

Smoking causes those things... but then again, what doesn't cause cancer these days?

Next thing you know they'll be telling us that air and food is toxic... oh wait.

 

[nasher168]

This may end up turning into a "oh the stupid things about England" thread if I'm not careful...

We're still not protected from flooding up here-so the events of summer 2007 could well happen again.
The current government has lost all credibility.
The BNP are getting much too powerful.
Everyone's going crazy about the European elections, when in reality they'll never affect us in any way whatsoever.
All the 225g bags of Minstrels seem to have vanished.
Jamie Oliver has a lot to answer for-my brother ate a whole lemon by his own choice!
Jade Goody is dead and everyone is wailing over it but I don't give a shit and I bet no one else does, really. Good riddance, I say.
Britain's got Talent is on again. I hate these bloody competition shows.
Segregated faith schools are looked upon favourably by the government.

I'm sure there are others...

 

[ahdkaw]

We're still not protected from flooding up here-so the events of summer 2007 could well happen again.
The current government has lost all credibility.
The BNP are getting much too powerful.
Everyone's going crazy about the European elections, when in reality they'll never affect us in any way whatsoever.
All the 225g bags of Minstrels seem to have vanished.
Jamie Oliver has a lot to answer for-my brother ate a whole lemon by his own choice!
Jade Goody is dead and everyone is wailing over it but I don't give a shit and I bet no one else does, really. Good riddance, I say.
Britain's got Talent is on again. I hate these bloody competition shows.
Segregated faith schools are looked upon favourably by the government.

I'm sure there are others...

That's quite a lot there, and yes, there are definitely others.

RE: Flooding - The best the UK can do in flood prevention is to provide a freephone number to call.
RE: Credibility - They were never credible.
RE: BNP - I hate those racist bastards, but they might be useful in giving non-voters a kick up the arse.
RE: EuroElect - I believe in the EU more than the UK.
RE: Minstrels - I hadn't noticed them disappear from the shelves.
RE: J Oliver - He at least tries to do something, bless.
RE: J Goody - A racist dies, a country mourns.
RE: TV - Turn it off!
RE: Faith schools - They're a national disgrace.

The IPCC is not independent at all, they often share the same office space with the police.
Taxes are way too high.

I'm sure I'll think of more as soon as I hit Submit.

 

[Squagnut]

Every packet of tobacco, be it rolling or pre-rolled, not only have a huge 'UK DUTY PAID' slapped on 'em, and a textual warning regarding health (can be any number of phrases), but now also have images of black lungs, throat cancer, dead people, etc., etc.

Thing is, these warnings don't work half as well as some less alarmist slogans would. They should get rid of all the Smoking Kills, Smoking Causes Fatal Cancer, etc., slogans and put in place ones like: Smoking Costs Loads And It Makes You Smell, and things like that. Nobody minds dying but nobody wants to smell.

 

[boonw]

Thing is, these warnings don't work half as well as some less alarmist slogans would. They should get rid of all the Smoking Kills, Smoking Causes Fatal Cancer, etc., slogans and put in place ones like: Smoking Costs Loads And It Makes You Smell, and things like that. Nobody minds dying but nobody wants to smell.

How about "Hitler liked to smoke. You dont want to be like Hitler do you?"

 

[ahdkaw]

How about "Hitler liked to smoke. You dont want to be like Hitler do you?"

Lol, they should have that warning on moustaches and vegetarians too.

 

[nasher168]

Minstrels - I hadn't noticed them disappear from the shelves

Heretic! Minstrels are everything! Particularly the 225g bags!

 

[Th1sWasATriumph]

I kind of think it is vile, because to believe that smokers don't realise the harmful effects, and then to bombard them with related photo's, is nothing more than shock tactics. When I want to give up, I will, but no amount of visual bullshit will sway me.

By "visual bullshit" you presumably mean "proof of what smoking can and does do"? Seems fair enough to me. People didn't used to see there was a problem, now we know there is, if people are going to willingly buy a product proven to do all kinds of unfun stuff then why would they mind some graphic images?

Nowt wrong with shock tactics when the end result is "stop people smoking carcinogenic poles."

 

[ahdkaw]

By "visual bullshit" you presumably mean "proof of what smoking can and does do"? Seems fair enough to me. People didn't used to see there was a problem, now we know there is, if people are going to willingly buy a product proven to do all kinds of unfun stuff then why would they mind some graphic images?

Nowt wrong with shock tactics when the end result is "stop people smoking carcinogenic poles."

Should I assume this argument is coming from a non-smoker?

I will have to gracefully disagree with you. But I shall take it no further tonight as I'm far too tired for any serious debate.

 

[Th1sWasATriumph]

Should I assume this argument is coming from a non-smoker?
I will have to gracefully disagree with you. But I shall take it no further tonight as I'm far too tired for any serious debate.

Yes, I do not smoke. I don't see how that actually affects how smoking is known to damage people.

Whilst hardcore smokers may be fully aware of the beating they're giving themselves and therefore righteously indignant at having "YOU WILL SOON BE DEAD" stickers on their boxes, new smokers - mainly young smokers - might not be so aware. If you have to show kids their own tarry lungs to stop them smoking, or sensationalist adverts, so be it.

Do you disagree with adverts that try to get people to drink less, or drive safely, or pay attention when crossing the road? Smoking is a verified health risk, and should be advertised as such if people are intent on doing it.

 

[ahdkaw]

Okay, so then Guns and Bullets should have grotesque images on them too then? Because they are clearly shown to cause death and injury. Or should we go into school and show shocking images of dead bodies to show them that guns are bad, mkay?

Or howabout cars? Planes? Faulty parachutes?

 

[Th1sWasATriumph]

Okay, so then Guns and Bullets should have grotesque images on them too then? Because they are clearly shown to cause death and injury. Or should we go into school and show shocking images of dead bodies to show them that guns are bad, mkay?

The thing is, a gun is an object with a very particular purpose. The purpose and the consequence are basically the same thing - to damage, destroy or kill a target. Most people are very aware of what guns are for, and of course gun safety - at least at responsible places where I used to shoot - is pretty rigorously taught. Even without gun safety, people know what guns DO. In my experience, guns do in fact come with explicit instructions - "always treat as if loaded" is one fairly constant one. You also have to have a license, although obviously this is hardly a stringent measure.

The same could not be applied to cigarettes or cigars or cigarillos. The function of a cigarette and the consequence of a cigarette are different, and fewer people are aware of the consequences of smoking than are aware of the consequences of pointing guns at stuff - especially young people who smoke for reasons of social inclusion/acceptance, or children whose parents are smokers. Graphic images or stern warnings that "SMOKING WILL MAKE YOUR UNBORN CHILD FALL OUT" are surely the equivalent of "treat this gun as if it's loaded".

Let's digress a moment and compare guns and cigarettes in popular culture. The effect of guns is well documented in movies and television. Guns make things die and blow up. Guns are inarguably a tool of violence and mayhem. The cause and effect is clear. But smoking? Smoking seldom gives away its potential side effects. Smoking, in movies and television, is merely an action to be performed that imbues the smoker with an aura, a mystique, a sense of relaxation and suavity. The risks involved are only occasionally hinted at and almost never the focus of the narrative. It's only recently that adverts for cigars and cigarettes were taken off air in Britain; yet we've had hundreds of years to work out that guns kill stuff. They are unevenly represented in popular culture, and warning signs are an attempt to redress this balance.

Or howabout cars?

I do believe we have a whole battery of measures in place to ensure that people who drive cars can do so safely. Driving tests, license etc.

Planes?

Tests for pilots are probably far more rigorous than tests for car drivers. And planes, like most or all public transport, are outfitted with safety advice and equipment, and you are encouraged to familiarise yourself with them upon boarding.

Faulty parachutes?

Well, then you may as well extend the logic to anything that could or might break, which is damn near everything. The fact is that safety measures are more or less ubiquitous in most societies. Why would you be unhappy that they apply to smoking when they apply to cars, planes and guns?

 

[philebus]

Well, I work in the NHS, so my point is that the self inflicted damage from smoking costs the Health Service a whole lot of money to treat.

I'm certainly not of the school that says they should not receive treatment - but the extra tax they pay on smoking might help to some small degree towards the extra costs they create for the rest of us tax payers.

And for the record, while the black market has grown over recent years, I can't remember a time when it hasn't been there. I remember friends' parents buying black market cigs when I was still at school.