Life depends on matter, energy, and information


Well-Known Member
It's true, and there are even (albeit very, very rare) instances of Creationists' criticism being valid, but that's really a function of the amount of shit tossed about. Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day, so Creationists have quite some work to do before they can attain the heady heights of broken clock levels of accuracy.

I do wish they'd stop pretending to credibility though when their actions have demolished any hope of being seen as legitimately interested parties.

People like Jireh here embody the foundational problem with Creationism. It's all about deceit. They actually think that repeated mendacity is going to net some long-term positive result, whereas the exact opposite is true. They're scientifically illiterate and hostile to science, but pretend that their criticisms are motivated by an aspiration to improve scientific understanding.

The fact is that they don't just fail at science, logic and reason - they can't even do their own religion right, which is why there are Christians and there are Creationists. Why exactly is all the focus on science? Because deep down, the simple fact is that their faith is insufficient - they can't justify their beliefs to any degree of considered scrutiny - it amounts to nothing more than idolatrous belief in a written tract from 2000 years ago. They unconsciously recognize the legitimacy and utility of science but can't bear to deal with their own cognitive dissonance, so they have to try to tear everything else down to lend themselves pretense that their own sordid beliefs stand up to the test. If they brought a fraction of a percent of scrutiny to their own beliefs, a fraction of a percent of the critical analysis they laughably try with science, they'd quickly find how impoverished their world-view actually is. And deep down, they know it, which is why the constant flailing about, pretending they are experts at anatomy, cellular biology, cosmology etc. etc. etc. when the real failure is within themselves.

That failure is ultimately hubris: -take our mendacious little friend here:

Jireh - 'the Lord has seen'
Elshamah - 'The Presence of God'

I mean, for fuck's sakes, get the fuck over yourself already. Not only does Otangelo believe that his ignorance should be the yardstick for the acceptance and validation of knowledge, but he also wants to be seen as some kind of fucking prophet, doing God's work. He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy! If Yahweh is real and Otangelo's the best God's got to offer, then you have to wonder how the fuck 'He' managed to create the universe, complexity, or anything by ordered intent.

Even the latest name is a parody - rationalist? - "a person who bases their opinions and actions on reason and knowledge rather than on religious belief or emotional response." Give me a fucking break, that's the exact antithesis to Otangelo's fundamentalist motivation.

What a sorry waste of life.

We are Borg

Staff member
With Aron, all that flies is BS. That's why he is an atheist, after all.

Well no we as Atheists have it easy we do not have to believe in a book or worship that book, a book that for creationists always needs to be true. If and only if the Bible was true account what happened in the past then your God is a prick, plain and simple. Even if the Bible was not true God would remain a prick trough out that book.


Well-Known Member
Wow. What deep thoughtful comments you make. Years upon years of doing this, and really all you're admitting is that you're motivated by bigotry and hatred. Good Christian values, amirite?
Actually, I do believe rationalist is practicing Christianity as it is taught in the Bible. One of the things I find the most annoying is how people conflate being a Christian with being a good person. They are not the same thing by most measures. In fact, I would argue that most Christians are good despite their religion.


Staff member
Most Christians are good people, I agree with that, but I think it's because they don't really believe the things they say they do. Contentious point, I admit, but I'm pretty much convinced it's the case at this point.


Well-Known Member
Most people are basically good people; but there's a whole bunch of caveats there when it comes to subconscious motivations, particularly when it's dealing with deeply held beliefs and perceived out-groups to those values. Otangelo here spends far too much of his life chasing strangers around the internet to batter ineffectually at them believing somehow that he's doing good. I expect the reality is that nothing he's ever done on the internet is good in any identifiable way. But I'd bet he's good to his family and loved ones.

Human apes - we have the capacity for great goodness and terrible evil all wrapped up into one lump of only partially self-aware individual. We're a pretty frightening and sometimes tragic species, and that's coming from someone who's spent their life studying humans.