Life meaningless if athesim is true

[rareblackatheist]

On atheism all of our lives (yes including yours) are a waste. We mean absolutely nothing and our deaths mean nothing. It would be irrelevant what anyone believed or how anyone lived if atheism is true.

What do you say when someone makes that statement or a similar one?

My reply:

This is perhaps the most disgusting thing about Christianity. Projection at it's finest. This is how he would feel if he was an atheist, he's not speaking for atheists, he's speaking for himself. Do you know why he says this? His religious beliefs have made him an ungrateful asshole. Former Indiana Basketball Coach Bob Knight once said: "If rape is inevitable, why not sit back and enjoy it" For me it's like if life is inevitable why not sit back and enjoy it? If I could not help but to be born, and to be a human and have this life, no matter if there is nothing after it, why not enjoy it? So what if there is nothing afterwards? How lucky are we to even be here In the first place? Just go back a few generations in your family tree. If Grandma before she had your mom or dad, or she met another man, or she didn't have sex with your granddad at the exact same time they did, you would not be here. It's the same exact situation with your parents. That had to be the same for many generations before your grandparents too. Even when your parents had sex, the chances of their child being you are very small. Average sperm ejaculation is between 40 million and 1.2 billion. Of all of those, you won. If you had lost, you wouldn't even know it. How could existing out of those odds be waste? For some Christians that still isn't good enough. They need to live forever. On top of that, for me"¦if it wasn't for slavery I would not be here. For me to sit around and complain that I don't get to live forever when my life only came at the expense and suffering of millions of people would be a waste.

Besides that, when did an infinite amount of something become more valuable than scarce amount of something? I just gave you the odds of being born in the first place. How can living forever have more meaning and value than living for a limited time? In sports teams usually play with more urgency and with more meaning when the clock is running out in the 4th quarter than they do in the first quarter. Why? Because the time is way more valuable when there is less of it, than where there is plenty. If every one in America had the ability to make their own legal currency, how valuable would $100 still be a valuable as it is now? No? Why not?

I can't imagine a never ending afterlife that would require the same urgency from me to accomplish goals and stay motivated like a life that I know will end at some point would require. I would love to hear the other side of that argument.

Statements like that reveal imo the reason why believers believe. They fear not existing anymore forever and it scares them. In their minds atheism can't be true only because they can't deal with the consequences of it. Unfortunately for them just because something is uncomfortable to think about doesn't mean that it isn't reality. In order to drown out that uncomfortable feeling, they choose instead the most insane fables and stories of all time, not because they are true, but because it makes them feel safe and snugly.

 

[australopithecus]

I usually tell them to shut the fuck up, because that specific argument doesn't warrant anything more thought out. However if I were to get all verbose I would point out that if the only purpose you assign to life is to worship a god and the end goal is eternal life then your actual life is meaningless as it's just something to be endured. While on the other hand my life, godless as it is, is as meaningful as I wish it to be. As meaning is subjective anyway I can steer it to whatever end game I choose. Death is, and always be, meaningful as it is the end of a life lived. Unless of course you haven't lived because you believe your real life will begin once your brain stops working, though in the case of anyone who would make such an assertion as "Life meaningless if athesim is true." it can be safely assumed that their brain was never firing on all cylinders anyway.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

The author Kurt Vonnegut, in his final book before his Death, wrote about a conversation he had with his son.
He asked his son: "What's the meaning of life?"
And his son responded: "To answer that question."

The only people who can give our life meaning is ourselves. Some people don't want to be great men, the best of the best and the top of the fields in what they do. Some people just want to do what's right for it's own sake. Some people want to be self-indulgent, wealthy, and live a fine life. Some people want to be poets and authors.

Me? I like to take apart explosives that could possibly end the lives of other men, women, and children. It comes with full medical benefits, college, good pay, and the ability to sleep soundly at night. Sadly, I've been removed from that field due to injury and have been placed on a perpetual "on-hold" status until my contract is up.
I'm sure I've got enough money saved up and enough in free college money to find some other purpose in life. :lol:

But, back to the point:
Life is what you make of it. We're here on Earth to fart about and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

[evilotakuneko]

I'd tell them no, it's just the opposite. Life is meaningless if the god of the bible exists, because what significance does the few decades we get on Earth have compared to eternity?

On the other hand if this one life is all we get, we'd best do something useful with it.

 

[Laurens]

I've written on this topic before, so this might be kinda relevant:

"What is the meaning of life?" is probably one of the most profound questions ever to strike our collective conciousness. Even the least philosophically inclined person might ponder this riddle at some stage in their life. Some people profess that there is an absolute meaning and purpose for existence - a meaning that applies to the whole of humanity, whether they agree with it or not. Religion clearly defines an absolute purpose and meaning - that we should devote our lives to some form of God, and appease him/her/it with rituals and liturgy. Religious people will often view those, like myself, who deny what they see as the fundamental reason for existence as believing that life has no meaning whatsoever. I do not believe that life has an absolute meaning, but that does not mean to say that I do not believe life has any subjective meaning. I feel that people make their own meaning, and very often that changes throughout a lifetime.

The very fact that different people arrive at different answers to this fundamental question is proof of its subjective nature. I can see why it can be psychologically pleasing to believe in an absolute meaning of existence. I believe, however, that the truth is more important that what we might find psychologically satisfying.

Humans are a conceited bunch. We feel that we are the reason that the universe exists, despite the fact that we continually discover this not to be the case. We are not separate from the animal kingdom like we once thought, we are the cousins of all life on this planet, not the custodians. Our planet is not even special, every year we discover more and more solar systems like our own. Our star is not special, we have no privileged place in the galaxy, or the universe, we are lost amidst countless stars, and galaxies. To think that our little rock is the sole reason for everything, to me is absurd. Everything we know tells us that we are part of something grander than our forefathers could ever have guessed.

I do not find it a particularly unpleasant thought, in fact it fills me with awe and wonder. How many other intelligent civilizations might there be? - This is the kind of question that gives me goosebumps, and there is much about the cosmos to bring about this feeling; the tremendous beauty of galaxies and nebulae - art on a scale we can scarcely imagine, the vast distances that light travels to reach our eyes, sizes beyond comprehension.

I do not feel that this lack of absolute meaning should plunge us into desperation and hopelessness. We can make our own meaning. Some might think life means religiously watching your favourite football team every weekend, or to find true love and happiness, others might think it should be spend in devotion to God - and that's fine by me.

So, what do I think that the meaning of life is? Firstly I would say that, for me, the meaning of life has always been in a state of flux. I have never had one set meaning that I have adhered to my entire life. At different times my life took on different meanings, and it shall no doubt take on more in future. The following are some things that I feel currently provide meaning to me; giving as much meaning and happiness to other people's lives as I can, speaking out against injustice, acquiring knowledge, spreading truth, and being happy. Then there are more personal things such as music, sunshine, singing, writing, walking, talking, reading, learning, thinking, sitting around a fire at night beneath the stars.

The most important thing to me is to have fun, and enjoy it whilst I'm here. This existence is the only one we can be sure of, I feel its too precious to waste on bended knee to a higher power, or pursing a higher course. We shouldn't bemoan the fact that we will one day cease to exist! The fact that we exist is a wonder in itself, and there are many, many potential people who never got a chance. A life devoid of absolute meaning, is not a meaningless life.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Sure, I'll grant it. Life is meaningless if atheism is "true". So what?

 

[Dogma's Demise]

I guess God's "life" (or existence or whatever you want to call it) has no purpose since he doesn't have a "higher" God to follow. :lol:

 

[atheisthistorian]

Usually when you ask Christians to clarify what they mean by life being meaningless they say it lacks "objective meaning." This is a nonsense term, it's the same as saying dry water, since meaning is by definition subjective. Pardon the redundancy but the word meaning has no meaning apart from subjectivity. What they really mean is that if meaning isn't imposed on their lives by some other being, in this case God, then their lives are worthless because whatever meaning they assign to their lives dies with them. It's hard to unpack all the ways that this sentiment is simultaneously utterly debasing and at the same time arrogant to the point of solipsism.

 

[RedYellow]

Sure, I'll grant it. Life is meaningless if atheism is "true". So what?

But it's not. Part of being alive and being human is that we experience the world through the medium of meaning, the problem is that theists just think there has to be one big source of meaning. Meaning, purpose, etc, these words would still have definitions in a godless world.

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

I could give myself 'purpose' and 'meaning' when I simply describe the geometric properties of the upcoming Venus transit to a fellow human being. No god is needed to give purpose or meaning in that specific context.

I could also find purpose and meaning in trying to do what is in my control to view that specific event. Again, no god is needed to have that particular experience.

That is just one example of many where some sort of 'supreme higher' being is not needed to find either meaning or purpose.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Sure, I'll grant it. Life is meaningless if atheism is "true". So what?

But it's not. Part of being alive and being human is that we experience the world through the medium of meaning, the problem is that theists just think there has to be one big source of meaning. Meaning, purpose, etc, these words would still have definitions in a godless world.

My point is that seeing a negative consequence of X being true doesn't prove that Y is therefore true. It doesn't matter what "negatives" atheism leads to, they don't make any religion true by default.

 

[Visaki]

My point is that seeing a negative consequence of X being true doesn't prove that Y is therefore true. It doesn't matter what "negatives" atheism leads to, they don't make any religion true by default.

That's the same point to many theist "argumenta" like Ben Steins "Science leads to killing people" and Comforts "atheist-Nazis". Even if these are true they do nothing for their theist claim. They are usually red herrings, arguments from emotion and non sequtors.

As for the purpose of life, I believe that there is no supernatural, universal purpose for life but a local purpose, ie. purposes we make for ourselves. In other words, there is no fate but what we make.

 

[rareblackatheist]

My point is that seeing a negative consequence of X being true doesn't prove that Y is therefore true. It doesn't matter what "negatives" atheism leads to, they don't make any religion true by default.

That's the same point to many theist "argumenta" like Ben Steins "Science leads to killing people" and Comforts "atheist-Nazis". Even if these are true they do nothing for their theist claim. They are usually red herrings, arguments from emotion and non sequtors.

As for the purpose of life, I believe that there is no supernatural, universal purpose for life but a local purpose, ie. purposes we make for ourselves. In other words, there is no fate but what we make.

That's exactly how i feel.

 

[tuxbox]

On atheism all of our lives (yes including yours) are a waste. We mean absolutely nothing and our deaths mean nothing. It would be irrelevant what anyone believed or how anyone lived if atheism is true.

What do you say when someone makes that statement or a similar one?

I would first point out that atheism is neither true nor false. Then I would say they obviously do not love their family or friends enough.

 

[nemesiss]

im curious, what standard does that person use to value a (certain) life?
how would someone be able to increase/decrease that value?
what is the standard value, what is the maximum value? is there a minumum value?

would be interesting to see if we can quantify someone's existance...

 

[televator]

There's no illusion that a sky daddy has a purpose for you to fulfill if you're an atheist. But that's just what it is, an illusion, and theists have simply been listening to an internalized sense of meaning that most thought came from a divine source the whole time. It's just as an atheist does, but without the divine myth source.

 

[Sandracottus]

" Thinking about sense objects attaches you to sense objects
Grow attached, you become addicted
Thwart your addiction , you become angry
become angry, you confuse your mind
confuse your mind, you loose the lesson of experience
loose experience, you loose discrimination
Loose discrimination, you miss life's only purpose"

from Samkhya yoga,
Bhagavad Gita,
Mahabharata

 

[CosmicJoghurt]

"You were created for a purpose and if you don't fulfill God's goals for you you're going to eternal HELL!!" doesn't seem like a very tempting offer either.

My life is anything but meaningless - I've defined a general goal (have fun, enjoy myself in the short period that my life will be), and a few more specific goals (e.g learn as much as possible on a variety of subjects, develop something new, share/teach to the next generation). My life has the meaning that I want it to have, and I honestly cannot think of a more profound and intellectually pleasing alternative.

 

[rareblackatheist]

His response:

I am not influenced by your attempt to equate my manhood with responding to 15 plus different comments on your website. I'm glad you felt the need to type at length about three "stupid" sentences and to post them on two different websites to get other's opinion on those three "stupid" sentences. Was it because you weren't satisfied with your own response to the statement? It's good that you felt the need to go so far to refute my statement because it implies something.

My statement was not dependent on my feelings or your feelings. It is just a logical implication that if athiesm is true then human life has absolutely zero ontological value. Our lives would not actualy matter in any real sense. If athiesm is true, than any attempt to attribute meaning, value, or worth to human life would be futile since doing so would just be a subjective illusion. Our lives would ultimately mean nothing. There would be no reason to assume that the unlikelyhood of an individual human's existence is more noteworthy than the unlikely existence of a particular ant or single blade of grass. If everything is here by random and purposeless events then nothing would warrent humans to believe that their existence is somehow more special than that of animals, plants, or objects. The universe will eventually expand to the point where there will be no planets, stars, plants, animals, or people. And the history and value of each would be ultimately worthless. So if one would like he could go ahead and enjoy life since he has it but if athiesm is true then his life is actually worthless anyway. It would be no better or worse for him to enjoy life than for him to end it with a bullet in his head.

On another point I never said that living forever in of itself makes life more meaningful or that infinite automatically means valuable in principle. so your points on these are irrelevant since all you did was present a strawman.

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

It appears that your respondent's words are filled with baseless assertions and down right arrogance. It could be a worthwhile exercise to point this out to him. Point by point of course......... Depending on the nature of your respondent, it could be a good time to contact a lawyer before proceeding as internet harassment and stalking seems to be the norm these days.