Nesslig20
Active Member
Recently, a youtuber called G Man made this challenge:
Before I go into this, I will tackle some of the mistakes that G Man makes and a few problems that I have in the 2 minute video challenge.
First: Yes, cells are indeed complex. Much more complex than G Man would probably be aware of. But we have to know what we mean by that word. In a general sense, complexity is merely a statement that we make about something that is difficult to understand how it works. If you realize this, it comes easy to understand that the assumption of complexity as a sign of design is completely fallacious. When creationists say:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115504433824440217363/posts/LWdzMbGwDXD
Natural (non-random) processes have no problem creating complex things. Examples are snowflakes, crystals or any complex atomically arrangement that spontaneously form are very common in nature. These are examples of phenomenon known as “emergent complexity” or just “emergence”.
Second: G Man asks two questions in one sentence:
Third: I was rather surprised when G Man implies that he wants to learn. Usually he just shuts off when someone explains something to him that conflicts with his beliefs. However, he later says he wants a video as an answer that is less than 10 minutes, because…..that way….he can give the most thorough response. Notice what he did there? This strongly implies that he has already decided to disagree with any answer he will get. If he really wanted to learn, he should have said that he wants to have an answer in less than 10 minutes because it is easier for him to learn and understand the answer, not it is easier for him to respond. A strong indication that G Man doesn’t really want to learn from the answers that are given to him.
Now, we get to the origins (not the evolution) of the cell. It depends on what he means by it though. I he means the cells as the origins of life, then this video would be a great summary (which is roughly 10 minutes).
However, specifically a cell refers to the structure of a double lipid membrane that separates the interior from the exterior environment. You can have nucleic acids, peptides and carbohydrates without a cell, but you can have a cell (or proto cell) without any of these. Lipids are the main requirement for such a structure. Surprisingly, getting a proto-cells is relatively easy. You can do it yourself with water and a few drops of oil (which are basically lipids). Because of how one end of a lipid is hydrophobic and the rest is hydrophilic, the lipids will automatically arrange themselves in complex structures due to these molecular interactions.
This is another example of emergent complexity. Micelles are usually the first structures to be formed (see picture above), but if there are enough of these structures, multiple micelles can combines to form long bilayer sheets, which in turn can fold into a liposome (See animation between 0:41 and 1:17 minutes below with explanation and awesome interview)
This is not just a mere cartoon, this happens with fatty acids in water and this is pretty much how the phospholipids of our cell membrane works. And a liposome is more important than it may seem. Such a structure can take up small building blocks inside it, let them react to form larger more complex molecules, and keep them inside since these larger molecules cannot escape. In order words, such vesicles promote the formation of more complex chemistry.
The discussion in the video is an interview with a researcher about his publication Mansy, Sheref S., et al. "Template-directed synthesis of a genetic polymer in a model protocell." Nature 454.7200 (2008): 122-125.
In another study: Hanczyc, M.M., S.M. Fujikawa, and J.W. Szostak. 2003. Experimental models of primitive cellular compartments: Encapsulation, growth, and division. Science 302(Oct. 24):618–622. They showed that these vesicles can perform some nifty things like taking up RNA molecules from the environment, concentrating them inside.
And he published allot more papers on the topic of abiogenesis than just this.
Source of the animation
Before I go into this, I will tackle some of the mistakes that G Man makes and a few problems that I have in the 2 minute video challenge.
First: Yes, cells are indeed complex. Much more complex than G Man would probably be aware of. But we have to know what we mean by that word. In a general sense, complexity is merely a statement that we make about something that is difficult to understand how it works. If you realize this, it comes easy to understand that the assumption of complexity as a sign of design is completely fallacious. When creationists say:
What they essentially are saying is…
Any argument that appeals to complexity is pretty much always an appeal to personal incredulity. Another reason for the invalidity of this argument is that complexity is often not associated with design, rather simplicity is. As one commenter under G Man’s video said:
I have made these points before too:jon f. mcdropout said:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115504433824440217363/posts/LWdzMbGwDXD
Natural (non-random) processes have no problem creating complex things. Examples are snowflakes, crystals or any complex atomically arrangement that spontaneously form are very common in nature. These are examples of phenomenon known as “emergent complexity” or just “emergence”.
Second: G Man asks two questions in one sentence:
Evolution isn’t random, which has been explained to him countless times before. He just won’t listen when he is being corrected. Also, evolution doesn’t create a cell. Evolution is a process that involves population genetics, and varying allele frequencies. Cells aren’t the product of that process, they are the result of chemistry. G Man mentions “chemical evolution” which is a misnomer since this isn’t how the word evolution is used in science.
Third: I was rather surprised when G Man implies that he wants to learn. Usually he just shuts off when someone explains something to him that conflicts with his beliefs. However, he later says he wants a video as an answer that is less than 10 minutes, because…..that way….he can give the most thorough response. Notice what he did there? This strongly implies that he has already decided to disagree with any answer he will get. If he really wanted to learn, he should have said that he wants to have an answer in less than 10 minutes because it is easier for him to learn and understand the answer, not it is easier for him to respond. A strong indication that G Man doesn’t really want to learn from the answers that are given to him.
Now, we get to the origins (not the evolution) of the cell. It depends on what he means by it though. I he means the cells as the origins of life, then this video would be a great summary (which is roughly 10 minutes).
However, specifically a cell refers to the structure of a double lipid membrane that separates the interior from the exterior environment. You can have nucleic acids, peptides and carbohydrates without a cell, but you can have a cell (or proto cell) without any of these. Lipids are the main requirement for such a structure. Surprisingly, getting a proto-cells is relatively easy. You can do it yourself with water and a few drops of oil (which are basically lipids). Because of how one end of a lipid is hydrophobic and the rest is hydrophilic, the lipids will automatically arrange themselves in complex structures due to these molecular interactions.
This is another example of emergent complexity. Micelles are usually the first structures to be formed (see picture above), but if there are enough of these structures, multiple micelles can combines to form long bilayer sheets, which in turn can fold into a liposome (See animation between 0:41 and 1:17 minutes below with explanation and awesome interview)
This is not just a mere cartoon, this happens with fatty acids in water and this is pretty much how the phospholipids of our cell membrane works. And a liposome is more important than it may seem. Such a structure can take up small building blocks inside it, let them react to form larger more complex molecules, and keep them inside since these larger molecules cannot escape. In order words, such vesicles promote the formation of more complex chemistry.
The discussion in the video is an interview with a researcher about his publication Mansy, Sheref S., et al. "Template-directed synthesis of a genetic polymer in a model protocell." Nature 454.7200 (2008): 122-125.
In another study: Hanczyc, M.M., S.M. Fujikawa, and J.W. Szostak. 2003. Experimental models of primitive cellular compartments: Encapsulation, growth, and division. Science 302(Oct. 24):618–622. They showed that these vesicles can perform some nifty things like taking up RNA molecules from the environment, concentrating them inside.
And he published allot more papers on the topic of abiogenesis than just this.
Source of the animation
