Liu Xaiobo jailed for "incitement to subvert state power."

[creamcheese]

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5055977,00.html

Basically this fellow was jailed for up to 11 years for speaking out against the People's Republic of China.

A particularly interesting passage:

"In the weeks leading up to the trial, the European Union and the US had called on China to unconditionally release Liu and "end the harassment and detention" of fellow signatories of the "Charter 08" manifesto.

Beijing reacted angrily to those calls, referring to the EU and US statements as "unacceptable" and representing interference in China's internal affairs.

"China is a country ruled by law," a spokesperson for China's Foreign Ministry had responded. "The fundamental rights of Chinese citizens are guaranteed by the law."

The spokesperson said China's courts acted "independently" and other nations have "no right to interfere.""


I don't dispute the court's verdict, according to PRC law, I have no doubt he was committing a crime. By that reasoning, then yes, other nations have no right to interfere. I personally believe that the government of the PRC is not legitimate, and thus all of its laws are void.

What do you think? Feel free to discuss a broader range of PRC human rights issues, or basically anything at all about your opinion of the government of the PRC.

 

[obsidianavenger]

from the wiki (in reference to claims of human rights abuses, esp censorship):

The PRC government has responded by arguing that the notion of human rights should take into account a country's present level of economic development, and focus more on the people's rights to subsistence and development in poorer countries.[77] The rise in the standard of living, literacy, and life expectancy for the average Chinese in the last three decades is seen by the government as tangible progress made in human rights.[78] Efforts in the past decade to combat deadly natural disasters, such as the perennial Yangtze River floods, and work-related accidents are also portrayed in China as progress in human rights for a still largely poor country.[77]

i think the underlying attitude behind belief in something like "a right to subsistence" is telling. the right to subsistence means the right to take from someone if you are not able to provide for yourself. it means that individual rights are subservient to "the greater good". this is, and always has been, a dangerous attitude. any sort of atrocities can be justified by such a belief.

to jail someone for 11 years... for expressing an opinion is horrifying. i am not sure what you mean by saying that their government is illegitimate, but i would certainly say it is oppressive and in desperate need of reform.

 

[creamcheese]

i am not sure what you mean by saying that their government is illegitimate, but i would certainly say it is oppressive and in desperate need of reform.

They repress alternative views and are not a form of democracy, so their government probably does not reflect the will of the people living in it. This is arguable since the majority of Chinese support their government in many areas, but since the majority of them know nothing else... It doesn't help that Confucius advocated conformity to societal norms, it's kind of a cultural thing.

I've read the wiki, and their justifications are, as you stated, dangerously ambiguous about what they will do to increase GDP.