Multiple Consciousness

[Story]

The only real evidence we have that other people experience consciousness in the same way we do is the fact that we do, and seeing that other humans appear like you, behave like you and are made up of the same things as you (by the same processes). We assume that they are also conscious in the same way we are. With nothing that suggests otherwise, we can safely affirm this as true.

Although, I'm not really interested in debating whether we can know other people are conscious as we are or not. Only to define what consciousness is exactly.

"I think, therefore I am" I usually refer to a consciousness as a thinker or watcher. What I mean by this isn't so much that it can see or even hear, but that something is watching and processing all the input it receives. Like for instance, yourselves. Even if we don't have freewill, even if you can't control your actions, you are still watching the theatre of your life. What you think, feel and see is a result of the laws of physics and you wouldn't choose to have it different because your cognition is a machine built upon those laws. Be that as it may, you are watching from your own self and not another; you are still an individual.

This brings up a few questions for me, what makes you you? what makes me me? If a different sperm had hit a different egg, would I not exist? Of course! If that happened someone else would be controlling (or watching) that body, right? Why? Was I consciously the sperm or the egg? How did that consciousness transfer or combine?

I'm not looking for right answers, I'm looking for the right questions... maybe it has nothing to do with the sperm or the egg. What then is it to do with? What makes me me?

Furthermore, what makes a consciousness conscious? Take for instance a computer. Alike ourselves, it is a machine built upon the laws of physics that also "thinks" it processes input and outputs data and stores a memory. Does that then have a consciousness too? Very different to ourselves, but could we assume that alike a human being it has a someone "watching" from within? Why not? And if not, what would it need to reach that level? Could it?

Are insects, animals or bacteria conscious too? All of them? Which are not... and why?

Asking all these questions led me down a spiral of assumptions about what a consciousness could be and I've come to a rather weird conclusion. If we assume that a consciousness is merely a complicated system of cognition alike what we have with ourselves. Then we may not consist of simply one consciousness. There may be as many as 20 consciousnesses within our brains and what's more, they may communicate amongst each other.

This sounds insane, but we must realise that there are things that we process and recognize against our will and almost automatically as if our brains were working on their own. A lot of these things are classed as one part of the brain called the "Subconscious Mind", but I'm not sure that we can class the subconscious as one separate consciousness from our main consciousness, it may be several systems that work independently from each other. I'm far from reaching a complete conclusion on all of this yet,... but I wanted to hear other people's thoughts on the subject just in case I'm going insane. (Not unlikely)

 

[lrkun]

Ask yourself these questions:

1. What's important to me(you)?

2. What should I(you) do right now?

 

[televator]

I think of consciousness as somewhat relative, while also limited to a system in complex arrangement. Regardless of whether the system is organic or "synthetic", I think a certain level of complexity is necessary for the perception of consciousness to arise.

 

[Andiferous]

Fascinating subject and wish I'd have time for more.

When a creature recognises its own consciousness it's rather difficult to deny its identity. Jean Piaget did studies in child development way back when and aren't important except to help illustrate the stages of human development, from having no concept of separation at infancy, to gradually recognising separation from that around them, and understanding the world goes on without them, so to speak.

So maybe it's that that really gives a creature a sense of consciousness. Other experiences with crows/ravens/magpyes have shown that these can also account for people hiding behind a screen and can seemingly count and identify them which shows a remarkable perception of the world, and demonstrating awareness of what they can't even see. I can't find study now, later if you like.

Anyway, I suspect those animals with the strongest sense of perspective have the strongest sense of self identity, and we're silly to think only humans can possess this capacity. I'm sure it's muddied up in our evaluation and separation from our environments, and can be measured as such across the spectrum. Or so I guess.. but just a guess.

 

[devilsadvocate]

what makes a consciousness conscious? Take for instance a computer. Alike ourselves, it is a machine built upon the laws of physics that also "thinks" it processes input and outputs data and stores a memory. Does that then have a consciousness too? Very different to ourselves, but could we assume that alike a human being it has a someone "watching" from within?

You might have just answered your own question. At the very least consciousness is to be aware of self and of own processes to some extent. To that, I think, one has to have the mental faculty to differentiate oneself from the rest of the world.


You wanted questions, I'm not sure how applicable these are, but anyways:
What does "to concentrate" mean? What part of you is concentrating and what part of you is issuing the command? Given that the input into the senses stays the same, I find it peculiar we have this power over on what to focus. One can also lose consciousness (or self awareness) by being engrossed in activity or input.


EDIT: The best way to understand consciousness might be to understand how the brain works and, from what I've heard, the best way to do that is to examine brains that don't work in some aspect. For example, what does it mean to see something? People who have had their brains damaged in an accident, might not be able to make sense of general things they see, but they can easily recognize faces, and vice versa some people have lost the ability to recognize faces, because both happen in somewhat different part of the brain. Then again some people have perfectly working eyes and the parts of brains that make sense of what we see, but have lost the part that bridges them to higher brain functions. These people would honestly say that they don't see a thing, but if you throw a ball at them, they might dodge. More interestingly perhaps, the same people, if you asked slyly for them to pick up something on the table, might do it unconsciously.*

* The last thing I read from an article about triune brain theory, so it might be bogus.

 

[Noumenon]

Then again some people have perfectly working eyes and the parts of brains that make sense of what we see, but have lost the part that bridges them to higher brain functions. These people would honestly say that they don't see a thing, but if you throw a ball at them, they might dodge. More interestingly perhaps, the same people, if you asked slyly for them to pick up something on the table, might do it unconsciously.

I read this first point somewhere in a Daniel Dennett book, probably Consciousness Explained, in relation to hysterical blindness - he describes aparently blind people dodging unexpected obstacles like opening doors, etc. A few years ago, the daughter of an acquaintance of mine had a rather unpleasant experience and over the next few days found her eyesight deteriorating to nothing, without injury to explain it. She later reported oddly disjointed pseudo-visual experiences, but remained consciously blind. When I heard about this I told her mother about Dennett's other example, of a suffer playing catch with a tennis ball even though they think they cannot see but prove able to pick the ball out of the air; she and her daughter tried it, successfully. So that one isn't bogus at least!

I don't think that this degree of unconscious response extends to the second point though - in your phrasing it almost sounds like the blind person becomes a voice-operated robot! I would say that they are consciously responding to your request, but also basing their action upon unconsciously incorporated stimulous.

 

[devilsadvocate]

I don't think that this degree of unconscious response extends to the second point though - in your phrasing it almost sounds like the blind person becomes a voice-operated robot! I would say that they are consciously responding to your request, but also basing their action upon unconsciously incorporated stimulous.

It wasn't my intention to make person in the example seem like a robot. I was merely trying to point out that the blind person must not become too aware of her action, or else she remembers she can't, in fact, see and thus can not complete the task.

 

[Noumenon]

It wasn't my intention to make person in the example seem like a robot. I was merely trying to point out that the blind person must not become too aware of her action, or else she remembers she can't, in fact, see and thus can not complete the task.

Understood. In the case of the ball catching there is the same immediacy of action leaving no time for reflection on the part of The Subject but this starts to beg other questions, like how much influence does consciousness have over action. Dennett's Multiple Drafts suggest that to some degree consciousness may be effect rather than cause, but (as you say) I'm sure that if someone is consciously dwelling on their apparent blindness they will likely not follow a subconscious visual signal so readily, so now we have cause again*.

The same person I mentioned before also reported experiencing less rapid reactive subconcious effects. After being sat behind a stranger (on a bus I think) for some time, she had the word "freckles" pop into her head; this person she "couldn't" see had them on the back of their neck, so presumably she was picking up visual information in a slower and more passive way.

Sorry if I'm totally derailing the thread here.

* I like Dennett's books a lot. It's features like this that I think make his arguments for free will arising mechanistically so plausible.

 

[Thunderios]

I have been studying lucid dreaming, that is, being aware of that fact that you are dreaming, whilst dreaming, as a hobby for some time. It is a really interesting concept. Normally, you are unconscious while asleep. Your consciousness governs whatever you dream. But, with intending, or programming your unconsciousness to awaken your consciousness while you are dreaming, you get in a paradoxical state of being aware when you normally aren't.
So what is consciousness? I think it's the king of our brain; other parts of our brain gather intelligence, and feed it to our consciousness, it, evaluating it, then orders other parts of the brain to do what it thinks they have to do. Of course, a king doesn't have to say everything, mostly the unconsciousness knows what to do. Consciousness is a basis for interacting with the outside world, it can discern between what is within our control and what isn't.
Then the question, what am I? Am I the atoms I am made of? Or the pattern that keeps my body together? I highly doubt it, since most of our body changes. In five years I might have a beard, I will have more knowledge. I think that, although I think I will remain the same I, it is just an illusion and that I will change.

More questions? Let's see. How essentially different is our consciousness from our subconsciousness? I recently read a book where someone, when he was lucid dreaming, met a representation of his unconsciousness. He experienced that this being, although you would assume it doesn't have a personality, since it's but our brain, actually was very conscious in itself. He called it the conscious unconscious. So, like you said, is our brain made out of but one consciousness, or are there multiple personalities within us, contending over power, or doing whatever personalities would do?

 

[Carbonacious]

Consciousness is a very broad term, but it's definitely a direct result of our brains. Anthropocentric consciousness (i.e self-non-self) is probably not entirely useful when describing consciousness in animals, insects, etc, as different living things will probably experience different forms and intensities of 'consciousness'.

I do believe some animals show a consciousness very similar to our own, ie the ability for self awareness or reflective introspection. Dolphins in particular have the ability to recognize themselves, and other dolphins, in say pictures or video. It's ignorant to assume we are the only conscious creatures on this planet, you just have to expect and search out multiple forms of consciousness. The definition of consciousness is still a work in progress.

Modern computers however work nothing like a brain. They can't be conscious, or intelligent, at least with the state of computers today. Maybe artificial neural networks will achieve what computers today can't.

As consciousness is a direct result of our brain, its safe to assume there is no inherent 'you' in any certain sperm. 'You' are the culmination of the development of your brain, and a amalgamation of real world experiences. A christain would assume that 'you' are inherent in the sperm by claiming a soul.

 

[Leçi]

The thing that makes me me and you you is according to me the same, it's the rest that's different. I guess the consciousness is what binds all the personal things together, how you react, how you feel, see, smell and taste. It's all different but if I would have the same personality in the same body I would act the same way.

 

[Giliell]

Having a bit of background in developmental psychology, I love watching how the consciousness grows in my children. There are those milestones like when they first recognize themselves in the mirror or a photo. I would say that consciousness includes thinking in relationships, incause and effect, in the famous object-permanency (the fact that an object doesn't go out of existence just because it's out of sight.), in before and after. And a lot of those things are true for animals, too. We know that elephants recognize themselves in the mirror, dolphins, too and our cousins the apes.

I like Pratchetts idea of "1st and 2nd and 3rd thoughts", the first thoughts being those you think "everyday" while the 2nd thoughts being those that think about thinking with the third thoughts being another meta-level

 

[acapello]

Often I have jokingly stated to my daughter, who is very creative like her mother, " when you're drawing or painting during a conversation, you're attention is diverted from painting and focused on the conversation...so that being said..why is your hand still painting so perfectly and who is doing the painting?" I always assumed it was a subconscious act.

Another thing....I personally have been struggling over different the paths to take in my life. I want this way...and I want the other way... It literally feels like there are two people maybe three conscious persons inside of my head and heart fighting with eachother over who gets their way and it is having a drastic effect on my body, my thinking, my emotions, my prayer life. I've been struggling with this "dissonence" within me for quite some time now and it's seriously affecting my health. Some would say it's depression. I don't know what it is... and never considered the possiblilty of having multiple consciousness' within me until last night.

I had a dream that showed at least 3 different parts of me. and at the conclusion of the dream they were all in my head having a fist fight with eachother. Wow. And I heard someone say the words..."multiple consciousness" Now isn't that something? And what a coincidence I come across this on the internet the next day?

Maybe I'm just going "insane" too...lol