Looking for a theistic evolutionist.

[biology4life]

Creationism is let's be blunt a croc(oduck) of shite and to me frankly rather boring.
I do however have a certain curiostiy about what theistic evolutionists believe, and the range of that belief. I see no need for a god in the explanitory framework of evolutionary biology but I am genuine interested in it how others mighty see that role, I have a number of questions about 'how it would be supposed to work'.

So is there a TE out there who would be interested in some discussion and conversation, not an adversarial (that can't be spelt right but alas no spell checker on this silly IE using PC at work) debate. I was thinking either a thread here or in the debate section to avoid mobbing or on YT (my account is Rambleale).

Anyone interested?

Edit: Sry if in wrong section.

 

[Inferno]

Well Theistic evolution at its most basic is just that God guides Evolution. Evolution is sometimes so deterministic that people think only God could have guided it. Is there any evidence for it? No. Is there any evidence against it? No. But the null hypothesis holds. (So: No God needed.)
You might also find one who believes in a Deistic evolution: God created life and then Evolution continued.

In both cases, a debate is unnecessary because there's no evidence for their position, only a conviction. And they'll admit that quite openly. You'd be getting into a discussion about religion and you'd possibly be getting into the position where you have to disprove God.
So once again: Unnecessary. There's nothing that can come out of it.

 

[biology4life]

There's nothing that can come out of it.

Apart from satisfying some of my idle curiosity. I'm just interested in finding out some the detail in what some people believe, beyond the simple 'God guided it'. I'm not expecting or looking for any revelation of truth, or to win anyone over to atheism etc, just a better understanding of the position.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

E-mail Ken Miller?
Teachers/scientists are usually quite easy to talk to.

I think all you'll get is adapted theism, really. God would be quite unrelated to the issue.

 

[Squawk]

Not that I knew much about evolutionary theory in my theistic days, but the basic premise of all god related things was, for me, pretty simple.

1. Erect an entirely natural process that could produce X
2. Steer said natural process in such a direction that Y is produced.

In the case of evolution you just need to posit an end goal, and suggest that god tweaked the mutations in the right direction. It has no impact on evolutionary theory other than the idea of an end goal.

Of course you then butt heads with all kinds of problems, the shocking design of most forms of life, for example, but then that's part of why I'm no longer theist

 

[nemesiss]

an example given to us in the crazy creationist topic

hey m8. i am a Muslim and a student of science as well. I have just seen your video saying give 5 points to convert u..
i can just try to tell u the truth but obviously rest is on u. whether u struggle to seek the truth or not.
so m8, m giving u 4 points as from summery of concept of revolution and 5th point is of my own.
1. We all are connected.
2. Man came into being after revolutionary alterations in animals.
3. further it says animals came into being after revolutionary alterations in microorganisms (unicellular living beings)
4. these unicellular organisms came into being from a DNA and DNA came into being from .. atoms or least u can go to electrons, protons nutrons dutrons.. or.. last is ENERGY.
5. From where this energy came from? Who created that energy? and who ceased that energy to create us?

i give u a simple example mate as we know wood is raw material for making wooden furniture. if we have no wood, how can we make furniture?
and if we have a raw material, even then we need some 1 to convert this raw material to useful material..

"We Are All Connected"
MAN << ANIMALS << CELLS << UNICELLULAR ORGANISMS << DNA << PROTIENS << ATOMS << ELECTRONS, PROTONS NUTRONS ... ETC << ENERGY << ?? (we cant put a fullstop here)

MAN << ANIMALS << CELLS << UNICELLULAR ORGANISMS << DNA << PROTIENS << ATOMS << ELECTRONS, PROTONS NUTRONS ... ETC << ENERGY << SOME ONE

and whos that SOME ONE?
He is God, He is Allah. He is creator of every thing. and He is not like us!!. as some people assume that God means some one like us sitting on hevens.. no Hes not like this..
Thats why we Muslims believe that He is Allah and He is creator of every thing. And he is not like us.. as we are being created and He is a creator!!!

and you can replace allah with jahweh/jesus/thor/zeus/jupiter/my penis/wodan/ etc for the corresponding religion and thats the kind of answer you will get in a nutshell

 

[DepricatedZero]

When I was marginally theistic I simply held that there was no reason the two concepts couldn't co-exist - that if everything natural was created then evolution was a natural process created (not even necessarily guided) by supernatural means. That's why I say I was marginally theistic though, I was never a strong believer to begin with and always leaned towards the natural.

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

You may want to message the user goyne. He left a message on "See someone try to defend creationism honestly" and seems like a very reasonable person.

 

[Andiferous]

Clockwork Universe Theory

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

Try Francis Collins - He headed the Human Gnome Project and is a theist.

 

[biology4life]

Try Francis Collins - He headed the Human Gnome Project and is a theist.

Yeah that's a good idea I'm sure he'll drop everthing :roll:

Just read Goynes comments in that car crash of a thread, I'll PM him later see if he would be interested.

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

Try Francis Collins - He headed the Human Gnome Project and is a theist.

Yeah that's a good idea I'm sure he'll drop everthing :roll:

Just read Goynes comments in that car crash of a thread, I'll PM him later see if he would be interested.

:facepalm: I kind of meant read his books; "The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief" and "Belief: Readings on the Reason for Faith" - but you can try and contact if you want... good luck.

 

[Daealis]

From way back when I still had "the jesus freak" on, I had the guiding-god sort of theistic evolution in my mind. I never conflicted science and faith. Back from when I first heard the primordial soup -theories I've thought that to be the answer for the very beginning. I've never doubted science for eventually leading us to the answers, when I've heard of a new concept filling a void in my knowledge it didn't attack my faith because I didn't fill the unknown with god. God was just a force taking the random out of the process, guiding evolution to the right direction at key tresholds.

I'd make the bold guess that any religious person who holds true a number of scientific concepts has something similar to justify it. God as a force, taking the random out of random. Perhaps to different levels, maybe some feel that the evidence for evolution is enough, but the current proof for abiogenesis are not, etc.

 

[Proteus]

Well Theistic evolution at its most basic is just that God guides Evolution.

Not quite. All theistic evolution - or as Francis Collins would say Bio Logos) - believe that evolution, and everything else which is positively indicated by natural science doesn't conflict with there interpretation of their favorite scriptures. There are theists who believe that God (or an equivalent anthropomorphic deity) simply designed the universe with a set of basic rules which would lead to the formation of stars, heavy elements, planets, ext. and simply watched all these natural processes unfold. Some theists on youtube I would suggest include TogetherForPeace, Albukhshi, kabanethechristian, SirThiestDFR, flowcell, and deistpaladin.

 

[brewpanda]

Creationism is let's be blunt a croc(oduck) of shite and to me frankly rather boring.
I do however have a certain curiostiy about what theistic evolutionists believe, and the range of that belief. I see no need for a god in the explanitory framework of evolutionary biology but I am genuine interested in it how others mighty see that role, I have a number of questions about 'how it would be supposed to work'.

So is there a TE out there who would be interested in some discussion and conversation, not an adversarial (that can't be spelt right but alas no spell checker on this silly IE using PC at work) debate. I was thinking either a thread here or in the debate section to avoid mobbing or on YT (my account is Rambleale).

Anyone interested?

Edit: Sry if in wrong section.

There are also theistic evolutionists who believe that God has no hand in the development of the universe- to the extent that this God may not even be the causal factor for the universe itself, but perhaps caused what predated the universe. This belief may also incorporate the concept that God's involvement in the development of the universe occurred when man (possibly included any other sentient lifeforms) arose, and placed in man the intangible soul. But other than actively creating and inserting souls, God has little to know interaction with the universe itself.

 

[TheGreekDollmaker]

Well Theistic evolution at its most basic is just that God guides Evolution.

You know this is the one thing that always borthered me about the Inteligent Design movement or any arguement about theology that ends with the phrase "God did it"

Even getting aside the whole about which god did it nobody seems to explain to me how god did it.

What,did he mess around with complex mathematics before the start of the universe so he can set the rules or fundementials of the universe.

How did he do that.How did he guide the invevidual cells to envolve into more complex organisms.Did he do it passably or was it devide intervantion.Did he just used his hand to do all of these.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Even getting aside the whole about which god did it nobody seems to explain to me how god did it.
What,did he mess around with complex mathematics before the start of the universe so he can set the rules or fundementials of the universe.
How did he do that.How did he guide the invevidual cells to envolve into more complex organisms.Did he do it passably or was it devide intervantion.Did he just used his hand to do all of these.

Ah yes, my first steps into skepticism. Seems like I was going about trying to prove the bible scientifically the wrong way. Shouldn't have tried to use science.

 

[Mithcoriel]

I always thought that theistic evolution was the default in Europe. At least it was where I lived. We learned about God, and we learned about biology, I read about evolution in a book...it never occurred to me at all that there could be any conflict.
After all, the fact that you grew in your mother's womb and weren't created out of thin air by God directly doesn't make it less likely god doesn't exist, does it?
It's just like god controls coincidence and made the laws of physics, he controls evolution.

 

[brewpanda]

There's nothing that can come out of it.

Apart from satisfying some of my idle curiosity. I'm just interested in finding out some the detail in what some people believe, beyond the simple 'God guided it'. I'm not expecting or looking for any revelation of truth, or to win anyone over to atheism etc, just a better understanding of the position.

What sort of TE are you looking to discuss with? Does the participant you seek necessarily need to believe in an actively hands on deity who causes evolution? Or are you looking for any individual who is a deist/theist in tandum with being an evolutionist, regardless of extent of the interacting role of that deity on evolution?

 

[Trons]

Creationism is let's be blunt a croc(oduck) of shite and to me frankly rather boring.
I do however have a certain curiostiy about what theistic evolutionists believe, and the range of that belief. I see no need for a god in the explanitory framework of evolutionary biology but I am genuine interested in it how others mighty see that role, I have a number of questions about 'how it would be supposed to work'.

So is there a TE out there who would be interested in some discussion and conversation, not an adversarial (that can't be spelt right but alas no spell checker on this silly IE using PC at work) debate. I was thinking either a thread here or in the debate section to avoid mobbing or on YT (my account is Rambleale).

Anyone interested?

Edit: Sry if in wrong section.

I would consider myself a TE, however I believe I am not the kind of theistic evolutionist you're looking for. I say this upfront because I believe I have a firm grasp of the difference between the things I know, the things I believe and the things I have faith in. I am also not a conventional theist. I do not belong to an organized religion mainly because I believe that most organized religions put God in a box.

I'll be more then happy to provide a little history of myself and if you decide I'm not the kind of theist you are looking to discuss this topic with, I'll understand completely.

I was raised, at a young age, as a catholic. I converted to your standard southern baptist while in high school to the point that I almost went to a theological college after high school to become a minister. My life after graduating didn't allow for that course in my life and after careful study and too much experience in different churches, I came to the conclusion that any organized religion I attempted to insert myself in had decided that God was "X" where "X" is what they wanted. I believe that if there is a God, he has got to be beyond definition, beyond our explanation and beyond our understanding.

My brother is an atheist and we have many conversations about the difference between what I know, what I believe and what I have faith in. I would also like to say that when I use the term "know" i am operating under the assumption that my life is not a construct of something other then what I perceive. I operate under this particular assumption because I believe to do anything else would be tantamount to having myself admitted to an asylum.

I feel that I am not the type of theist you would like to discuss because I don't follow mainstream theism. Any point of view I offer would not be that of an organized religion, it would be my point of view and be based on my, dare I say unique, faith structure. I will be more then happy to have an open dialog with you, if you wish, as long as you understand that it may not be what you expect.