Mutl-Language Speakers

[Yfelsung]

I think this counts as a "Culture" post, but if I'm wrong any mod can move this wherever they see fit.

Anyway, I want to learn a 2nd (and eventually 3rd, 4th etc) language. I feel knowing only a single language makes me fairly culturally ignorant considering the vast majority of the civilized world has at least a working understanding of English along with their own native tongue.

Now, since English is part of the West German language family, I figure learning another West German language would be easiest to start with.

The problem I'm having is every resource I've found seems very inefficient at teaching the language. I'm a guy that picks up stuff pretty easy but I find languages just not "sticking" when I use stuff like MP3 lessons.

So, for those who do know multiple languages, and specifically native English speakers who learned a second language, what was the best method you found?

 

[calvinhobbesliker]

I think this counts as a "Culture" post, but if I'm wrong any mod can move this wherever they see fit.

Anyway, I want to learn a 2nd (and eventually 3rd, 4th etc) language. I feel knowing only a single language makes me fairly culturally ignorant considering the vast majority of the civilized world has at least a working understanding of English along with their own native tongue.

Now, since English is part of the West German language family, I figure learning another West German language would be easiest to start with.

The problem I'm having is every resource I've found seems very inefficient at teaching the language. I'm a guy that picks up stuff pretty easy but I find languages just not "sticking" when I use stuff like MP3 lessons.

So, for those who do know multiple languages, and specifically native English speakers who learned a second language, what was the best method you found?

The method I'm using is to take a class in that language.

 

[Doc.]

Well it pretty much went by itself for me. I speak my native language-Georgian (which is not similar to any other language), Russian and I'll let you guess the third one.

Most of the stuff on TV back in my childhood was in Russian so I picked it up from there, I've learned reading in some magical way by myself and books did the rest, my mother helped me with this part. As for English, well I've studied it since I was nine or something, there's a network of International House English learning places, they teach it in groups and it was pretty fun, then I've continued with a private teacher which made me translate some really really f***ed up texts, and finally the net (I'm here now). I'm going to start French next year, however I'm not very good at this as some are, I've developed language when I was 2+ years old.

Long story short, study in groups is the best.

 

[Yfelsung]

Interesting, I would have assumed Georgian to be a Slavic language, but apparently it's the most spoken Kartvelian language, of which there aren't many.

Kind of like Finnish is a sense. Most people would probably assume Finnish is Slavic or Germanic by location, but it's part of a very small family of languages called the Uralic languages.

 

[Doc.]

Interesting, I would have assumed Georgian to be a Slavic language, but apparently it's the most spoken Kartvelian language, of which there aren't many.

Correct, just three, including Georgian (Kartvelian). and well, only few thousands speak the other two anyway.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

People say that Dutch is the easiest to learn for English speakers, although I find Swedish more intuitive. (Arabic and Korean are said to be the hardest.)

The problem, of course, is that there is effectively no demand for people bi-lingual in these languages, so if you want to learn something that will help you get a job... I'd recomend any of several East or Central Asian languages, with Farsi toping the list.

 

[Yfelsung]

Being Canadian, French would be my best choice to expand job opportunities. I have a minor understanding of it thanks to woefully inadequate mandatory French classes but the teaching method was never very good in Ontario for learning French. I don't think I know a single person who picked up a working understanding of the language even after 9 years of classes.

 

[Your Funny Uncle]

Now, since English is part of the West German language family, I figure learning another West German language would be easiest to start with.

This is not necessarily the case. English has similarities to Germanic languages in terms of basic vocabulary but when it comes to more advanced vocab and indeed grammar it often has more in common with Latin languages. Basically English is a complete mongrel of a language...

In terms of the best way to learn, I'd say take classes to get up to a certain level. You really do need to understand the basics of sentence structure, pronunciation and conjugation of verbs in present, past and future tenses in order to progress.

After that it's a question of practice. In my experience talking to native speakers on a regular basis is the best way to go, so if you know someone who's prepared to spend time talking to you in your chosen language, that can help a lot. I speak Spanish and French to degree level, and I learned most of my French while visiting French friends as a teenager. Similarly my Spanish took off through practising with my Mexican wife. The key is not to worry too much about making mistakes at first, but to concentrate on being understood, and not falling back on English if you can help it. Just accept that you will be corrected as par for the course and absorb the corrections as you go.

Besides that, you can try reading books, watching films or listening to songs recorded in your chosen language, all of which can help expand your vocabulary and understanding.

 

[Krazyskooter]

My ex from a few years back is hearing impaired, I picked up american sign language pretty quick, but a new language is something you have to continue to use, after we broke up and i wasn't using the signs anymore i started losing it. I can still make out what people are talking about when I see them sign, but I'm nowhere near as competent as I used to be. Same with Spanish, I used to know it pretty well but a couple years away from it and I can't remember shit. That's just something to be cautious of.

 

[Giliell]

I'd strongly discourage you from learning German if you want something "easy". It's a hell of a language because we don't only have full conjugation but also 4 cases of declination. Only pronunciation is consistent.

It would be vain to recommend any method to you since none of us knows what learning type you are. What worked wonders for one of us might be a disaster for you.
There are only two things I think are safe to generalize:

-Unless you're one of those rare people who have a lot of discipline and willpower to regularly practise, go to a class. A good class should offer something for every learning type and it gives people a regular schedule.

-Watch children's TV and do whatever children do in that language. What works for first language acquisition often also works for second language acquisition. Dexter's Laboratory might not be intellectually challenging, but it's a good way to get used to the language.

 

[Andiferous]

Being Canadian, French would be my best choice to expand job opportunities. I have a minor understanding of it thanks to woefully inadequate mandatory French classes but the teaching method was never very good in Ontario for learning French. I don't think I know a single person who picked up a working understanding of the language even after 9 years of classes.

I rather suck at French myself even despite years study. However, learning a romantic language does make the other romantic languages somewhat easier to follow; and as you point out, it's rather advantageous to learn French if you would like a government position in Ottawa. If you're going to bother, learn French.

 

[Yfelsung]

Now, since English is part of the West German language family, I figure learning another West German language would be easiest to start with.

This is not necessarily the case. English has similarities to Germanic languages in terms of basic vocabulary but when it comes to more advanced vocab and indeed grammar it often has more in common with Latin languages. Basically English is a complete mongrel of a language...

In terms of the best way to learn, I'd say take classes to get up to a certain level. You really do need to understand the basics of sentence structure, pronunciation and conjugation of verbs in present, past and future tenses in order to progress.

After that it's a question of practice. In my experience talking to native speakers on a regular basis is the best way to go, so if you know someone who's prepared to spend time talking to you in your chosen language, that can help a lot. I speak Spanish and French to degree level, and I learned most of my French while visiting French friends as a teenager. Similarly my Spanish took off through practising with my Mexican wife. The key is not to worry too much about making mistakes at first, but to concentrate on being understood, and not falling back on English if you can help it. Just accept that you will be corrected as par for the course and absorb the corrections as you go.

Besides that, you can try reading books, watching films or listening to songs recorded in your chosen language, all of which can help expand your vocabulary and understanding.

Well yes, despite it's Saxon origin, the Norman Conquest added a lot of French into it and that's why English is so messed up, but it's still technically a West German language.

I'm trying to find some local classes now that can fit within my budget.

Oddly enough I started trying to learn German and found it very hard, but when I took a run at Polish it came very naturally to me despite being ass-backwards compared to English.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Well yes, despite it's Saxon origin, the Norman Conquest added a lot of French into it and that's why English is so messed up, but it's still technically a West German language.

Oh, it's much worse than that.

I recomend a book, Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold Story of English, for more details.

EDIT: A nice exerpt:
"Why is English grammar so much less complicated
than German's,or Norwegian's, Icelandic's, or any other
Germanic language's? Because the Scandinavian Vikings
did more than leave us with words like skirt and get. They
also beat up the English language in the same way that we
beat up foreign languages in classrooms,and twelve
hundred years later we are still speaking their close-butno-
cigar rendition of Old English!"

 

[Your Funny Uncle]

Well yes, despite it's Saxon origin, the Norman Conquest added a lot of French into it and that's why English is so messed up, but it's still technically a West German language.

Not just that. There's influence from Norse languages too dating from Viking occupations, as well as many Latin-derived words that were added around the renaissance and other words co-opted from places around the British empire.

 

[scalyblue]

I've heard of some luck with http://www.livemocha.com but it seems hit or miss.

I learned most of my japanese from total immersion, music, media, books, listening in on discussions. I'm far from fluent but I understand enough to get by and that's without any formal training.

 

[Mithcoriel]

So have you settled on a language yet?
Well Giliell already mentioned the ups and downs of German. But if you choose German I'll talk to you from time to time if you want.

Whatever you choose, a program I find useful to practice is the Rosetta Stone Project. It allows you to pick up words the way a kid does, it plays a word and you have to click on the correct picture. Was useful in teaching me some Japanese and very few Italian words.

 

[Memoryfull]

So have you settled on a language yet?
Well Giliell already mentioned the ups and downs of German. But if you choose German I'll talk to you from time to time if you want.

Whatever you choose, a program I find useful to practice is the Rosetta Stone Project. It allows you to pick up words the way a kid does, it plays a word and you have to click on the correct picture. Was useful in teaching me some Japanese and very few Italian words.

This is what worked for me. I find the idea of learning german a good one. I myself speak French, English and Spanish at fluent level. I used Rosetta Stone to learn Italian (since its really close to spanish), and while it won't give you the same linguistic skills as inmersing yourself in the language, it is a very well designed program.

 

[brewpanda]

I would agree that immersion is the best way for learning any language, at least on an informal level. (I think this actually works really well for more than just the romance languages, asian languages are good for this too. It is shocking and interesting how much culture can affect linguistic understanding and comprehension.)

But if you care at all about advanced conjugation, etymology, limguistic evolution, or even multiple usages and meaning, more formal training by way of complex programs or classes, even tutors, will be imperative. Unless of course, you can educate yourself with rigorous discipline.

 

[Netheralian]

People say that Dutch is the easiest to learn for English speakers ...

My current first hand experience would say otherwise. I had much more success learning French than Dutch - and I have now lived in the Netherlands for 3 years. The people don't help though - they all speak such good English that its easy to get lazy.

In terms of sentence structure, French made a shiteload more sense to me. The only thing you have to get your head around is thier absurd spelling and reflexive verbs.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

People say that Dutch is the easiest to learn for English speakers ...

My current first hand experience would say otherwise. I had much more success learning French than Dutch - and I have now lived in the Netherlands for 3 years. The people don't help though - they all speak such good English that its easy to get lazy.

In terms of sentence structure, French made a shiteload more sense to me. The only thing you have to get your head around is thier absurd spelling and reflexive verbs.

For the record I agree.

I don't know why people think it's easier, to quote Twain, "The inventor of the language seems to have taken pleasure in complicating it in every way he could think of." He was, of course, talking about German, but the same applies to all non-English Germanic languages and thrice for Icelandic.