Noah's Ark has been found with high probability on Mount Ararat

rationalist

New Member
Noah's Ark has been found with high probability on Mount Ararat

https://reasonandscience.catsboard....n-found-with-high-probability-on-mount-ararat

The NAMI expedition
Claims that the archeological site investigated by NAMI, is a fraud

Answers to the claim that the site is a fraud:
Expedition of Philip Williams
The Dutch expeditions
The pottery and miscellaneous artifacts found on the site on Mount Ararat
Pitch, evidence of the Ark found
The case of Joel Klenck
Miscellaneous links
The wooden structure at Mount Ararat
Lecture of Randall W. Younker Ph.D

Genesis 6:13So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress[c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15
Genesis 8:3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down, 4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.

Matthew 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

1 Peter 3:20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also

- Gilbert H. Grosvenor, Editor, National Geographic Magazine
“If the ark of Noah is ever found, it will be the greatest archaeological discovery in history and the greatest event since the Resurrection of Christ; and it will alter all the currents of scientific thought.”

Many remember the news ten years ago. Noah's Ark Ministries International (NAMI), mostly a Chinese team, did make an expedition to Mount Ararat back in 2009 and reached the remains of a large wooden structure at a 13,500-ft. elevation ( 4100 mts ) and dated it as 4,800 years old, claiming that it was with high certainty Noah’s Ark. It seemed almost too good to be true. This would be the most amazing archaeological discovery, and enormously back up the biblical story of Noah's flood, and give credence to the biblical account in genesis.

Randall W. Younker Ph.D. Professor of Archaeology and History of Antiquity Director, (Biblical and Ancient Near Eastern Archaeology)
I think this discovery could be very important. I had not paid much attention to it before--indeed, was skeptical. But since I have been looking into it more, studying the images and talking to a number of people involved--including two people I know and trust who have actually been to the site, I am convinced it is not a recent fraud or fake--it has been up there for some time--so it is a legitimate archaeological site. As such, it deserves a careful study--if possible.

Starting at 41:50, Randall W. Younker talks about the recent expedition by Philip Williams.

Soon after the news was announced to the world, in 2010, the controversy started. The major Young Earth Creation ministries rejected the finding as a staged hoax, perpetrated by Kurdish workers hired by a Turkish guide, who planted large wood beams taken from an old structure near the Black Sea at the cave site ". I went with the opinion of the YEC ministries, as I thought they were trustworthy authorities on the matter, and did not investigate any further, and lost any expectation, that the ark would ever be found.

Recently, I met Philip Williams on Facebook and learned that he did visit the site at Mount Ararat, in Turkey, in 2014. He did send me a link of the videos of his expedition:

First American Visit to the Mount Ararat Discovery

Second Deck Noah's Ark

Abductive reasoning is the right approach in regards to historical sciences. People that think the site is not Noah's ark, have as well the burden of proof, to refute the site beyond a reasonable doubt, by providing BETTER alternative explanations of what the construction is, and how it got up there to a height of 13800 ft. ( 4100 mts ) I have not seen any of the claimers that the structure is a film-set proving their assertions. Empirical proofs, like photos, videos of the camp near the entrance, the wood being prepared and being brought up to the mountain, pitch being applied to the wooden wall, that would count as empirical evidence to substantiate a hoax-claim. Hearsay, letters that can be the product of forgers, personal attacks, empty accusations are not evidence.

This is the movie about the expedition of the NAMI team, in 2010:

The Days of Noah 2 - Apocalypse (deutsche UT)


This is the best footage of the Chinese expedition:
Noahs Ark found in Turkey 7 Spaces were Discovered 探索隊新考據,七度空間曝光
May 6, 2010

The Hoax accusation was endorsed and supported by major YEC ministries, like Creation.com:
The ‘Hong Kong ark’ fiasco
https://creation.com/hong-kong-ark-...bmqIyKN39tiNHB8_sMH0NijkmHxXTEEoc1ZUOi48A7l-A

Convinced that the discovery is not a hoax, Philip Williams did respond to the accusations of Don Patton and Randall Price:

A Response to Randall Price
http://arkapology.com/a-response-to...lsig598Ta_XqbheoUfEfulIp4taKyLte20Y0rLjZWkkX4

After reading and listening to both sides, it can be concluded that Don Patton's version does not provide compelling reasons.

The NAMI team that visited the site on mount Ararat in 2010 did report seven different chambers. The amount of wood, huge curved walls is hard to estimate. Philip Williams did enter the site in 2014 at an entrance that was uncovered in 2011. I did analyze his video footage, and took a screenshot of every new sequence, showing different kinds of wooden planks with different sections, cuts, and different sizes. I did catalogize at least 150 different planks, including massive wood stairs carved from massive wood trunks. All buried deep below volcanic rocks and Ice. Wood, that looks very old. The structure is massive. Even if pictures don't do justice to fathom the size of the site and construction, it can be seen that the wooden walls are huge and massive.

Many pictures show spider webs, and at the NAMI movie, a living spider crawling around. The spider webbing was referred to as proof that the structure is a hoax actually proves it is not.
There are no problems with spiders in such high altitudes: Zoogeography of Arachnida 2018, page 866 Concerning the mountains of Eurasia, the high-altitude spiders are relatively well-known (Pyrenees, Alps, Pirin, and other Bulgarian mountains, Caucasus, and the Himalayas). As a model for comparison, we use the most numerous and varied family in all high mountains – Linyphiidae (Erigoninae included). Over 2200 m in separate mountain systems, the following genera, and species of Linyphiidae are represented: Pyrenees – 39 genera, 65 species Alps – 44 genera, 101 species Rila – Pirin – Vitosha – Stara planina – 30 genera, 55 species Caucasus – 51 genera, 84 species Himalayas – 21 genera, 52 species
 

he_who_is_nobody

Active Member
Abductive reasoning is the right approach in regards to historical sciences. People that think the site is not Noah's ark, have as well the burden of proof, to refute the site beyond a reasonable doubt, by providing BETTER alternative explanations of what the construction is, and how it got up there to a height of 13800 ft. ( 4100 mts ) I have not seen any of the claimers that the structure is a film-set proving their assertions. Empirical proofs, like photos, videos of the camp near the entrance, the wood being prepared and being brought up to the mountain, pitch being applied to the wooden wall, that would count as empirical evidence to substantiate a hoax-claim. Hearsay, letters that can be the product of forgers, personal attacks, empty accusations are not evidence.
Not true. The ball is still in the court of the person making a claim. Video is not enough, and tales from people is also not enough. They need to conduct an archaeological excavation of this site, map it, and take samples for testing. Once that is done, the results should be published. Or at the very least, presented on at an archaeological meeting. If there were something to this, and not just more empty claims, than there would be at least a scientific article about this. Before these necessary steps are done, "I do not know what it is" is a far better answer than jumping to Noah's Ark.
 

nswoll

New Member
So sometime in the distant past a large structure was on Mt Ararat. A few ancient people knew about this structure so they tied it into the Noah's Ark myth when telling the story. Ok, fine, that happens all the time.

How does this in any way prove a global flood (which we absolutely know for a fact didn't happen), 2 of every "kind" of animal (which we absolutely know for a fact didn't happen), the human race reduced to 8 people (which we know didn't happen), etc.?
 

he_who_is_nobody

Active Member
What you are asking is under way. But the information of the op is enough to come to an informed conclusion.
And that informed conclusion should be, "Neat. We need way more information before anyone can conclude this is anything like Noah's Ark." As of right now, what nswoll pointed out above is far more likely based on what you presented in the OP.
 
Not true. The ball is still in the court of the person making a claim. Video is not enough, and tales from people is also not enough. They need to conduct an archaeological excavation of this site, map it, and take samples for testing. Once that is done, the results should be published. Or at the very least, presented on at an archaeological meeting. If there were something to this, and not just more empty claims, than there would be at least a scientific article about this. Before these necessary steps are done, "I do not know what it is" is a far better answer than jumping to Noah's Ark.
Yes this.
 

DanDare

New Member
Data required:
Is the wood arranged to be a water tight vessel with no "foundation" on the ground?
What size was the artifact?
Has it ever been immersed in ocean waters? If so what is the pattern of the immersion?
Is there an accumulation of mixed species of animal droppings, especially those from distant places not found here?
Are there the remains of animals that are never found here?
What are the signs of human habitation? Food preparation and storage? Latrines? Wardrobes and beds? Clothing remains? Tools?

What are all the conclusions that can be reached from the data about what the structure is, why it was built, who inhabited it, how many?

Once all that has been gathered, and more, come back to discuss it. Presently there is no evidence that we are dealing with an ark, Noah's or otherwise.
 

rationalist

New Member
Is there an accumulation of mixed species of animal droppings, /// the structure has three floors/levels, and the lowest indeed contain droppings. It made it difficult to breathe, because of the smell.
A scientific investigation is under way.
 
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