Need a few bible quotes please

[TheBookOfJoe]

Can anyone provide me with a few bible quotes about how its wrong to foretell the future, or see it in dreams or something like that. Its been bugging me for years, my mother thinks she predicted 9/11 and many other things in her dreams, I'd like to shut her up with her own Bible.

If you don't have the specific quotes, what sites might provide something similar?

Thanks a lot

 

[Whisperelmwood]

You'll have to check the actual wording of these, of course, but here's a few:

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

 

[GoodKat]

Can anyone provide me with a few bible quotes about how its wrong to foretell the future, or see it in dreams or something like that. Its been bugging me for years, my mother thinks she predicted 9/11 and many other things in her dreams, I'd like to shut her up with her own Bible.

If you don't have the specific quotes, what sites might provide something similar?

Thanks a lot

It won't work,you will be interpreting the passages incorrectly, or using the wrong translation, or not being spoken to by the holy spirit, or....

 

[Saladin]

You'll have to check the actual wording of these, of course, but here's a few:

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

Hate to burst your bubble, but those quotes refer to people who practice magic, as well as false prophets and ones who follow foreign gods. They would only apply to TheBookOfJoe's mother if she was was using magic or lying about having a vision to lure people away from God.

 

[GoodKat]

Hate to burst your bubble, but those quotes refer to people who practice magic, as well as false prophets and ones who follow foreign gods. They would only apply to TheBookOfJoe's mother if she was was using magic or lying about having a vision to lure people away from God.

Told you.

 

[Aught3]

lol, the prophet GoodKat!

 

[Saladin]

Told you.

Have you actually read the passages quoted? There aren't any subtleties of meaning or archaic language to parse, it's all pretty straightforward.

GoodKat, when you get something wrong, and you know that you're wrong, simply saying "they'll say I was wrong" won't make you right.

 

[GoodKat]

Have you actually read the passages quoted? There aren't any subtleties of meaning or archaic language to parse, it's all pretty straightforward.

GoodKat, when you get something wrong, and you know that you're wrong, simply saying "they'll say I was wrong" won't make you right.

I never said it did, I just said it wouldn't work on her. I never even commented on the validity of using them.

 

[Saladin]

Nice backpedal dude.

 

[GoodKat]

Nice backpedal dude.

You can call it that if it makes you feel better.

 

[King Tyrant Lizard]

As an impartial observer, I think I can proclaim that Saladin did get the better of you in this one, GoodKat. Best to look to the future, now, for hope to someday even the score.

 

[ebbixx]

Have you actually read the passages quoted? There aren't any subtleties of meaning or archaic language to parse, it's all pretty straightforward.

Those passages were written originally in Modern English? How cool is that? God must exist.

I take it you haven't studied rabbinic tradition if you can say there are no subtleties in those passages. And you might be surprised how much gets lost in translation, even though I tend to agree with your interpretation here, in the broadest sense.

Then again I'm not going to waste time reading the entire context, since in most Christian tradition, most of the opposition to fortune telling and amateur prophesy tends to come down from Church Fathers and purveyors of dogma who aren't necessarily basing their opposition on specific scripture as much as they are trying to preserve a clerical monopoly on just who gets to get talked to by God.

 

[TheBookOfJoe]

Hate to burst your bubble, but those quotes refer to people who practice magic, as well as false prophets and ones who follow foreign gods. They would only apply to TheBookOfJoe's mother if she was was using magic or lying about having a vision to lure people away from God.

The first quote was good, the second was ok, the third would never work for exactly the same reason stated above.

Anyone else here have any more quotes?

 

[Saladin]

Those passages were written originally in Modern English? How cool is that? God must exist.

I take it you haven't studied rabbinic tradition if you can say there are no subtleties in those passages. And you might be surprised how much gets lost in translation, even though I tend to agree with your interpretation here, in the broadest sense.

I never said that these passages were never translated, and I don't know how you would jump from that to God existing. I take it that you just want to show off your knowledge of Jewish theology. Well, enlighten me. What is the history behind these passages? I love to learn.

Then again I'm not going to waste time reading the entire context, since in most Christian tradition, most of the opposition to fortune telling and amateur prophesy tends to come down from Church Fathers and purveyors of dogma who aren't necessarily basing their opposition on specific scripture as much as they are trying to preserve a clerical monopoly on just who gets to get talked to by God.

Can't any religious authority do something because they believe it is right and not because they're trying to control the world? Honestly, the way some people talk about the more important people in religion reminds me of Icke talking about his Reptoids.

 

[King Tyrant Lizard]

[blatant sarcasm]Dude, don't you know that ever single action every taken by the Church hierarchy is a ruse to brainwash and enslave the human race? Every, single, move. Relgious people exist in only two varieties: controller and slave. Everyone knows that![/blatent sarcasm]

 

[ebbixx]

I never said that these passages were never translated, and I don't know how you would jump from that to God existing. I take it that you just want to show off your knowledge of Jewish theology. Well, enlighten me. What is the history behind these passages? I love to learn.

My point was that, had the Torah and related Jewish scriptures been written in modern English, at a time when Modern English did not even exist, that would be pretty good evidence for the existence of a Deity. And yet, even if they had been written in Modern English originally, there would still be the potential for ambiguity and multiple interpretations.

I don't have the time to dig my volumes of the Babylonian Talmud and other interpretive texts and sources of midrash out of storage where they've been for about 5 years or so, and if I did I'd only be giving you one interpretation anyway. Also, my knowledge of Aramaic was never that great, and has only atrophied in recent years. I'm not the one to ask.

My point about rabbinic tradition was, if you were to ask 7 rabbis from each of the major branches of Judaism to offer views on the passages in question I expect you might well get 7 very different interpretations of those passages. And the rabbis would probably be okay with that, with the possible exception of one or two "orthodox" rabbis, though I expect even they would offer different angles on things that might be surprising, particularly to a certain brand of literalist Christian.

Can't any religious authority do something because they believe it is right and not because they're trying to control the world?

Can't they do both?

I'm quite prepared to accept that some, even many religious authorities (your word choice not mine) may have acted largely on the basis of their learned sense of right and wrong. Doing so does not exclude the potential that their acts also served to validate and preserve a hierarchical organization that extracts resources from the ordinary believers, preys on the fears and insecurities of individuals and groups, and fosters many other kinds of injustice, coercion and emotional abuse. Churches, even the most innocuous ones, have material needs, to build worship halls, to train clerics, to maintain contact with and services to the faithful.

Usually, for any human, dealing with mundane material needs distorts things and may alter priorities at times where the sustenance of the organization and its leaders comes to overshadow the abstract, feel-good messages they are trying to purvey in an attempt to make their members feel better, and maintain allegiances among them to the the human institution of the church, as opposed to any core principles that might have come from a divine source.

Certainly I've known contemporary priests, rabbis and other religious people (as well as historical figures from the history of religion) who feel that to be the case at least as strongly as I do.

 

[King Tyrant Lizard]

Why do you have to be so tacky in your hatred of christianity? The simple reality is that most clergymen genuinely believe both in the dogma of their religions and their social messages of goodwill. Most of them are genuinely kind, well meaning people who's prime motivation is to "do good". Saying that it is otherwise is simply wrong and unfair.

Getting a bit anecdotal; every single clergyman, every deacon, priest, pastor, and minister I've met was friendly, helpful, and well intentioned. I've lived in the north, south, east, and west of these fine United States, so I've met a variety of such men from all kinds of denominations. No matter how annoying or even repugnant anyone may find any aspect of their religion, it simply isn't a cabal to conquer the planet and do anything at all "evil" or even "mean".

Now, don't get me wrong, just because all of this is totally true, doesn't mean you can't still hate them. I certainly do. However, you have to be honest about who they are and why you are opposed to them. Claiming to be opposed to them because of any of those things you describe would be like claiming you are opposed to GLAAD because they want to ban gay marriage. I know my reasons for loathing christianity and christians, they are perfectly sufficient to satisfy my intelligence and reasoning. Do you know yours?

 

[ebbixx]

I never said I hated them. But then I'd expect you to try to distort what I was saying, considering your other posts here. This will be my last response to you.

 

[King Tyrant Lizard]

So, I notice you don't directly contradict any of the material points I've made. I guess that means you agree with my conclusions, eh?

Now we are starting to see reason.

 

[Saladin]

I don't have the time to dig my volumes of the Babylonian Talmud and other interpretive texts and sources of midrash out of storage where they've been for about 5 years or so, and if I did I'd only be giving you one interpretation anyway. Also, my knowledge of Aramaic was never that great, and has only atrophied in recent years. I'm not the one to ask.

My point about rabbinic tradition was, if you were to ask 7 rabbis from each of the major branches of Judaism to offer views on the passages in question I expect you might well get 7 very different interpretations of those passages. And the rabbis would probably be okay with that, with the possible exception of one or two "orthodox" rabbis, though I expect even they would offer different angles on things that might be surprising, particularly to a certain brand of literalist Christian.

I understand.

Can't they do both?

I'm quite prepared to accept that some, even many religious authorities (your word choice not mine) may have acted largely on the basis of their learned sense of right and wrong. Doing so does not exclude the potential that their acts also served to validate and preserve a hierarchical organization that extracts resources from the ordinary believers, preys on the fears and insecurities of individuals and groups, and fosters many other kinds of injustice, coercion and emotional abuse. Churches, even the most innocuous ones, have material needs, to build worship halls, to train clerics, to maintain contact with and services to the faithful.

Usually, for any human, dealing with mundane material needs distorts things and may alter priorities at times where the sustenance of the organization and its leaders comes to overshadow the abstract, feel-good messages they are trying to purvey in an attempt to make their members feel better, and maintain allegiances among them to the the human institution of the church, as opposed to any core principles that might have come from a divine source.

Certainly I've known contemporary priests, rabbis and other religious people (as well as historical figures from the history of religion) who feel that to be the case at least as strongly as I do.

I'm not sure that a lot of religious people would frame their thoughts using those exact words. Trying to keep the group or congregation together and "spreading the word" aren't sinister or hypocritical acts as you seem to be suggesting with some of your more questionable phrases.