Mosque at Ground Zero

[Anachronous Rex]

Is it not possible to make the park without the mosque? or if there is a mosque, a church as well? or other religions?

As if there weren't plenty of churches in New York?

Do you follow?

Apparently not... Park 51 isn't even a Mosque, it's a community center. It has a designated 'prayer space' in it, but if that's the definition of a Mosque then I guess my old highschool and Target Corporate Headquarters are both Mosques.

So why would we want to put a church in it, exactly? To accommodate Christian visitors who aren't required to pray at given times each day?

 

[Aught3]

Apparently not... Park 51 isn't even a Mosque, it's a community center. It has a designated 'prayer space' in it, but if that's the definition of a Mosque then I guess my old highschool and Target Corporate Headquarters are both Mosques.

I went to the Park 51 website and they are calling the 'prayer space' a mosque. http://park51.org.s105994.gridserver.com/facilities.htm

 

[Andiferous]

As said before (in so many words)....

If intolerance caused the problem, can intolerance be part of the solution?

 

[Aught3]

As said before (in so many words)....

If intolerance caused the problem, can intolerance be part of the solution?

Yes it can. If we are so intolerant of the original intolerance that we completely eliminate it, the situation will be solved. :lol:

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Apparently not... Park 51 isn't even a Mosque, it's a community center. It has a designated 'prayer space' in it, but if that's the definition of a Mosque then I guess my old highschool and Target Corporate Headquarters are both Mosques.

I went to the Park 51 website and they are calling the 'prayer space' a mosque. http://park51.org.s105994.gridserver.com/facilities.htm

Ah yes, this is something they can get away with because, of course, they are likely familiar with the actual meaning of the word - a public place of worship - which of course a prayer space is.

However, in the colloquial sense common to this nation (and clearly Irkun, as he suggest countering the center with a church) the word is equivalent to a specialized ritual religious structure equivalent to a church or temple; which of course it is not.

That's why I threw in the examples of my High School and the Target Corp basement, these are technically mosques. You would be sorely disappointed, however, if you visited them expecting the Hagia Sophia, which seems to be what people believe Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is building.

 

[Andiferous]

As said before (in so many words)....

If intolerance caused the problem, can intolerance be part of the solution?

Yes it can. If we are so intolerant of the original intolerance that we completely eliminate it, the situation will be solved. :lol:

Excellent argument for all kinds of controversial policies I like.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

The whole point is that in the free world - well, it's America, so it's kinda-free - people don't need to make concessions like that.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0170030#m_en_gb0170030

So what do you plan to do about it?

Wait what?
I say that people shouldn't have to make concessions like building a church next to a mosque or nothing gets built at all, and you link me to the dictionary definition of 'concession' and then ask me what I am going to do about it?
I am totally lost as to what you are asking of me.

 

[lrkun]

Wait what?
I say that people shouldn't have to make concessions like building a church next to a mosque or nothing gets built at all, and you link me to the dictionary definition of 'concession' and then ask me what I am going to do about it?
I am totally lost as to what you are asking of me.

I'm not making assumptions that people know what it means. So I made a link to the definition of the term. I just wanted to know your opinion.

 

[DarkSpike]

I don't really get what makes it such a big deal. I mean, I bet that there are some muslim living in NY, close to Ground Zero.
Do we now threaten them to kick them out of their houses/apartments? No.
If they met other muslims and prayed together in those houses or apartments, would we throw them out? No.
If a muslim wanted to buy a house/apartment, would we deny it to them? No.

So why should we deny such centre?
Where is the difference from praying in your house or on a public place?

 

[lrkun]

I don't really get what makes it such a big deal. I mean, I bet that there are some muslim living in NY, close to Ground Zero.
Do we now threaten them to kick them out of their houses/apartments? No.
If they met other muslims and prayed together in those houses or apartments, would we throw them out? No.
If a muslim wanted to buy a house/apartment, would we deny it to them? No.

So why should we deny such centre?
Where is the difference from praying in your house or on a public place?

To state the conclusion first: YES

House - private.

Public - law/Politics/public opinion/public and international relations.

 

[DarkSpike]

I don't really get what makes it such a big deal. I mean, I bet that there are some muslim living in NY, close to Ground Zero.
Do we now threaten them to kick them out of their houses/apartments? No.
If they met other muslims and prayed together in those houses or apartments, would we throw them out? No.
If a muslim wanted to buy a house/apartment, would we deny it to them? No.

So why should we deny such centre?
Where is the difference from praying in your house or on a public place?

To state the conclusion first: YES

House - private.

Public - law/Politics/public opinion/public and international relations.

Ok, so what now? Simply because this community centre is supposed to be public and built by muslims means it's should be prohibited? If so, why?

EDIT: What is the problem with it being public?

 

[lrkun]

Ok, so what now? Simply because this community centre is supposed to be public and built by muslims means it's should be prohibited? If so, why?

Dunno, I only stated the difference between the two. Whether or not park 51 should be build is something for them to decide. However, we're pondering about the issue. Don't like the idea of thinking why that is so?

Why do you say that there is a problem if it is public? Is there?

I suggest you read from the very beginning of this thread. Doing so will aid you in understanding the thread topic.

 

[DarkSpike]

Why do you say that there is a problem if it is public? Is there?

Well, it seems to be a problem that it is community centre containing a mosque (and thus making it a problem), which is a public place, isn't it?

I suggest you read from the very beginning of this thread. Doing so will aid you in understanding the thread topic.

I did and even if people around here doesn't seem to be offended by it, many other people are and I don't get why....

 

[lrkun]

Well, it seems to be a problem that it is community centre containing a mosque (and thus making it a problem), which is a public place, isn't it?

Persons who are not ready to forget or forgive the 9/11 world trade center attack still feel ill will against islam.

I did and even if people around here doesn't seem to be offended by it, many other people are and I don't get why....

Personal bias. Some are in favore, because they think it is okay. Some are against, because they think it is not okay. However, their reasons may vary. Therefore, any may be for any reason.

 

[DarkSpike]

Personal bias. Some are in favore, because they think it is okay. Some are against, because they think it is not okay. However, their reasons may vary. Therefore, any may be for any reason.

Alright, there is nothing more to add, because everything could be countered with the 'personal bias' argument...

 

[DeathofSpeech]

Why do you say that there is a problem if it is public? Is there?

Well, it seems to be a problem that it is community centre containing a mosque (and thus making it a problem), which is a public place, isn't it?

I suggest you read from the very beginning of this thread. Doing so will aid you in understanding the thread topic.

I did and even if people around here doesn't seem to be offended by it, many other people are and I don't get why....

Not a public place...
A private establishment may be open to the public but have an express purpose.
You would be out of place to do jumping jacks in a bar, and equally out of place to stand around the gym doing tequila shots.

Religious based community centers are typically intended to provide positive activities for youth with some moderate amount of watchful guidance and supervision... you know, basically a place for kids to do something interesting and stay out of trouble, while keeping trouble from wandering in the door.

On the other hand, so long as someone doesn't interfere with traffic or commerce, I could care less if they dropped a prayer rug in a discrete patch of sidewalk for a few minutes. So long as I don't have to kick them off my porch for trying to share their prayer rug with me, I'm fine with that.
If they insist... I have a big deep freeze. :twisted: