Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

[thenexttodie]

What message are you talking about? The Bible is mostly just a record of mankind's hatred and rejection of God.

That just makes it even worse. Why even have a record of such a thing?

It makes things worse for people who hate Him. It gives you the oppurtunitey to hate Him even more.

Why not a more positive and inspiring message, rather than a depressing and pessimistic one?

When you die, you will go to hell, Rumraket. The reason why is not because God "accidently" put you there and that deep down inside you are really a good person who made a simple mistake. So you should be depressed. You want God to put you in a special place where you can live without Him. You don't get a high five from God for wanting to go to hell.

 

[thenexttodie]

Not that I read all of it, but Hack's blog is a magnitude better, more comprehensive, coherent and in concert with reality than the bible.

So yeah, he's already done way better than your imaginary friend.

A rather typical response. Regardless of your comparision to him with an imaginary friend, I am an avid reader and even if Hack was my greatest enemy I would still have an appreciation for certain authors and I think that Hack will be one of those.

 

[Bango Skank]

It makes things worse for people who hate Him. It gives you the oppurtunitey to hate Him even more

Is people's hate against God justified in your opinion? If not, why not?

 

[Rumraket]

That just makes it even worse. Why even have a record of such a thing?

It makes things worse for people who hate Him. It gives you the oppurtunitey to hate Him even more.

What good is that? What good purpose in the world does that serve?

Why would anyone WANT to give other people MORE opportunity to hate them? Why not do more for reconciliation, understanding and peace? I simply don't understand that attitude.

Would it not be better to focus on the good in people? God is supposedly a loving and caring God who wants a relationship with everyone. Then why not try to appeal to good things in people? Many different christians have told me that God wants to enter into a loving, everlasting relationship with everyone.

It seems to me that it is counterproductive to give people more opportunity to hate you if you want to enter into a loving relationship with them. Call me strange, but I've been around people, and in my experience you don't make friends by giving them opportunity to hate you even more. That's just me.

You seem to disagree, is that correct?

Why not a more positive and inspiring message, rather than a depressing and pessimistic one?

When you die, you will go to hell, Rumraket.

Yes yes, I know you believe this. What I don't understand is why you mentioning this is even relevant to our discussion here.

I suppose you have a hard time letting go of your own perspective, so in some sense what you hope to achieve when you tell me this, is that you can sort of "scare" me into silence, or to agree with you. That's my guess because I've seen many different theists attempt something like this over then last 10 years. It hasn't worked so far, and I'm afraid that with every attempt it just becomes ever more ludicrous to me.

Let me take this opportunity to try to explain to you how much a waste of your time that is.

Try to explore for a second how it makes you feel if I tell you that the Galactic Empire from Star Wars will come and arrest you and have you tortured by Darth Vader if you don’t stop talking about christianity.

Notice how entirely unaffected you are. Imagine how little sleep you will lose over this possibility. How little sleep you have lost over it in the past. You will probably have forgotten about it in 30 seconds after reading this.

I imagine you’re sitting behind your monitor reading this, and smiling at how ridiculous it is. That feeling you have there about Star Wars and the Empire, that’s me when you talk to me about God throwing me to hell.

The reason why is not because God "accidently" put you there and that deep down inside you are really a good person who made a simple mistake. So you should be depressed. You want God to put you in a special place where you can live without Him. You don't get a high five from God for wanting to go to hell.

Look, I already know you believe all these things. The problem is that it makes no logical sense and there's no evidence for it. And that's why I don't believe any of it.

If you want to convince me of something, it has to be internally consistent, plausible, and have evidence for it. So when you posit that there's an all-loving, perfectly good God, and this God has produced a "message" for mankind in the form of the Bible, and I can see without spending any more than 10 seconds thinking about it, how it is so manifestly NOT the product of a perfectly good divine intelligence, you're not making it easy for me to believe in the message you're advocating for.

 

[Sparhafoc]

What message are you talking about? The Bible is mostly just a record of mankind's hatred and rejection of God.

That just makes it even worse. Why even have a record of such a thing?

It makes things worse for people who hate Him. It gives you the oppurtunitey to hate Him even more.

Can you expand on this because, even granting all the abjectly pathetic suppositions necessary to engage in the notion, it still doesn't logic. And when I say doesn't logic, I mean it's a thorough non-sequitur.

Why not a more positive and inspiring message, rather than a depressing and pessimistic one?

When you die, you will go to hell, Rumraket.

While you live, Thenexttodie, you will always be a smug deluded intellectual masturbator.

The difference? Your contention about Rumraket is make-believe.

The reason why is not because God "accidently" put you there and that deep down inside you are really a good person who made a simple mistake. So you should be depressed.

Cuntish behavior again. Sorry, I was mistaken in assuming you were a fundamentally decent person with the capacity for thought: you're clearly a spiteful little shit running on autopilot-hate.

You want God to put you in a special place where you can live without Him. You don't get a high five from God for wanting to go to hell.

Go back to gobbling yourself off - you do it well, and you don't splurge your cum on everyone else in the process.

 

[Sparhafoc]

I am an avid reader and even if Hack was my greatest enemy I would still have an appreciation for certain authors and I think that Hack will be one of those.

Then perhaps you should aspire to write in a manner than generates appreciation instead of acting like a total fucking asshat.

 

[thenexttodie]

Is people's hate against God justified in your opinion? If not, why not?

It also seems to me that the "best reason" people give for hating or rejecting God have to do with a Calvanistic view. So that when ever someone is beaten and robbed or whenever a child is raped, it was because God decreed that it should happen. When you debate an atheist, he will try to stear the dialog towards Calvanism, because they are smart enough to know Calvanism is logically inconsitant and evil. But that simple fact that some people are able to posit the idea of Calvanism is not cause to justify hatred of God.

It seems on this forum, people like to argue that we should reject God because God did not do certain miracles. So far, no one here has attempted to quantify the effects of every miracle God should or should not do. It would be like me saying "Man, my life would be so much better if God would give me 1,000,000 dollars." Such whimsical ideas are not justifaction for hating God because we do not quatify the truthfullness of such whimsical statements.


It seems to me there are people who reject God who have been effectively brainwashed or mentally abused, probably from a young age. Like the son of Siir Elton John will be by his 2 fathers. I can understand why this kid might grow up to hate God. But still, even if the entire world celebrated him being adopted by 2 homosexuals. I would tell him no; that his hatered of God is not justified, because did not want him to be adopted by 2 homosexuals.

 

[thenexttodie]

Then perhaps you should aspire to write in a manner than generates appreciation instead of acting like a total fucking asshat.

I'm soryy I called you a pussy. I should not have talked like that about you. I apoligize. If it makes you feel better, I got a PM from a mod who is mad at me now.

 

[Bango Skank]

Is people's hate against God justified in your opinion? If not, why not?

It also seems to me that the "best reason" people give for hating or rejecting God have to do with a Calvanistic view. So that when ever someone is beaten and robbed or whenever a child is raped, it was because God decreed that it should happen. When you debate an atheist, he will try to stear the dialog towards Calvanism, because they are smart enough to know Calvanism is logically inconsitant and evil. But that simple fact that some people are able to posit the idea of Calvanism is not cause to justify hatred of God.

It seems on this forum, people like to argue that we should reject God because God did not do certain miracles. So far, no one here has attempted to quantify the effects of every miracle God should or should not do. It would be like me saying "Man, my life would be so much better if God would give me 1,000,000 dollars." Such whimsical ideas are not justifaction for hating God because we do not quatify the truthfullness of such whimsical statements.


It seems to me there are people who reject God who have been effectively brainwashed or mentally abused, probably from a young age. Like the son of Siir Elton John will be by his 2 fathers. I can understand why this kid might grow up to hate God. But still, even if the entire world celebrated him being adopted by 2 homosexuals. I would tell him no; that his hatered of God is not justified, because did not want him to be adopted by 2 homosexuals.

I think God only does miracles for certain gain, so he is opportunist. There are examples in the bible where God changes his mind, he can be persuaded to do it. So the master plan can be changed.

Aand you just had to bring the gay stuff again....

 

[Rumraket]

It seems on this forum, people like to argue that we should reject God because God did not do certain miracles. So far, no one here has attempted to quantify the effects of every miracle God should or should not do. It would be like me saying "Man, my life would be so much better if God would give me 1,000,000 dollars." Such whimsical ideas are not justifaction for hating God because we do not quatify the truthfullness of such whimsical statements.

This whole thing about "rejection" of God is honestly a red herring. To be sure, there are conceptions of God that, even if God existed, I find reprehensible and I wouldn't want to have anything to do with. But for my own part it's entirely about evidence and logic. I don't believe there are any good evidence or logic-based reasons for believing that a God exists.

That said, when it comes to christianity and this whole thing about whether God has done enough miracles for mankind, I have to point out that according to christianity, God created a perfect world in "The Garden of Eden" (and supposedly when we die, if we have "accepted Jesus into our hearts", we will go to haven to be with God for eternity).

Only problem is that in the story, there was this stupid magical tree with magical fruit which, if anyone ate from it, it made God angry, and contained magical knowledge God didn't want them to have.
One has to wonder why God would put that magical tree in the garden. Even worse given that god is supposedly omnipotent and would have known what was going to happen. It doesn't make logical sense. If that tree simply didn't exist inside the garden, supposedly mankind would have existed in eternal happiness without "sin", "the fall" and all that crap. Also, rather that simply reboot relations with Adam and Eve and recreate the garden without the snake and the magical evil tree, God decided upon this whole fatuous scenario with inherited original sin, rejection from paradise and so on. Why? How hard is it to just start over? God could do that. No matter how you try to look at it, none of it makes sense. And it makes even less sense once you start trying to square it all with the Jesus fantasy.

A cosmic Jewish zombie named Jesus who telekinetically fathered himself by a virgin and now resides simultaneously everywhere but also outside of time and space, is possessed by the spirit of a supernatural ghost that is in a parallel-dimension identical with but distinct from himself and an ancient Canaanite storm god, and promises to make you live forever in an alternate dimension if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood, and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that has eternally tainted your mammalian flesh ever since a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. So you better do what he says.

I have to say, on this particular point Christopher Hitchens was absolutely rigth: It can't be believed by a thinking person.

Now, we happen to know for a fact that none of the Adam and Eve stuff ever took place. It's a total fantasy for which there is no shred of historical or scientific evidence. There is only the fable as written in an old book.

We know beyond all reasonable doubt that there was no Adam and Eve. Humans evolved from other primates over millions of years. Done. Case closed. If there really is a creator God that made the universe and somehow set it up to contain life, we can be virtually certain that that creator-god has nothing to do with the traditional christian conceptions of it.

 

[thenexttodie]

What good is that? What good purpose in the world does that serve?

One purpose would be to show that, no matter what God does, you will always hate him more and more and you will try to hurt the people who love god and hate evil more and more. Because that is what you want to do.

Why would anyone WANT to give other people MORE opportunity to hate them? Why not do more for reconciliation, understanding and peace? I simply don't understand that attitude.

I don't think there will ever be any reconciliation for you. I don't understand why you would even ask me something like that.

How much of your life have you spent telling other people that they should reject God? Mocking God and the people who love Him? How old are you?
I don't suspect there will be a day when you ever stop doing this.

Would it not be better to focus on the good in people?

:lol: What part of you is good? Is it the part that tries to convince other people to go to hell with you when they die?

The reason why is not because God "accidently" put you there and that deep down inside you are really a good person who made a simple mistake. So you should be depressed. You want God to put you in a special place where you can live without Him. You don't get a high five from God for wanting to go to hell.

Look, I already know you believe all these things. The problem is that it makes no logical sense and there's no evidence for it. And that's why I don't believe any of it.

If you want to convince me of something, it has to be internally consistent, plausible, and have evidence for it. So when you posit that there's an all-loving..

Athiests demand that god should be all-loving and they try to sneak the phrase in where they can. I am not sure why they do this.

 

[thenexttodie]

I think God only does miracles for certain gain, so he is opportunist. There are examples in the bible where God changes his mind, he can be persuaded to do it. So the master plan can be changed..

If only other Christians were as smart as you..

 

[thenexttodie]

@rumraket, sorry i did not responde to your other post yet, i will later.

 

[Bango Skank]

I think God only does miracles for certain gain, so he is opportunist. There are examples in the bible where God changes his mind, he can be persuaded to do it. So the master plan can be changed..

If only other Christians were as smart as you..

Yeah, im so fucking smart that i think i can overrun the creator of the universe.

 

[Sparhafoc]

Then perhaps you should aspire to write in a manner than generates appreciation instead of acting like a total fucking asshat.

I'm soryy I called you a pussy. I should not have talked like that about you. I apoligize. If it makes you feel better, I got a PM from a mod who is mad at me now.

You misunderstand.

I am not offended by you calling me a pussy - not at all - it just means you're a person who can't actually stick to discussing the content of the argument, opting instead to engage in an emotional conflict. I'd pegged you wrongly.

What I think is fucking demented is when you sneer and mock someone who says they've suffered depression, or when you lash out with your supernatural fetishist bollocks threatening people with a fucking idiotic notion that only morons lend credence to.

There's no surprise to be had in the rapid decline of Christianity in modern times if the best that Christianity can muster are the three supposed Christians who come here expressing their hatred publicly for their perceived ideological enemies.

What exactly is Christian about you? I don't see a damn thing I recognize as being grounded on or extrapolated from the words of Jesus in the Bible. It's like your Christianity is just a platform for hating other people.

If you can't act in concordance with your own fucking faith, then perhaps you should go and have the plank surgically removed from your eye.

And stick the supernatural threats of deranged violence back up the rectal passage from which you extruded them. Learn to fucking discourse or join LEROY in the idiot corner.

 

[Sparhafoc]

Is people's hate against God justified in your opinion? If not, why not?

It also seems to me that the "best reason" people give for hating or rejecting God have to do with a Calvanistic view. So that when ever someone is beaten and robbed or whenever a child is raped, it was because God decreed that it should happen. When you debate an atheist, he will try to stear the dialog towards Calvanism, because they are smart enough to know Calvanism is logically inconsitant and evil. But that simple fact that some people are able to posit the idea of Calvanism is not cause to justify hatred of God.

Alternate reading: Calvinists don't cherry-pick in wilful blindness... all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small AND all things putrid, foul and gangrenous, the Lord God made them all.

Most Christians just sleepwalk through their religious beliefs anyway, so they never even conceive of, let alone engage in the idea that if God can be lauded for 'miracles' then why can't God either be lauded for 'disasters' or at least for apathy in failing to prevent the mass-killing of innocents.

Of the very few Christians who even conceive of such a notion, the majority of those also have mental safe-guards in place, explaining the problem away with vacuities, borrowed apologetics, or simply dismissing it as a misunderstanding on someone else's part.

There are very few people capable of doing religion right. The more ardent the believer, the more they are inconsistent in their beliefs, unaware of the contradictions, complexities and counterfactual qualities of the thing they supposedly believe.

A good example of this is the notion of non-believers 'rejecting God' as if there's only one religion, and only one purported divine entity - the typical vacuous hubris of the sleepwalking Christian.

Interestingly, I do actually reject the Christian God Yahweh - specifically the one presented in the Bible OT and NT (not the special one you make up as you go along). I reject it primarily on logical, empirical, and historical grounds: the nature of my rejection concerns its existence, not an emotional rejection as if of a person, but rather the dismissal of a stupid idea, laughably lacking any good reason to lend it credence.

But although this has been shown many times to confuse you, I can still entertain the notion of this Yahweh character's existence, just as I could entertain the notion of the existence of any god, any fictional character, any fairy tale. If Sauron existed, then Sauron's a spiteful asshat who should assuredly not be worshiped, but struggled against with all the force we can muster. The exact same goes for the Biblical Yahweh - a vile imagination of morally lesser human beings.

It seems on this forum, people like to argue that we should reject God because God did not do certain miracles.

It seems to me that if you were obliged to source this contention, the actual evidence for it would be wholly lacking. The reason why most people don't believe (not 'reject') X god is because there's no bloody good reason to believe it.

This goes for all those hundreds of gods you don't believe in - see how easy it is to 'reject' them? Do you feel the need to specify that, because they failed to perform a given miracle, that's why you reject them? Or is it really because you don't lend them any credence in the first place because there's no bloody good reason to?

Your god belief is exactly equivalent to all the other god beliefs, regardless of whether you possess the intellectual fortitude to comprehend that or not.

So far, no one here has attempted to quantify the effects of every miracle God should or should not do. It would be like me saying "Man, my life would be so much better if God would give me 1,000,000 dollars." Such whimsical ideas are not justifaction for hating God because we do not quatify the truthfullness of such whimsical statements.

Such paucity of imagination is why you get lost in your navel. How about a simple one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Plough_the_Fields_and_Scatter

He sends the snow in winter, the warmth to swell the grain,
The breezes and the sunshine, and soft refreshing rain.
All good gifts around us
Are sent from heaven above,
Then thank the Lord, O thank the Lord
For all His love.

So how about NOT SENDING a hurricane to devastate thousands of peoples' lives and well-being? How about actively intervening to stop these supposedly natural disasters occurring?

But if God sends the rains and snow, how can it be consistent that God doesn't actualy send that hurricane because 'he' is a malevolent prick? Note, remember the Sauron thing - I am not saying your god exists and blaming 'him' - I am talking about the logical ramifications of claimed Christian ontologies.

It seems to me there are people who reject God who have been effectively brainwashed or mentally abused, probably from a young age. Like the son of Siir Elton John will be by his 2 fathers. I can understand why this kid might grow up to hate God. But still, even if the entire world celebrated him being adopted by 2 homosexuals. I would tell him no; that his hatered of God is not justified, because did not want him to be adopted by 2 homosexuals.

What a spiteful, hate-filled little creature you are.

It seems to me there are people who proclaim belief in God just to give license to their ignorant prejudice and narcissistic antipathy to others.

Lowest common denominator stuff. You fundie Christians are just as dangerous as your fundie Muslim counterparts.

 

[thenexttodie]

Alternate reading: Calvinists don't cherry-pick in wilful blindness... all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small AND all things putrid, foul and gangrenous, the Lord God made them all.

Are you a Calvinist?

Most Christians just sleepwalk through their religious beliefs anyway, so they never even conceive of, let alone engage in the idea that if God can be lauded for 'miracles' then why can't God either be lauded for 'disasters' or at least for apathy in failing to prevent the mass-killing of innocents.

Of the very few Christians who even conceive of such a notion, the majority of those also have mental safe-guards in place, explaining the problem away with vacuities, borrowed apologetics, or simply dismissing it as a misunderstanding on someone else's part.

There are very few people capable of doing religion right. The more ardent the believer, the more they are inconsistent in their beliefs, unaware of the contradictions, complexities and counterfactual qualities of the thing they supposedly believe.

A good example of this is the notion of non-believers 'rejecting God' as if there's only one religion, and only one purported divine entity - the typical vacuous hubris of the sleepwalking Christian.

Interestingly, I do actually reject the Christian God Yahweh - specifically the one presented in the Bible OT and NT (not the special one you make up as you go along). I reject it primarily on logical, empirical, and historical grounds: the nature of my rejection concerns its existence, not an emotional rejection as if of a person, but rather the dismissal of a stupid idea, laughably lacking any good reason to lend it credence.

But although this has been shown many times to confuse you, I can still entertain the notion of this Yahweh character's existence, just as I could entertain the notion of the existence of any god, any fictional character, any fairy tale. If Sauron existed, then Sauron's a spiteful asshat who should assuredly not be worshiped, but struggled against with all the force we can muster. The exact same goes for the Biblical Yahweh - a vile imagination of morally lesser human beings.

It seems on this forum, people like to argue that we should reject God because God did not do certain miracles.

It seems to me that if you were obliged to source this contention, the actual evidence for it would be wholly lacking. The reason why most people don't believe (not 'reject') X god is because there's no bloody good reason to believe it.

This goes for all those hundreds of gods you don't believe in - see how easy it is to 'reject' them? Do you feel the need to specify that, because they failed to perform a given miracle, that's why you reject them? Or is it really because you don't lend them any credence in the first place because there's no bloody good reason to?

Your god belief is exactly equivalent to all the other god beliefs, regardless of whether you possess the intellectual fortitude to comprehend that or not.

So far, no one here has attempted to quantify the effects of every miracle God should or should not do. It would be like me saying "Man, my life would be so much better if God would give me 1,000,000 dollars." Such whimsical ideas are not justifaction for hating God because we do not quatify the truthfullness of such whimsical statements.

Such paucity of imagination is why you get lost in your navel. How about a simple one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Plough_the_Fields_and_Scatter

He sends the snow in winter, the warmth to swell the grain,
The breezes and the sunshine, and soft refreshing rain.
All good gifts around us
Are sent from heaven above,
Then thank the Lord, O thank the Lord
For all His love.

So how about NOT SENDING a hurricane to devastate thousands of peoples' lives and well-being? How about actively intervening to stop these supposedly natural disasters occurring?

But if God sends the rains and snow, how can it be consistent that God doesn't actualy send that hurricane because 'he' is a malevolent prick? Note, remember the Sauron thing - I am not saying your god exists and blaming 'him' - I am talking about the logical ramifications of claimed Christian ontologies.

I don't believe that God specifically decrees or manages weather phenomena. I think weather is determined by atmosphere, water cycle, possible effects of sunlight ect..


[

 

[thenexttodie]

We know beyond all reasonable doubt that there was no Adam and Eve. Humans evolved from other primates over millions of years. Done. Case closed. If there really is a creator God that made the universe and somehow set it up to contain life, we can be virtually certain that that creator-god has nothing to do with the traditional christian conceptions of it.

Well I guess that settles everything then. You win.

 

[thenexttodie]

We know beyond all reasonable doubt that there was no Adam and Eve. Humans evolved from other primates over millions of years. Done. Case closed. If there really is a creator God that made the universe and somehow set it up to contain life, we can be virtually certain that that creator-god has nothing to do with the traditional christian conceptions of it.

Well I guess that settles it then. You win.

 

[thenexttodie]

I think God only does miracles for certain gain, so he is opportunist. There are examples in the bible where God changes his mind, he can be persuaded to do it. So the master plan can be changed..

If only other Christians were as smart as you..

Yeah, im so fucking smart that i think i can overrun the creator of the universe.

Well you were smart enough to recognize what should be an obvious truth in the Bible. Keep it up. Don't worry about what these idiots on this forum think about you. They only pretend to like you when you say the things they want you to say. That is how life is.